Ateam2023
Member
ime it charges way to high fees to use and send money
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic
- Thread starter Qingdao Sigma Chemicals
- Start date
If you will have the time and patience in not a so distant future I'll bother you with few questions etc.
P.S. Opt for Test Decanoate
narta
Member
Whatever you need bruv
Ghoul
Member
There was a time when needle and vial sharing was common in gyms. Even the occasional instance of hepatitis didn't stop it, since the long term effect of liver cancer wasn't fully appreciated then. But AIDS finally did.
There were undoubtedly guys like you laughing at the "bubble boy" dudes who declined to share.
Standards improve with time and knowledge. The concerns are well documented by credible establishment research. not paranoid fringe fantasy, and the precautions we're discussing are no more extreme than a 1st year nurses aide would learn.
Even if we've eliminated 98% of the short term health risks of administering gear, is there something wrong with striving to knock out the rest, and prevent the next round of harms to our health that will only become apparent in long term?
Mr. Narta has been very cool to me. He is a. Awesome dude.. I bug the crap outta him about homwbrew information and he's always nice enough to answer my questions..
HereToTeachAndLearn
Member
I would agree that Narta rocks and has contributed much towards harm reduction here. That is why I don’t understand the reluctance to support something simple that can potentially reduce harm even more. To each their own, but I will continue with terminal sterilization of all my brews in spite of many saying it is unnecessary.
Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with, even if it goes against what others traditionally do,
Peace!
Where can I read about the effectiveness of that and process.was gonna send u a pm but I guess you don't except them.
LGOP528
Member
If my final volume comes out correct in the syringe, I consider it within an acceptable error. Another perk of syringe fillers.
Ghoul
Member
We'd all choose real pharma gear if it were easily available at a low price, not because UGLs and home brewing can't make effective gear, but because we all know it's safer, made to a higher standard.
I haven't looked for studies specifically addressing Terminal Sterilization, as it's been a long standard practice for manufacturing injectables.
You'll see in the links a lot of care is taken to keep every ingredient and piece of equipment in the process sterile, starting with raws.
Terminal sterilization is a recognition that even with the highest standards of manufacturing, bacterial contamination can still occur. Because we're bypassing the body's defense with an injection the consequences, short or long term, are much more serious than orals, or even inhalants, sources we're designed to fight off bacteria from.
For terminal sterilization heat sensitive products are exposed to radiation, in their packaging.
Steam autoclaves can sterilize at 121c.
Dry heat sterilization is usually done at 180c.
This is the method specified in Bayer's Testosterone Undecanoate patent.
From this we can extrapolate that BA, BB, Castor Oil, and Test-U can withstand 180c for 3 hours without significant degradation:
US7718640B2 - Methods and pharmaceutical compositions for reliable achievement of acceptable serum testosterone levels - Google Patents
The present invention relates to pharmaceutical compositions, formulated for injectable administration, which comprises a testosterone ester, in particularly testosterone undecanoate, in a vehicle comprising castor oil and a co-solvent. Upon injecting the compositions according to a particular...
patents.google.com
This is a pharma contract manufacturer, explaining the details of making sterile injectables. Obviously their standards are high, but time is money, and no step would be done if it were useless.
If anything, the much lower standards, and lack of testing in home brewing (and UGL) makes Terminal Sterilization even more useful, compensating for all the sources of contamination instead of relying 100% on a cheap filter from Amazon to do all the heavy lifting of sterilization.
Sterile injectables: What they are and how they're manufactured
Learn about sterile injectables, how they’re made, and the growing role they play in supporting patient care.
I know some say "I've been injecting for XX years and I'm fine, where's the evidence of bacteria??".
I think it's all around us. The unexplained brutal PIP, inflammation, occasional fevers, sudden joint pain, "Test flu".
It would be more odd to have never encountered contaminated gear given how loose the standards are, it's just that no one ever tests for microbials, including endotoxin, always present wherever there's bacterial and passes right through syringe filters.
Last edited:
narta
Member
Terminal heat sterilization is non NEEDED but doesn't hurt either, it only adds to safety and sterility. And if I was doing larger batches in a non controlled environment I would opt to incorporate such a step too
narta
Member
Nebido or any single ampoule product of Bayer doesn't use BA, only BB, castor oil and the API
Ghoul
Member
Fair enough! I was fooled by it being listed in the "ingredients" in a post a reference to the patent.
Too lazy to check for BA temp stability right now, but here's a common formula used by compounding pharmacies to make 100mg/ml test specifying Terminal Sterilization at 160c for just 2 hours, and it contains BA, BB, and Test.
Interesting to note they remind the pharmacy to make extra for the mandatory sterility and endotoxin tests...even for that tiny 50ml batch.
