Proviron with PCT?

[Bucky]

I've been searching different forums and get the usual conflicting advice. Anyone here ran provi during PCT? Actual experience. Not what you read or heard. I'm considering it as an option more for the mental/sexual side of things if nothing else. Thanks

 

[mands]

Proviron should not be ran during PCT if you want to fully recover.

mands

 

[Bucky]

Thanks Mands. I was getting information that it doesn't affect you as much as AAS. In some of the other forums I came across via google, guys recommended 25-50mg/day during PCT. I am going to steer away from it as I want to maximize my recovery this winter.

 

[4leafclover]

You can use proviron to kick start your pct, just as you would use HCG. I have used proviron for this, and only this year am I going to try HCG for my next cycle's ending. The main reason is that me and my coach want to keep me on HCG after PCT as the "bridge", saving HGH for when I need it.

I used proviron like this, 3 days after last test Prop pin, start 10 days of proviron 1 tab a day, last 3 days of proviron use, start double nolva, 1 clomid tab. 1 week after double nolva tab, take it down to 1 tab of nolva, continue 1 clomid. 1 nolva, 1 clomid for 3 more weeks.

I do intermediate cycle doses, for very extended periods (16-22 weeks) and have never had a problem recovering using the above.

 

[mands]

If you are running 10 days of proviron you are just delaying your start of PCT. If you want to extend your cycle by 10 days then go ahead and run the Proviron.

mands

 

[Voltrader]

I don't see the benefit here in running Proviron into PCT. It just continues to suppress. @4leafclover Just asking how does Proviron "kickstart" PCT.

 

[Docd187123]

You can use proviron to kick start your pct, just as you would use HCG. I have used proviron for this, and only this year am I going to try HCG for my next cycle's ending. The main reason is that me and my coach want to keep me on HCG after PCT as the "bridge", saving HGH for when I need it.

I used proviron like this, 3 days after last test Prop pin, start 10 days of proviron 1 tab a day, last 3 days of proviron use, start double nolva, 1 clomid tab. 1 week after double nolva tab, take it down to 1 tab of nolva, continue 1 clomid. 1 nolva, 1 clomid for 3 more weeks.

I do intermediate cycle doses, for very extended periods (16-22 weeks) and have never had a problem recovering using the above.

That's just delaying your recovery like Mands said not helping it or kick starting PCT.

You don't really know if you've recovered if you do bloods 2wks post PCT.

 

[4leafclover]

It's the same as HCG used in the upper doses, which is also suppressive. Uses of 20-25MG have been shown to be non-suppresive, sure it has a minimal impact on LH kick start, but keeps libido up, and has a great impact on mood.

I was just answering the guys question if you could use it in PCT, which you can. Is this the best way? Probably not.

 

[4leafclover]

That's just delaying your recovery like Mands said not helping it or kick starting PCT.

You don't really know if you've recovered if you do bloods 2wks post PCT.

I don't always wait 2 weeks after, depends on how aggressive my cycles are. I have been off for 3 months now, post PCT and will get bloods shortly. Stop over generalizing when you don't know me.

 

[Docd187123]

I don't always wait 2 weeks after, depends on how aggressive my cycles are. I have been off for 3 months now, post PCT and will get bloods shortly. Stop over generalizing when you don't know me.

You're talking about me over generalizing when you call blood work right after PCT, when still hyper excreting LH from SERM treatment a sign of recovery? Pot meet kettle.

 

[4leafclover]

You're talking about me over generalizing when you call blood work right after PCT, when still hyper excreting LH from SERM treatment a sign of recovery? Pot meet kettle.

That is not a generalization, you saying I always do 2 weeks is. Do you know what generalization means?

Sorry, but what are your qualifications exactly? My coach who guides me manages countless pros, and amateurs in body building. I'll follow his advice before I take some internet pro's advice...

Pot meet fryer...

 

[Docd187123]

That is not a generalization, you saying I always do 2 weeks is. Do you know what generalization means?

Where did I say you always do 2 weeks?

Where are you getting this information? Me and my coach have had me tested right after I finish pct, o I can start another cycle. He has done this for thousands of people, and never once indicated that longer would reveal any changes once you have "recovered" to normal baseline.

