Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[Dkland]

I was taking both tirz and metformin together at one point. Stopped the tirz kept the metformin and then dropped the metformin too so if its dangerous this is news to me

If you don’t mind me asking, did you have your A1c checked pre and post? I’m curious how much it brings it down, and over what time period?
Thanks!

 

[17SS]

If you don’t mind me asking, did you have your A1c checked pre and post? I’m curious how much it brings it down, and over what time period?
Thanks!

Tirz alone brought mine down from 5.6 to 5.0 over the past 7 months.

 

[gburdell]

Considering I've never seen it anywhere that wasn't in pharm grade form, I am guessing there is a reason for that.

Cool Achieve used to sell it, back when they were in busines...

One thing that I wasn't expecting was that the EPO was already reconstituted.

 

[UncleBuns]

I was taking both tirz and metformin together at one point. Stopped the tirz kept the metformin and then dropped the metformin too so if its dangerous this is news to me

Combining Tirz and metformin is not dangerous. If you are sensitive to them you could get a bit hypoglycemic but that's about it.

 

[Dkland]

Tirz alone brought mine down from 5.6 to 5.0 over the past 7 months.

Thanks for the info! That’s a huge improvement.

 

[bigMoJo]

You have to cycle it; otherwise, you’ll desensitize your GLP/GLP-1 receptors over time. Why not use it during the cut and switch to metformin during the bulk?

Dug,
A lot of the info you're posting is incorrect and may actually cause others harm. You need stop making posts like this and make sure you understand the research & evidence.

"Switching" is not that simple with these GLPs and glucose control medications like metformin. This is a complex dance that, admittedly, I don't understand well enough to comment on. But so far, I do know, it's not that simple.

Further, you need to check @Ghoul's posts and many of the other members who provide documented evidence on the efficacy of "cycling" GLPs... it's adverse to what you suggest.

 

[DECLAN]

Dug,
A lot of the info you're posting is incorrect and may actually cause others harm. You need stop making posts like this and make sure you understand the research & evidence.

"Switching" is not that simple with these GLPs and glucose control medications like metformin. This is a complex dance that, admittedly, I don't understand well enough to comment on. But so far, I do know, it's not that simple.

Further, you need to check @Ghoul's posts and many of the other members who provide documented evidence on the efficacy of "cycling" GLPs... it's adverse to what you suggest.

Are you guys suggesting people with no blood glucose problems or diabetes need to be on glps all the time? What if you don’t need it anymore? Ghoul just provides whatever studies but no specific guidelines from his experience or anecdotes from guys who did.

Most of guys here switched compounds when efficacy decreased or stopped. Most of the gymbros use glps to help in cuts because mainly of the appetite suppression and not the other ways it helps in fat loss. However, once they achieved their goals they need to stop so they can go to the growth phase.

I followed most of the guys who used glps since the beginning of it’s existence here in Meso, the only people who are on it all the time I think are the fatties and diabetics. Correct me if I’m wrong, maybe there are some doing it the Chase Iron way, who knows.

 

[Middus]

Are you guys suggesting people with no blood glucose problems or diabetes need to be on glps all the time? What if you don’t need it anymore? Ghoul just provides whatever studies but no specific guidelines from his experience or anecdotes from guys who did.

Most of guys here switched compounds when efficacy decreased or stopped. Most of the gymbros use glps to help in cuts because mainly of the appetite suppression and not the other ways it helps in fat loss. However, once they achieved their goals they need to stop so they can go to the growth phase.

I followed most of the guys who used glps since the beginning of it’s existence here in Meso, the only people who are on it all the time I think are the fatties and diabetics. Correct me if I’m wrong, maybe there are some doing it the Chase Iron way, who knows.

He's saying starting and stopping is increasingly (anecdotally) linked to a lack of effect/response later on. So If you use it for a cut and stop now, don't expect it to just work the same way next time you want to use it for a cut

 

[DECLAN]

He's saying starting and stopping is increasingly (anecdotally) linked to a lack of effect/response later on. So If you use it for a cut and stop now, don't expect it to just work the same way next time you want to use it for a cut

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

 

[DECLAN]

I wish someone made an actual log, so we can learn from it.

