Readalots Enhanced Testing

[iris]

We didnt say there is no need for testing the product. As you know, I do send quite a bit of stuff for testing to Jano. I post majority of my test results to share with people here. I didn't have to post anything, and I could keep the results to myself.

1. It's not that we said there are no problems with the product. With HPLC testing, we can check for the major issues that are coming across with the product, purity. As we know EQ, DECA are big ones to look out for. For the most popular anabolics, We haven't seen major problems with the products, but I am not saying nobody should test it.

2. Yes, I agree with this. You never know if you the next batch will have issues. OR if the raws will come from the same manufacturer. Most of these "Manufacturers" are drop shippers and utilize different companies. I have had 2 sets of raws from the same manufacturer that clearly look different

3. With HPLC testing we can get refund on the product. the small little detail of GCMS we need to know what we are looking for. What are we are we going to do? Refuse to purchase the product from the manufacturer? While that is true, people will still purchase chinese oil with floaters. I have been pushing people to homebrew their own product and take their product into their own hands.

The most recent argument with Readalot was completely based off of asking if Test C causes Crippling PIP, he proceeds to send a report that is irrelevant as pain is subjective data. Then he asks if we are on drugs or if our anabolics are altering our train of thought.

What was asked by Readalot was your opinion on the impurities found through gcms.

Did you look at those lab results thinking they had a meaning for you and your homebrewing or not?

Be honest about it.
I had no idea about this -ene stuff.
You can say that from your point of view it is "whatever" and not something of concern.
I am genuinely interested in your opinion, more than what a ugl would do with this.
You make this for yourself, so that you can have control of every stage of production.
And you get all that you buy tested (+ shared on Meso. One of the very few).
I understood that, according to what you wrote, hplc is sufficient for your purposes, but I may be wrong.

 

[B Ware]

So horny!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

What was asked by Readalot was your opinion on the impurities found through gcms.

it goes back to the crippling pip issues from test E vs C.

Did you look at those lab results thinking they had a meaning for you and your homebrewing or not?

The "Enhanced" lab testing holds 0 value to me.

And you get all that you buy tested (+ shared on Meso. One of the very few).
I understood that, according to what you wrote, hplc is sufficient for your purposes, but I may be wrong.

yes. HPLC is sufficient for my purpose. especially if it tests high. We cant cherry pick the manufacturers and even a personal users would be out hundreds.

if I could get straight up compounding pharma grade Test U(which doesnt exist in the US) for 2000 a kilo, you bet your ass I would purchase it right away.

Especially for Testosterone as we would be on it long term. but most of these people dont give 2 shits about even HPLC testing their own stuff. So trying to cover "Enhanced" testing is BS as people hardly even care about what they purchase. They are wanting testosterone at 5 dollars a vial.

One may ask why I would not seek out "Pharma grade" Test U? For my lifetime supply of test. That's the one I would pay alot of money for. If I had one product for the rest of my life, it would be that.

1. Well I have to search for a new "manufacturing source"
2. Place an order and hope I don't get scammed.
3. Hopefully their shipping methods are stealth and I wont get LE involved.
4. Spend dollars to test it.
5. HOPE that it comes back ok.
6. HOPE ANY FUTURE ORDERS ARE THE SAME QUALITY

If any of these fail, I need to go out and search for another source.


The average user here hardly cares to test their product and just goes off of "the most recent batch" from 4 years ago. I am not saying that should be the standard, just stating what 95% of these users go off of.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Understandable. Should answer that open question which would take some more heroics. If folks finally understood that their 200 mg/ml Test Cyp (as tested by HPLC) was actually 170 mg/ml, that might be pertinent. Still a hypothesis at this point. Jano not interested in chasing down any further. Thanks for your interest.

I think you may have just hit on a really important selling point to get everyone from knuckle draggers to bubble boys to take vested interest in figuring this out.

Respectful reference to both camps.

 

[iris]

it goes back to the crippling pip issues from test E vs C.

OK, thanks.
It thought it was just about the impurities found in both, notwithstanding which one gives pip or not.

