Religion!

[garyzilla]

I'm really good with your statement except for the part about practicing it in public, which I am not sure I understand.

I'm against religion, personally, but I think of religion as a system of rules and regulations based on someone's experience and interpretation of a text (like the bible).

I'm for a relationship with God, and for others practicing the results of that relationship. I don't know how a person could avoid practicing religion in public, if 'that' is what you mean. But if you mean the rules and regs thing, and by publically, people annoying others by stepping into their space, I'd agree. But then again I'm against those food court people at the mall trying to get me to taste their wares as I walk by.

The problem with religion for me, is it's poisonous. There isn't anything useful in it. Groups of people trying to spread a specific belief is irritating, and kills the poor suckers doing the work.

Having a relationship with God is great, but churches pervert the joy of that relationship by getting gullible people, well meaning people, to think that the church somehow represents God's authority on earth.

My story is I met God at 18, went to bible college and got my degree in theoology, and then spent 20 frustrating years trying to match my relationship with God, with what the church said.

Then one day watching "The Matrix", God shows up and tells me my problem is I'm trapped by the matrix of the church and religion. When the scene came up where Neo dodges the bullets, I couldn't move at all, and God said, "That's you". I thought that was amazing and cool, until the end of the movie, after Neo dies and is resurrected, having total control over the matrix. Then God said, "That's where I want you to be".

20 years of religion went out the window, and very odd things have happened since.

An example of things God is for the church is against... alcohol and weed. I had not taken a drink in 40 years of life, not one. After this, God told me to go get some alcohol and get drunk. My parents were alcoholics, and he said I needed to not be afraid. Also, he said if you drink, there is no chance you can ever judge someone else who drinks, or has a problem with it controlling their lives.

So drunk I got, and it was nothing. The room spun around and I got a kick out of the fact that I KNEW that corner of the room was not moving, that I was not moving, but there is was anyway, moving.

Then he had me get weed. Then he had me get drunk while smoking weed, and then make love while smoking and drunk. Let me tell you, my wife's and my relationship has become INCREDIBLY intense and intimate because of these things.

Anyway, the church is f'd up big time, and the people in it, are in a matrix of lies. There are agents and all manner of evil keeping good people DOING things rather than HAVING a relationship, a love affair, with God and their neighbors. It's 11:39. Eleven 11 will understand that one... Numbers are a big thing with God.

As one once trapped by the matrix, I now try to set others free of it.

All practical truth can be summed up in this, "Love God with all of your heart, and your neigbor as yourself".

Religion is a set of lies that tell you HOW you should go about doing that. They are wrong. A love affair knows no bounds, no borders. To quote Neo's last phone scene, "I'm going to show them a world, a world without borders or boundries... where we go from there, I leave up to you."

For what it's worth, I'm juicing because God told me to. Practicing my religion in public for me, is juicing, drinking, and having a good time. Part of that may sometime include my telling people who ask, how great God is in your life, but to me that's the same as just being at the store and a kid says to me, "Why run, life sucks, why make it last longer". I said, "Well, for 20 minutes 5 days a week, you can nail your wife a lot longer and harder, and she will want to do it more..."

I did not really want to respond to this thread, but after these comments I had to. I agree with some off what Neodavid is saying, but a lot of it is pure stupid. God told you to get drunk and smoke weed so you will not judge others? This is probably the same God that tells some parents to kill there children because they are going to grow up evil. If you went to Bible college and got a degree in Theology then you should that Satan walks around like an "Angel of Light" spreading lies. This sounds to me like what happened.

-Pastor

 

[MANWHORE]

Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
--Mahatma Gandhi The Book of Positive Quotations by John Cook Hate the sin and love the sinner.
--Mahatma Gandhi [Mahatma] India nationalist, spiritual leader

 

[greyowl]

God told you to get drunk and smoke weed so you will not judge others? This is probably the same God that tells some parents to kill there children because they are going to grow up evil/QUOTE]


Yes, and also the same God who believes that Jews will go to hell, that little children should be compelled to recite the Lord's prayer whether their parents are evangelical or not, that childrens' aid societies should be free to abduct the children of gay parents, and that the separation of (christian) church and state should be done away with, thus turning America into a theocratic state much like Iran.

If you went to Bible college and got a degree in Theology then you should that Satan walks around like an "Angel of Light" spreading lies/QUOTE]


Do you mean like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, who publicly profess born-again Christian values while lying through their teeth?


While you're at it garyzilla, perhaps you can explain to me why the meanest, most narrow-minded, most authoritarian, most downright vicious people in the world tend to be fundamentalists, and why the kindest, most generous and considerate people tend to be agnostics or people who worship non-evangelical faiths.

 

[Bob Smith]

If you went to Bible college and got a degree in Theology then you should that Satan walks around like an "Angel of Light" spreading lies/QUOTE]

Do you mean like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, who publicly profess born-again Christian values while lying through their teeth?.

