Prophylactic Thread for Enhanced bodybuilding

[MattDamon47]

I feel like it would be extremely beneficial to put together a list of any and all prophylactics for Enhanced users. I know there are a lot of intelligent people on this forum that could assist me in building this list. We can even designate based on class. Herbal, prescription etc. Blood pressure: Carditone (herbal) Helps keep me drop ten points lower on each of my readings. So for anyone that's just slightly out of range or anyone wishing to add to there prescription regimen without upping said prescription can also benefit. Lipids: Carderine ( research chem) I've seen in my own bloodwork just how much this can improve lipids. I find it's really beneficial when you're trying to clean out on a cruise and get markers respectable. Plus the sense of well being and workout increase are great. But I would keep doses low and only run for 4-6 weeks to be on the safe side of the cancer data.

 

[MattDamon47]

I look forward to everyone's responses!

 

[lukiss96]

Interesting thread. I don't have much to say now I guess.

However, I use cialis for blood pressure management. I take 10mg every other day and it helps me to keep it close to 130/80, without it I notice I reach 140's.

However, I have to note that my current weight is heavier than ideal and my body fat is 20% which is far from ideal too. When I reach lower weight and maintain 12-15% body fat I usually notice I can stop taking cialis or still take it to drive down BP to 120's/80.

 

[effswithtren]

A prophylactic with the listed side effect of “systemic cancer” is more than a little ironic.

 

[buzzingonaas]

Disagree with cardarine as a prophylactic. From what I know, there is not enough research to find it worth the risk, and some to suggest it may be dangerous.

As for my own: Telmisartan for blood pressure, metformin for blood glucose, Red yeast rice for lipids, TUDCA, NAC, and glutathione for liver.

 

[MattDamon47]

I can agree on the Carderine. But for me I have found it to be a handy tool for getting cholesterol in check in a hurry then coming off and using diet and natural supplements to continue the benefits. From what I’ve read on carderine I can say for myself I don’t feel I’m putting myself at any higher risk then I already am I’m with the anabolics etc. But I must emphasize that it’s a calculated risk and I can never be sure.

 

[Rido]

I don't think Ben Affleck would approve of your steroid use Matt Damon

 

[MattDamon47]

I feel that (Baby Asprin) has a place in enhanced bodybuilding. Even if Platelets aren’t high, as far as I can see it would only offer benefits. Thoughts?

 

[MattDamon47]

I don't think Ben Affleck would approve of your steroid use Matt Damon

Well he doesn’t have to know now does he. It’s none of Bens business what I do with my body!

 

[Type-IIx]

Prophylaxis with drugs and even certain supplements is just never a good idea for enhanced bodybuilding because of unintended consequences.

If you guys could just see how many guys I work with that come in to me with diastolic hypotension (increased risk of heart failure) because they're unnecessarily using antihypertensive agents (including dietary supplements & drugs) that combine unfavorably when they don't need them, e.g., PDE-5 inhibitors (e.g., Cialis), nitrates (e.g., Beetroot extract), L-arginine, ARBs, ACE inhibitors, & β-antagonists ("β blockers"), you'd be amazed.

Isolated diastolic hypotension, but often also with systolic hypotension as well, is virtually universal in well-intentioned bodybuilders at present because of these gurus promoting these drugs for prophylaxis and ridiculous, microscopic effects in rodents that they purport benefits hypertrophy based purely on surmise and their own leaps of faith.

ARBs/ACE inhibitors come with renal risks, too, especially in combination with certain drugs. It is necessary to monitor kidney function (i.e., creatinine, eGFR, & electrolytes) with any dose changes. If you're using these for actual chronic hypertension as you should, then the treatment target is a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120/60 mmHg). Lower is not better.

 

[buzzingonaas]

Prophylaxis with drugs and even certain supplements is just never a good idea for enhanced bodybuilding because of unintended consequences.

If you guys could just see how many guys I work with that come in to me with diastolic hypotension (increased risk of heart failure) because they're unnecessarily using antihypertensive agents (including dietary supplements & drugs) that combine unfavorably when they don't need them, e.g., PDE-5 inhibitors (e.g., Cialis), nitrates (e.g., Beetroot extract), L-arginine, ARBs, ACE inhibitors, & β-antagonists ("β blockers"), you'd be amazed.