The only thing that has stopped us, is if my test has shown that I haven't yet recovered.

You're talking about me over generalizing when you call blood work right after PCT, when still hyper excreting LH from SERM treatment a sign of recovery? Pot meet kettle.

You'll note I used your own words. Reading comprehension maybe? And yes, generalization is an easy word...kind of how you "generalize recovery" to mean any blood work with normal TT results, even those with ARTIFICIALLY high TT.

Sorry, but what are your qualifications exactly? My coach who guides me manages countless pros, and amateurs in body building. I'll follow his advice before I take some internet pro's advice...

My qualifications are that I can read and also understand exponential decay. This is basic chemistry and pharmacokinetics. If you do not understand them I can PM you links and references as to why you and your coach are incorrect.

"My coach......" This is basically saying I know a guy who knows a guy who used to.... It means nothing and is proof of nothing besides he's had success getting people on stage. When that developed into him being an expert on the endocrine system and chemistry/pharmacology is beyond me but apparently it happened somewhere in your post. You may well enjoy his advice and benefit from it, and I'm sure he has some decent training and diet advice, but I would rather get my medical advice from SpongeBob than someone who believes you can accurately gauge recovery of the HPTA right after finishing PCT.

Pot meet fryer...

Your fryer was empty. No oil. Try again.

 

[4leafclover]

You do know that 65% of clomid and nolva is gone by the end of the 2nd week of discontinued use. So hyper excrete is incorrect. Not going to argue with someone who clearly has no practical experience other than stating you can read. Good job.

 

[Docd187123]

You do know that 65% of clomid and nolva is gone by the end of the 2nd week of discontinued use. So hyper excrete is incorrect. Not going to argue with someone who clearly has no practical experience other than stating you can read. Good job.

More like 75% has been metabolized since their half lives are 5-7days. But you are aware that even after this much has been metabolized that the clinical effects of the higher serum levels are still present for a few days longer. Meaning you will still be hyperexcreting. I've seen it verified via blood work, people with TT over 1000ng/dL 4-5wks post PCT and when they do bloods several weeks or months later their TT is down to ~500ng/dL. That's twice as long as your 'end of the 2nd week 65%' statement and they are still hyperexcreting.

I said I can read bc that's all that's needed to see what's really going on here. Practical experience isn't necessary but I do have that as well. Either way, you relied on the "my coach said so" argument and doesn't that indicate you have no practical experience yourself since you're deferring to a 3rd party?

Anyway, I apologize for my condescending tone but I have a paper to write and a training session to get to so I too will bow out of this disagreement since I don't see a constructive resolution to it.

Stay healthy brother.

 

[4leafclover]

Your arguing is stupid, you hijacked this guys thread to debate something he didn't even ask about. Sorry OP...

 

[thedudebro]

SO CAN YOU USE IT DURING PCT FOR LIBIDO, OR NOT!???

 

[Docd187123]

WHY ARE YOU YELLING?? USE YOUR INSIDE VOICE DAMMIT

 

[mands]

SO CAN YOU USE IT DURING PCT FOR LIBIDO, OR NOT!???

Wait, what? Proviron?

mands

 

[Big_poppa_Bren]

No. It's suppressive. Proviron on cycle only!!!

 

[Dr JIM]

It's the same as HCG used in the upper doses, which is also suppressive.

It's certainly not the same as HCG from an endocrine perspective bc HCG enhances Leydig cell function and reverses testicular atrophy, while Proviron has none of these "benefits".

Moreover any dose of Proviron (or any other AAS for that matter) that does not inhibit LH secretion is worthless as an anabolic agent, and you don't need anecdotes to prove this point bc they reasonably well documented in the literature as Doc D already mentioned.

Finally the benefit of Proviron mediated SHBG/DHT off loading are greatly diminished bc DHT levels are proportionally decreased along with TT during PCT. The net effect being SHBG clings to whatever DHT remains bound with even greater affinity during PCT.

Is there really any benefit to "priming or front loading" PCT with Proviron? Nope.