 

[Middus]

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

I said anecdotally lol. If you are looking for studies It will be hard.., They're still studying effects of mega doses, other long term effects, post therapy weight gain, e.t.c. Some drugs like reta aren't even out yet, but yeah.
Using myself as an example, I do not have appetite suppression from GLPs. Never had. Doesn't mean they don't work. Just means that part of the GLP mechanism doesn't work for me.

 

[iris]

I wish someone made an actual log, so we can learn from it.

I remember you saying you are a member of other forums, that may be more focussed on training and specific topics.
What do they say there?
You (and maybe others, here) must have come across how glps are used and perceived on a different platform than Meso.
No?

 

[bigMoJo]

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

Declan,

We're on the same page bro. The questions you are asking are exactly the same questions I have been looking into, ergo my previous post.

There is MORE info that needs to be deduced before, IMO, someone can just tell another, "Cycle" GLPs, unless they just want to "wing-ding" it and "see what happens" versus "know what happens."

 

[DECLAN]

Declan,

We're on the same page bro. The questions you are asking are exactly the same questions I have been looking into, ergo my previous post.

There is MORE info that needs to be deduced before, IMO, someone can just tell another, "Cycle" GLPs, unless they just want to "wing-ding" it and "see what happens" versus "know what happens."

I said anecdotally lol. If you are looking for studies It will be hard.., They're still studying effects of mega doses, other long term effects, post therapy weight gain, e.t.c. Some drugs like reta aren't even out yet, but yeah.
Using myself as an example, I do not have appetite suppression from GLPs. Never had. Doesn't mean they don't work. Just means that part of the GLP mechanism doesn't work for me.

Understood. I am just trying to find out who actually did experience the lessening of effects when they stopped. So, anyone has the proper protocol on how bodybuilders should use this.

Maybe @Ghoul has data on how this should be done for bodybuilding, I only see how it is used and the basics from YouTube videos but no in-depth comments about it.

 

[Middus]

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

Just to add, I tend to keep the more of my "educated guess" conclusions to my self, lest i be attacked like some dude was on my neck some months ago.
I happen to be in the school of thought that sees nothing wrong in stopping and restarting. Many times what people feel is 'effect' of a glp working is how much "food noise" or "Appetite suppression" in between meals they get. When the feelz is not as much as before, it is interpreted as lack of effect and not that the body has perhaps adjusted to that part. Appetite suppression is but one part of activity. When reta first came, may people assumed reta was bunk because their appetites shot up and they had food cravings. Now we all know better. Some people have even tried to out eat reta and have failed.
Anyway, it's just a school of thought.
As you said, someone (or people) need(s) to properly document or take a log, so we can assess these anecdotes.

 

[Sampei]

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

I can attest it on myself, I stopped sema for quite a long time, tried it again after 6+ months and at a dosage that previously was killing my appetite I could eat a cow no problem the second time.

 

[Ghoul]

Is there actual evidence for these? By how much, any data?

Any idea what is going to decrease? Side effects or efficacy? Is there a way around it?

I am wondering if anyone experienced it or they are just basing it off studies again.

No offense but we know things don’t often translate to real life because of the way our group use these drugs. Just look at how we always thought about receptors and feels reports.

Yes, I have experienced it first hand, years ago, along with others with me experiencing a similar effect. It was so much weaker than my first "cycle", I was under the impression my second batch of Semaglutide was bunk, yet 2 others using it for the first time disproved that impression.

This was years before I came across other's anecdotes of similar experiences.

Then during a study of Tirz, researchers noticed a subset of subjects who had used short acting (diabetic treatment) GLPs and stopped, years before, uniformly had a weaker response to Tirz.

Now here and there clinicians will mention their patients hit a plateau and take a "break" to "reset" what they think is tolerance, a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the drug works. Again, like a "diet pill", and not a hormone. Only when they return, higher doses are required to recover the same level of weight loss.

This is hardly going to draw a lot of "high powered" research when there's a list a mile long of other aspects of these compounds waiting to be looked more deeply into. Just like you shouldn't expect research on the effects of stacking Reta and Sema or any other non-pharma protocol any time soon.

As for "it stopped working", did it? "Stopped working" means regaining the weight lost while on the same dose, and I don't hear that. In fact, the 3-4 year extended clinical trial phases of Tirz & Sema, with more than 10,000 subjects show nothing like that happening.