Isolated diastolic hypotension, but often also with systolic hypotension as well, is virtually universal in well-intentioned bodybuilders at present because of these gurus promoting these drugs for prophylaxis and ridiculous, microscopic effects in rodents that they purport benefits hypertrophy based purely on surmise and their own leaps of faith.

ARBs/ACE inhibitors come with renal risks, too, especially in combination with certain drugs. It is necessary to monitor kidney function (i.e., creatinine, eGFR, & electrolytes) with any dose changes. If you're using these for actual chronic hypertension as you should, then the treatment target is a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120/60 mmHg). Lower is not better.

This is interesting. Why would a range closer to 110/60 (nothing below 100 or above 130 systolic) not be more appropriate as that’s more mid range perfect and 130/80 could be considered high?

 

[Type-IIx]

This is interesting. Why would a range closer to 110/60 (nothing below 100 or above 130 systolic) not be more appropriate as that’s more mid range perfect and 130/80 could be considered high?

Not that interesting. On what do you base this judgment of "mid range perfect?" From where I sit, it looks like you're just applying a "lower is better" standard (which is incorrect).

If you need a reference for this apparently interesting view: Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users - MESO-Rx

 

[buzzingonaas]

Not that interesting. On what do you base this judgment of "mid range perfect?" From where I sit, it looks like you're just applying a "lower is better" standard (which is incorrect).

If you need a reference for this apparently interesting view: Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users - MESO-Rx

Interesting because my cardiologist considers 130 to be elevated? And you are suggesting that it is better to be, by most medical professionals’ opinions, elevated, rather than not elevated.

 

[Inspired]

Interesting because my cardiologist considers 130 to be elevated? And you are suggesting that it is better to be, by most medical professionals’ opinions, elevated, rather than not elevated.

Well, they keep on revising the numbers downward, presumably to sell more blood pressure drugs. 130 is likely ok.

 

[MattDamon47]

Prophylaxis with drugs and even certain supplements is just never a good idea for enhanced bodybuilding because of unintended consequences.

If you guys could just see how many guys I work with that come in to me with diastolic hypotension (increased risk of heart failure) because they're unnecessarily using antihypertensive agents (including dietary supplements & drugs) that combine unfavorably when they don't need them, e.g., PDE-5 inhibitors (e.g., Cialis), nitrates (e.g., Beetroot extract), L-arginine, ARBs, ACE inhibitors, & β-antagonists ("β blockers"), you'd be amazed.

Isolated diastolic hypotension, but often also with systolic hypotension as well, is virtually universal in well-intentioned bodybuilders at present because of these gurus promoting these drugs for prophylaxis and ridiculous, microscopic effects in rodents that they purport benefits hypertrophy based purely on surmise and their own leaps of faith.

ARBs/ACE inhibitors come with renal risks, too, especially in combination with certain drugs. It is necessary to monitor kidney function (i.e., creatinine, eGFR, & electrolytes) with any dose changes. If you're using these for actual chronic hypertension as you should, then the treatment target is a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120/60 mmHg). Lower is not better.

Interesting! So you're saying your seeing a high instance of HYPOtension with people that have come to you? From either overuse or complete misuse of ARBs etc. Do you think there is a place for these drugs if used in the right circumstances?

 

[Type-IIx]

Interesting because my cardiologist considers 130 to be elevated? And you are suggesting that it is better to be, by most medical professionals’ opinions, elevated, rather than not elevated.

It's a bit elevated indeed, but should not be treated by drugs.

 

[Type-IIx]

Interesting! So you're saying your seeing a high instance of HYPOtension with people that have come to you? From either overuse or complete misuse of ARBs etc. Do you think there is a place for these drugs if used in the right circumstances?

Very frequent cases of diastolic hypotension, yes - from misusing ACE inhibitors/ARBs usually. Of course I think these are excellent drugs to treat chronic hypertension!

 

[Raz101]

Prophylaxis with drugs and even certain supplements is just never a good idea for enhanced bodybuilding because of unintended consequences.