The "Enhanced" lab testing holds 0 value to me.

Fair enough.
I have learnt from you and Zebedee why some of the tests that being proposed here are not useful, in a ugl context.

For your purposes, hplc results and not gcms would be the results any homebrewers looking at this thread have to keep in mind.
And always test the raws, as you do.

Thank you.

 

[Millard]

We didnt say there is no need for testing the product. As you know, I do send quite a bit of stuff for testing to Jano. I post majority of my test results to share with people here. I didn't have to post anything, and I could keep the results to myself.

1. It's not that we said there are no problems with the product. With HPLC testing, we can check for the major issues that are coming across with the product, purity. As we know EQ, DECA are big ones to look out for. For the most popular anabolics, We haven't seen major problems with the products, but I am not saying nobody should test it.

2. Yes, I agree with this. You never know if you the next batch will have issues. OR if the raws will come from the same manufacturer. Most of these "Manufacturers" are drop shippers and utilize different companies. I have had 2 sets of raws from the same manufacturer that clearly look different

3. With HPLC testing we can get refund on the product. the small little detail of GCMS we need to know what we are looking for. What are we are we going to do? Refuse to purchase the product from the manufacturer? It is so hard to figure out what each of the impurities are.
While there is strength in numbers, Meso is hardly even 5% of the majority of the population of AAS users.


The most recent argument with Readalot was completely based off of asking if Test C causes Crippling PIP, he proceeds to send a report that is irrelevant as pain is subjective data. Then he asks if we are on drugs or if our anabolics are altering our train of thought.

I know you (and most) read my previous post as sarcasm. And it was in the use of all the absolutes.

Reading this thread in its entirety, the degree and manner in which many posters are discouraging lab testing could lead to this conclusion.

This is perhaps more reaction to @readalot's advocacy of it than the lab testing itself. I said this very early-on but it seems many are dismissing the message due to their dislike of the messenger.

I actually think you and others did a good job pointing out limitations of testing. However, it comes across as an over-exaggerated opposition to lab testing.

These limitations are not new. They existed ~10 years ago when AnabolicLab started encouraging more testing and before Janoshik made widespread testing possible. And they will still exist when it comes to testing black market products 10 years in the future.

What to do? I just think the answer to this problem is always more testing -- and not less.

 

[Millard]

The average user here hardly cares to test their product and just goes off of "the most recent batch" from 4 years ago. I am not saying that should be the standard, just stating what 95% of these users go off of.

Harm reduction requires patience. Maybe in 5 years, we will reduce that number to 90%. That is progress.

Knowledge is always a good thing. If you have the information and can provide it to users, they are no longer operating out of ignorance. They are making an informed choice even if they choose to continue their behavior unchanged when faced with this information.

Many people feel people will automatically make the "right" choice. That's just not how human behavior works.

Harm reduction advocates must accept people where they are at and patiently worked to move the needle towards less harm.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I know you (and most) read my previous post as sarcasm. And it was in the use of all the absolutes.

Unfortunately its hard for me to read sarcasm online, I could not tell. I feel like you are rarely sarcastic here. Makes me feel alot better now.

What to do? I just think the answer to this problem is always more testing -- and not less.

I think the main focus is more "Basic Testing" which most people do not even care to do. With the introduction of shipping platforms like Pirate Ship I would have hoped this would have encouraged more testing.

This shipping platform cuts costs by over 50%

Or even pushing vendors to credit for Blind Testing.(Or pay for it)

Why am I pushing for Basic testing instead of "Enhanced Testing"?

It is hard to fine tune a "project" when the most "basic tasks" arent even being completed,

or more importantly...the most "Basics Tasks" aren't even cared for. Why would people even do Endotoxin, Metals, and GCMS?

 

[Millard]

I think the main focus is more "Basic Testing" which most people do not even care to do.

I agree with this.

the most "Basics Tasks" aren't even cared for. Why would people even do Endotoxin, Metals, and GCMS?

They are not mutually exclusive, you know.