Problem is you have to make do with what you have. Nobody here is willing to inject bacteria into their body, hence we are giving sources shit for producing oil with floaters, actually push for sterility tests and we try to share and educate each other as homebrewers.We'd all choose real pharma gear if it were easily available at a low price, not because UGLs and home brewing can't make effective gear, but because we all know it's safer, made to a higher standard.
I haven't looked for studies specifically addressing Terminal Sterilization, as it's been a long standard practice for manufacturing injectables.
You'll see in the links a lot of care is taken to keep every ingredient and piece of equipment in the process sterile, starting with raws.
Terminal sterilization is a recognition that even with the highest standards of manufacturing, bacterial contamination can still occur. Because we're bypassing the body's defense with an injection the consequences, short or long term, are much more serious than orals, or even inhalants, sources we're designed to fight off bacteria from.
For terminal sterilization heat sensitive products are exposed to radiation, in their packaging.
Steam autoclaves can sterilize at 121c.
Dry heat sterilization is usually done at 180c.
This is the method specified in Bayer's Testosterone Undecanoate patent.
From this we can extrapolate that BA, BB, Castor Oil, and Test-U can withstand 180c for 3 hours without significant degradation:
View attachment 293900
US7718640B2 - Methods and pharmaceutical compositions for reliable achievement of acceptable serum testosterone levels - Google Patents
The present invention relates to pharmaceutical compositions, formulated for injectable administration, which comprises a testosterone ester, in particularly testosterone undecanoate, in a vehicle comprising castor oil and a co-solvent. Upon injecting the compositions according to a particular...patents.google.com
This is a pharma contract manufacturer, explaining the details of making sterile injectables. Obviously their standards are high, but time is money, and no step would be done if it were useless.
If anything, the much lower standards, and lack of testing in home brewing (and UGL) makes Terminal Sterilization even more useful, compensating for all the sources of contamination instead of relying 100% on a cheap filter from Amazon to do all the heavy lifting of sterilization.
Sterile injectables: What they are and how they're manufactured
Learn about sterile injectables, how they’re made, and the growing role they play in supporting patient care.www.vetter-pharma.com
I know some say "I've been injecting for XX years and I'm fine, where's the evidence of bacteria??".
I think it's all around us. The unexplained brutal PIP, inflammation, occasional fevers, sudden joint pain, "Test flu".
It would be more odd to have never encountered contaminated gear given how loose the standards are, it's just that no one ever tests for microbials, including endotoxin, always present wherever there's bacterial and passes right through syringe filters.
We do actually inject what we brew, we report our experience honestly, it is not just research from a study. Since the scientific world will not use ugl for scientific research, we are bound to do this ourselves.
I will trust people in this forum than anyone else when it comes to this subject, one because they have first hand experience and secondly they actually use it on themselves.
Furthermore, there is no epidemic of abscesses and infections plaguing our community that we know of. People have been injecting ugl for more than 40 years and people started with vet gear too, we have advanced better by learning about bad solvents to avoid, usage of better sterilization techniques and brewing methods.
In my opinion we’re doing just fine, let’s continue holding these vendors accountable and if you want to test ENDOTOXINS on your gear then actually send your stuff for testing, all I hear is jibber jabber and no actual movement, no offence.
AlexDavis43
Member
Doesn't matter in this context but that's not really true. I've worked in some low budget labs and there were times when we couldn't afford "pharma" quality like Sigma Aldrich. It was animal studies but we definitely did some UGL homebrewing for some compounds. It gets published just the same.
I stand corrected, my point still stands though, it is not used as a resource for reference when it comes to application or maybe I didn’t see or hear refer to such studies.
BigNattyMcGee
New Member
Thank you for sharing this - great info!
In "Anabolics" by William Llewellyn, he discuss heat sterilization of finished oils for 30 minutes at 120c/250f - based on what you have shared, this seems to low of a temp and to short of a time to be effective? Or, is it just not as effective, but still viable?
As long as we are not ruining our finished products due to over exposure of heat, I say do what gives you comfort and piece of mind!
Regular Joe
Member
feel like giving a quick rundown of what you would recommend to brew a 20 to 50g test d batch. im planning on the cheapest magnetic stir hot plate on amazon and i figured at that size batch i dont need a high end scale then syringe filters with caulk gun. thoughts on where to spend and where not to
Rippidy Dippidy
Member
Just inject it and if you don’t feel it within 6 hours and can’t do 15 more push ups then it’s definitely not Anavar — ft @Burntoutn3rd
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
You might not even need a hot plate, it helps, but isnt always nessesary. Depends on the blend. Keep in mind, dont heat your product over 60⁰ C. Some compounds like Tren will start to degrade
Roidzilla
New Member
But Nandrolone is not an AAS that produces a PIP, not even at high doses.
Pleace NPP with 150 or 200 mg/ml !
I'm already happy with NPP150
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