You will find the exact same thing in any religion and in the non-religious as well. Of course, that is no excuse at all and not a justification for lying. I think that much of the problem or negativity towards Christians is, much like this whole Iraqi prison issue, is that a few screw up everything for the whole. A few bad apples spoil the bunch. People take those few and extend it to represent the whole, which is usually far from reality.

Its also the same as calling all Muslims terrorists like many people on this board, continue to do. Old Timer is a Muslim, yet he is not a terrorist. There are tens (hundreds?) of millions of honest, peace-loving Muslims that condemn terrorist activities, particularly when those activities are carried out because of their supposed faith. Those people are Muslims, they are extremists that are so far away from the tenets of their faith that calling them Muslim isnt even accurate. The same can be said for Christians who shoot doctors who perform abortions or say that non-white people should be slave to the white man. They arent Christians, they are extremists who go about things in totally non-Christian, and often illegal, manners. Those people are basically lying when they call themselves Christians. The Bible says for Christians to not live like the worldly and to be a beacon of light amongst the darkness. Those shooters, bombers, and so on are all part of that darkness.

While you're at it garyzilla, perhaps you can explain to me why the meanest, most narrow-minded, most authoritarian, most downright vicious people in the world tend to be fundamentalists, and why the kindest, most generous and considerate people tend to be agnostics or people who worship non-evangelical faiths.

That is quite possible, but I will point you back to my previous statements. Most of the Christians I know are kind, loving people that would give you the shirt off their back in the middle of a blizzard. Not all are evil people, but those that are reflect on all the others and IMO, lead to feelings like what you have stated. I dont disagree with your thoughts and feelings on this, but I think those people you condemn would also be condemned by most of the Christian population.

 

[garyzilla]

God told you to get drunk and smoke weed so you will not judge others? This is probably the same God that tells some parents to kill there children because they are going to grow up evil/QUOTE]


Yes, and also the same God who believes that Jews will go to hell, that little children should be compelled to recite the Lord's prayer whether their parents are evangelical or not, that childrens' aid societies should be free to abduct the children of gay parents, and that the separation of (christian) church and state should be done away with, thus turning America into a theocratic state much like Iran.

If you went to Bible college and got a degree in Theology then you should that Satan walks around like an "Angel of Light" spreading lies/QUOTE]


Do you mean like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, who publicly profess born-again Christian values while lying through their teeth?


While you're at it garyzilla, perhaps you can explain to me why the meanest, most narrow-minded, most authoritarian, most downright vicious people in the world tend to be fundamentalists, and why the kindest, most generous and considerate people tend to be agnostics or people who worship non-evangelical faiths.

I guess Greyowl you do not know that many Christians then. Because the Christians that I know, and the church that I pastor the people are not mean at all. I think what you are confusing as mean is when a Christian stands up and says that gay marriage is wrong. To me that is not mean but the truth. Greyowl I know where you are coming from, and am going to take it that you do not believe the Bible is truth, or God's truth without error. To be honest I have herd it all so do not try and prove to me that the Bible is has errors in it. The funny thing is that when a Christian stands up and a speaks what he/she believes they are seen as mean and out dated, but when gays protest they are seen as the victims are seen as right. I am sory but I will preach God's truth and never back down. But, at the same time I am not telling you to be silent either. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not mean they are. To tell you the truth there are many very mean agnostics that I know, Are you one of them? I sure hope not!

 

[Neodavid]

To me you are ones following the angel of light, teaching 'doing' rather than love (don't get me wrong, you do it very sneakily).

Show me in scripture where drinking or smoking weed is wrong.

I dare say you don't have a leg to stand on. Please try to go into greek or hebrew to prove your point too...

I mean no harm here, only to explain my position. There is no emotional negativity from me to you as a person in any way.

Most of what you teach is full of poison, and you have been eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thinking it is the tree of life.

You won't respond, you can't. You know you would lose this argument.

Your heart can't take it, you have to stay in your mind, and that is why you cannot advance. There is a conflict, a splinter in your mind, telling you something is wrong, and you spend most of your time ignoring it, and trying to justify it, blaming it on the world, the flesh, and the devil.

The problem is the lie you believe. You are trapped by the matrix. You are bound by it's rules, yet your heart wants to have an abandoned love affair with God, because your heart is made new if you are in Christ.

Choose your words carefully, I did not say being controlled by substances, I said use them. Everything that controls you apart from the Holy Spirit, is idolitry. Your idol is your false understanding of scripture. You worship that rather than God, but you think you worship him purely.

It's okay, he knows your heart, but it sucks for you (for him too).

There is a freedom to follow his Spirit, and to truly understand, "Judge not that ye be not judged", to truly be in love, and to be free to be you as he made you to be... not just as you have been taught how you should be, or how your mind has taken control over what belongs to your heart.