You can push for both. With finite resources, you obviously want to highly prioritize basic testing but I would argue not to the exclusion of advanced testing.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Or even pushing vendors to credit for Blind Testing.(Or pay for it)

This post came off a little bombastic (I apologize for that), but I support this.

If something tests poorly, that user probably doesn't want to order from this source again and just wants a full refund for testing & for the bunk gear (including shipping).

But then we have to agree on what constitutes bunk gear outside of the obvious.

 

[narta]

TIL there is no need for lab testing of black market AAS because:

(1) There are no major problems with the products;
(2) Yet even if lab tests confirmed that there are no major problems, there is no guarantee that products I receive won't have problems; and
(3) If lab tests did actually find major problems, there is nothing we could do anyway.

Thanks @narta and @Spaceman Spiff

I personally don't have problem with the in-depth testing of things. It gives insight.

What I do have problem with, is the forum-wide constant spamming for it. I get the idea, but the realist in me knows that it's not something that can be forced upon the vendors. I always advocate the "vote with your money" moto. But I can not and will not become an annoying spammer in order to persuade people to act like it.

Harm reduction is a process that involves both the one giving the advice AND the one receiving it. I can shout on top of my lungs that the 160 pound kid has to eat and not do 1gr of tren, but the kid will ultimately decide what he will do. I will say it once, if he is up to discuss it I will further elaborate, if he chooses to rationalize his decision I will walk away.

Floaters in gear? Don't buy
Underdosed: Don't buy
Mix up in the compound: Don't buy
No testing? Don't buy
No enchanced testing: You decide


Trying to make me advocate for enchanced testing, especially when the initial results showed that there is no problem with the products, through CONSTANT SPAMMING? Well, fuck off.

 

[narta]

What was asked by Readalot was your opinion on the impurities found through gcms.

Yes. The same impurities Jani has found when he was searching for the Test E pip problem. Results were inconclusive and as it seems the -ene isomere has nothing to do with pip since Test Cyp has them and it doesn't suffer from the same problem.

When that was argued he diverted the discussion to a "yes but you don't care about the -ene isomere?". Does he know what the ene isomere does? I bet if he did, we would know about. He doesn't. And I personally will not entertain a discussion just for the sake of discussion so others will think I am hot shit like he does.

 

[iris]

Narta,
I agree that the method to bring this topic to people's attention has not been optimal and has alienated many members.

But when you say "Enhanced testing, you decide" it's hasn't really been like that, has it?

You have been very vocal in your opposition to it, full stop.
Yes, the spamming (I agree, it could have been more targeted) but also the whole shebang itself.
Fair enough, you are allowed your own opinion.
You know I want to hear you and, sometimes, we have disagreed.
Often about criticism/insults of a personal nature, which I am not really a fan of.
But you have also brought a perspective I have learnt from.

Yes, people will vote with their wallet.
But how can they do so if this option is denied to them, in toto?

So, a vendor with a "premium line".
Same raws, same batch, all tested for everything.
Test results? You pay this much more for them.
This is not pharma grade, we know. I suppose it's ugl with a + (in terms of paperwork...).
You say why the hell a bunch of idiots overpaying for the same stuff, it will not work.

If it were up to you, none of it should happen.
But I like freedom of choice and availability and, even if to me this premium stuff is irrelevant, it may not be so to many(?) others.
Why should they not be given the opportunity to buy into it?
After all, they do not create difficulties to the ones who are not interested.
Their prices remain the same.
The others pay more. It's an addendum.

If nobody /not enough want it, the vendor may or may not lose out and it all stops.
If not, it may grow and start getting developed by other labs.
Because, if it works, they will deffo make money on those more costly vials.

I would like to see it start as an opportunity/choice, rather than imposition on everything and everyone. You are right, there.
Because we need to see how/if it actually works and the value it brings, for those who want it.

I cherish your input.
You have a lot of knowledge about substances, brewing and even the pharma industry, so this discussion must feature someone like you.

It's just a shame that, sometimes, its tone was taken down a notch.

But it's all good.
When people are passionate about their views, that's the way it goes.

I did say you are caliente, lol.