If you guys could just see how many guys I work with that come in to me with diastolic hypotension (increased risk of heart failure) because they're unnecessarily using antihypertensive agents (including dietary supplements & drugs) that combine unfavorably when they don't need them, e.g., PDE-5 inhibitors (e.g., Cialis), nitrates (e.g., Beetroot extract), L-arginine, ARBs, ACE inhibitors, & β-antagonists ("β blockers"), you'd be amazed.

Isolated diastolic hypotension, but often also with systolic hypotension as well, is virtually universal in well-intentioned bodybuilders at present because of these gurus promoting these drugs for prophylaxis and ridiculous, microscopic effects in rodents that they purport benefits hypertrophy based purely on surmise and their own leaps of faith.

ARBs/ACE inhibitors come with renal risks, too, especially in combination with certain drugs. It is necessary to monitor kidney function (i.e., creatinine, eGFR, & electrolytes) with any dose changes. If you're using these for actual chronic hypertension as you should, then the treatment target is a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120/60 mmHg). Lower is not better.

Thanks for sharing this, very informative. Sorry to hijack the thread a little here, however do you have any similar posts related to diastolic hypotension? Currently back on my trt dose (150mg) and 40mcg clen a day, on my last blast I was taking telmisartan to help control my BP as it ranged from 140-160 / 60-80 and brought it into a healthy range. However now I've been off the temisartan a few weeks (ceased it shortly after my last blast dose) and I can't get my diastolic to budge over 60. Majority of my readings are 115-120 / 50-58. I suspect clen may be playing a part here as I've never really had a diastolic this low. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks for sharing this, very informative. Sorry to hijack the thread a little here, however do you have any similar posts related to diastolic hypotension? Currently back on my trt dose (150mg) and 40mcg clen a day, on my last blast I was taking telmisartan to help control my BP as it ranged from 140-160 / 60-80 and brought it into a healthy range. However now I've been off the temisartan a few weeks (ceased it shortly after my last blast dose) and I can't get my diastolic to budge over 60. Majority of my readings are 115-120 / 50-58. I suspect clen may be playing a part here as I've never really had a diastolic this low. Any insight would be appreciated.

Decreased diastolic blood pressure is a class effect of β2 agonists.

Class effects of β2 agonists
Biochemical and haemodynamic changes; basic
- ↑HR
- ↑BP (systolic) [in combination with ↑HR, indicates sympathomimetic]
- ↓K (serum)
- ↑glucose (serum)
- ↑insulin (serum)

Cardiovascular changes; detailed
* increases in heart rate and systolic blood pressure, decreases in diastolic blood pressure and shortening of the systolic time intervals (STIs), heart rate corrected duration of electromechanical systole (QS2c) and pre-ejection period (PEP; as a measure of inotropism)...
- ↑HR
- ↑BP (systolic) [in combination with ↑HR, indicates sympathomimetic]
- ↓BP (diastolic)
- ↓systolic time intervals (STIs) [shortening of STIs]
- ↓electromechanical systole duration (QS₂c) [HR-corrected value]
- ↓pre-ejection period (PEP) [ionotropism]

See: Clenbuterol focus: Practical Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols

 

[Zeus45]

Decreased diastolic blood pressure is a class effect of β2 agonists.

Class effects of β2 agonists
Biochemical and haemodynamic changes; basic
- ↑HR
- ↑BP (systolic) [in combination with ↑HR, indicates sympathomimetic]
- ↓K (serum)
- ↑glucose (serum)
- ↑insulin (serum)

Cardiovascular changes; detailed
* increases in heart rate and systolic blood pressure, decreases in diastolic blood pressure and shortening of the systolic time intervals (STIs), heart rate corrected duration of electromechanical systole (QS2c) and pre-ejection period (PEP; as a measure of inotropism)...
- ↑HR
- ↑BP (systolic) [in combination with ↑HR, indicates sympathomimetic]
- ↓BP (diastolic)
- ↓systolic time intervals (STIs) [shortening of STIs]
- ↓electromechanical systole duration (QS₂c) [HR-corrected value]
- ↓pre-ejection period (PEP) [ionotropism]

See: Clenbuterol focus: Practical Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols

Are you against TUDCA <1000mg year round for liver support?