I keep using this analogy because all the clinical evidence and patient experience aligns with this.

GLP class drugs lower your metabolic "thermostat" on a dose dependent basis. When that weight "setting" is approached, appetite suppression weakens, then stops. But if you regain weight, on the same dose, appetite suppression returns as the body regulates appetite to return to homeostasis. This is why users of a maintainance dose maintain the same weight (roughly) for years, without further appetite suppression or side effects. It's not a diet pill. To lose more, increase the dose, the "setting" is lowered further, and appetite suppression returns until weight drops to whatever equilibrium level for the new dose is reached.

As to whether the observed weakening effect is only related to appetite or the other health benefits as well, that's a compete unknown. It'll probobly be years before we get answers as to how and who this affects. Diabetics aren't jumping on and off, so there's not much to be discovered with them. Pharma weight loss users aren't typically starting and stopping repeatedly. They either get to a maintenance dose as advised in the prescribing instructions, or they just come off.

And intentionally doing this to subjects when the research is of a potential harm will make it hard to get approved.

I will say this. The "failure" rate and "non responders", seem to be exponentially higher among the "do it yourself" crowd than those on the pharma protocols.

 

[Dirthand]

I was taking both tirz and metformin together at one point. Stopped the tirz kept the metformin and then dropped the metformin too so if its dangerous this is news to me

I am taking both atm.. no problems

 

[DECLAN]

Yes, I have experienced it first hand, years ago, along with others experiencing a similar effect. It was so much weaker than my first "cycle", I was under the impression my second batch of Semaglutide was bunk, yet 2 others using it for the first time disproved that impression.

This was years before I came across other's anecdotes of similar experiences.

Then during a study of Tirz, researchers noticed a subset if subjects who had used short acting GLPs and stopped, years before, uniformly had a weaker response to Tirz.

Now here and there clinicians will mention their patients hit a plateau and take a "break" to "reset" what they think is tolerance, a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the drug works. Again, like a "diet pill", and not a hormone. Only when they return, higher doses are required to recover the same level of weight loss.

This is hardly going to draw a lot of "high powered" research when there's a list a mile long of other aspects of these compounds waiting to be looked more deeply into. Just like you shouldn't expect research on the effects of stacking Reta and Sema or any other non-pharma protocol any time soon.

As for "it stopped working", did it? "Stopped working" means regaining the weight lost while on the same dose, and I don't hear that. In fact, the long term extended clinical trial phases with more than 10,000 subjects show nothing like that happening.

I keep using this analogy because all the clinical evidence and patient experience aligns with this.

GLP class drugs lower your metabolic "thermostat" on a dose dependent basis. When that weight "setting" is approached, appetite suppression weakens, then stops. But if you regain weight, on the same dose, appetite suppression returns as the body regulates appetite to return to homeostasis. This is why users of a maintainance dose maintain the same weight (roughly) for years, without further appetite suppression or side effects. It's not a diet pill. To lose more, increase the dose, the "setting" is lowered further, and appetite suppression returns until weight drops to whatever equilibrium level for the new dose is reached.

As to whether the observed weakening effect is only related to appetite or the other health benefits as well, that's a compete unknown. It'll probobly be years before we get answers among how and who this affects. Diabetics aren't jumping on and off, so there's not much to be discovered with them. Pharma weight loss users aren't typically starting and stopping repeatedly. They either get to a maintenance dose as advised in the prescribing instructions, or they just come off.

And intentionally doing this to subjects when the research is of a potential harm will make it hard to get approved.

I will say this. The "failure" rate and "non responders", seem to be exponentially higher among the "do it yourself" crown than those on the pharma protocols.

So, how would you know when it doesn’t work for you anymore? And when you have to start at the max dose when you restart using it do you go over the recommended maximum dose or switch compound? Or you just give up on it because it’s useless now?

How do you even use it as a non diabetic? Do you cycle it like the way we did aas back then or be like permablasters and just cruise on very low amounts when on growth phases?

Do you have data on how long of a break before the effects don’t occur anymore?

 

[DECLAN]

I can attest it on myself, I stopped sema for quite a long time, tried it again after 6+ months and at a dosage that previously was killing my appetite I could eat a cow no problem the second time.

I thought that doesn’t mean it’s not working anymore. Some people don’t even have that side effects and still lose weight.