 

[iris]

Yes. The same impurities Jani has found when he was searching for the Test E pip problem. Results were inconclusive and as it seems the -ene isomere has nothing to do with pip since Test Cyp has them and it doesn't suffer from the same problem.

When that was argued he diverted the discussion to a "yes but you don't care about the -ene isomere?". Does he know what the ene isomere does? I bet if he did, we would know about. He doesn't. And I personally will not entertain a discussion just for the sake of discussion so others will think I am hot shit like he does.

Thank you for answering my question.
I did try to lure you back yesterday, but had lost hope you'd return, lol.
We must thank the owner for dragging you back here.

Now I understand what you mean.
I did read all those posts I had missed but thank you for clarifying, this makes it a lot easier for me, querido.

 

[narta]

You have been very vocal in your opposition to it, full stop.

Yes, the spamming (I agree, it could have been more targeted)

Let me help you see things from my perspective:

Login to Meso, hit New Posts.

Start reading.

First thread, a source thread, after a few posts there comes the unwanted spamming fart:

"Marcus, how about HPLC, GMS, Sterility etc etc"

You scroll down, and after 10 posts same post

You go to the other vendor threads. Same thing.

After a couple of days, it gets really annoying. Thread for China crackdown shenanigans, here is the white knight and his testing.

He opens up his thread, you say, nice at least I don't get to interact with him no more.... but nooooooo he comes in the threads, quoting his own fucking posts, in his own fucking thread, to lure people to interact with him and his crusade.

After a few days of dripping info about the enhanced testing results -for added interaction, the results show, no negative aspects. What does that do? It makes him start a new argument about isomeres. If that doesn't pan out, I bet he will go full circle and we will hear again about the need to force raw manufacturers to Jano test their products or else...

You see @iris everyone is free to his opinion, everyone is free to make his suggestions, testing and whatnot. But not everyone should get a free pass of being a spammy little cunt in order to masturbate his ego. He will be met with the appropriate response: fuck off.

 

[iris]

Let me help you see things from my perspective:

Login to Meso, hit New Posts.

Start reading.

First thread, a source thread, after a few posts there comes the unwanted spamming fart:

"Marcus, how about HPLC, GMS, Sterility etc etc"

You scroll down, and after 10 posts same post

You go to the other vendor threads. Same thing.

After a couple of days, it gets really annoying. Thread for China crackdown shenanigans, here is the white knight and his testing.

He opens up his thread, you say, nice at least I don't get to interact with him no more.... but nooooooo he comes in the threads, quoting his own fucking posts, in his own fucking thread, to lure people to interact with him and his crusade.

After a few days of dripping info about the enhanced testing results -for added interaction, the results show, no negative aspects. What does that do? It makes him start a new argument about isomeres. If that doesn't pan out, I bet he will go full circle and we will hear again about the need to force raw manufacturers to Jano test their products or else...

You see @iris everyone is free to his opinion, everyone is free to make his suggestions, testing and whatnot. But not everyone should get a free pass of being a spammy little cunt in order to masturbate his ego. He will be met with the appropriate response: fuck off.

Yes, I give you that and many other people thought the same, even the ones who wanted to know about this.

What I was pointing at is you now appear to be saying " you want this testing stuff, whatever, you choose" when you always thought it was not something to be entertained because useless; end of.
Even if the owner here has called you up on it and has other ideas about testing, you are still allowed to think as you do.
I just felt you downplayed your stance a little for the occasion...
Just a tiny bit.
I might be wrong, lol.
But you know I am being honest with you.

You were coherent, though, because you gave no reaction/thumbs up to the post.
Your reply was fair.

Unlike someone like AlexDavis, who was quick with his emoji for the owner's post (which advocated for this kind of testing to happen, when he has been bashing this and OP all along).

I mean, do it, but keep at it, not pretend otherwise when convenient.

Not the case with you, really.
Thank you
❤

 

[readalot]

Does he know what the ene isomere does? I bet if he did, we would know about. He doesn't.

I already did talk about it. Testosterone impurity. Not testosterone. Get it? If you gave one shit you would already know about it. So I won't spam about it further.