You put knowledge above the heart, same lie as Eve fell for in the garden, same lie Adam chose to follow in, being not deceived. You seek to know God by knowing about him, by reading from a book you do not understand.

There is a better way, in Christ... there is no condemnation, we are as children, not theologians, to get closer to God. All of your study is for naught, except this, it is your schoolmaster to lead you to Christ, to show you the law no longer binds us, for this is the great truth you do not understand... The law is a shadow, Christ is the substance. The law is fullfilled in perfect love. Alcohol and weed do nothing to harm people, they are things from God, as are flowers and the sky.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So it is with men's actions. All stems from the heart. A thing is not evil, it is not that which goes into a man which makes him impure, but that which comes out.

You are fooled, and as a result choose to be a servant of agents, and sin some in believing your false knowledge can call another man's grace, "stupidity".

Show me the scriptures friend, seriously you can try. I predict you won't though, and I honestly won't blame you. The idea that a thing is wrong, is easy to show with a gun or knife. It is not those things that are wrong, they are useful. What a person does with them, and more importantly, 'why', is the key to right and wrong (or better yet, love, or selfishness).

So I agree with you, Satan is as an angel of light, and you have been fooled by that light. No offense intended. I will not say you are stupid as you called my words.

I did not really want to respond to this thread, but after these comments I had to. I agree with some off what Neodavid is saying, but a lot of it is pure stupid. God told you to get drunk and smoke weed so you will not judge others? This is probably the same God that tells some parents to kill there children because they are going to grow up evil. If you went to Bible college and got a degree in Theology then you should that Satan walks around like an "Angel of Light" spreading lies. This sounds to me like what happened.

-Pastor

 

[garyzilla]

To me you are ones following the angel of light, teaching 'doing' rather than love (don't get me wrong, you do it very sneakily).

Show me in scripture where drinking or smoking weed is wrong.

I dare say you don't have a leg to stand on. Please try to go into greek or hebrew to prove your point too...

I mean no harm here, only to explain my position. There is no emotional negativity from me to you as a person in any way.

Most of what you teach is full of poison, and you have been eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thinking it is the tree of life.

You won't respond, you can't. You know you would lose this argument.

Your heart can't take it, you have to stay in your mind, and that is why you cannot advance. There is a conflict, a splinter in your mind, telling you something is wrong, and you spend most of your time ignoring it, and trying to justify it, blaming it on the world, the flesh, and the devil.

The problem is the lie you believe. You are trapped by the matrix. You are bound by it's rules, yet your heart wants to have an abandoned love affair with God, because your heart is made new if you are in Christ.

Choose your words carefully, I did not say being controlled by substances, I said use them. Everything that controls you apart from the Holy Spirit, is idolitry. Your idol is your false understanding of scripture. You worship that rather than God, but you think you worship him purely.

It's okay, he knows your heart, but it sucks for you (for him too).

There is a freedom to follow his Spirit, and to truly understand, "Judge not that ye be not judged", to truly be in love, and to be free to be you as he made you to be... not just as you have been taught how you should be, or how your mind has taken control over what belongs to your heart.

You put knowledge above the heart, same lie as Eve fell for in the garden, same lie Adam chose to follow in, being not deceived. You seek to know God by knowing about him, by reading from a book you do not understand.

There is a better way, in Christ... there is no condemnation, we are as children, not theologians, to get closer to God. All of your study is for naught, except this, it is your schoolmaster to lead you to Christ, to show you the law no longer binds us, for this is the great truth you do not understand... The law is a shadow, Christ is the substance. The law is fullfilled in perfect love. Alcohol and weed do nothing to harm people, they are things from God, as are flowers and the sky.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So it is with men's actions. All stems from the heart. A thing is not evil, it is not that which goes into a man which makes him impure, but that which comes out.

You are fooled, and as a result choose to be a servant of agents, and sin some in believing your false knowledge can call another man's grace, "stupidity".

Show me the scriptures friend, seriously you can try. I predict you won't though, and I honestly won't blame you. The idea that a thing is wrong, is easy to show with a gun or knife. It is not those things that are wrong, they are useful. What a person does with them, and more importantly, 'why', is the key to right and wrong (or better yet, love, or selfishness).

So I agree with you, Satan is as an angel of light, and you have been fooled by that light. No offense intended. I will not say you are stupid as you called my words.

Neodavid I have replied to threds like yours countless times. So I am the one that is wrong, full of poison. All those that I teach , and myself are being deceived, I have heard that before also. You will be surprized that I would agree that drinking is not wrong, but getting drunk is. Smoking weed is wrong because it is illegal, and they Bible tells to obey mans laws as long as they do not go against God's. So right there I have you, and you know I am right. No need for the Greek and Hebrew with this one. By the way, "The Matrix" is a movie, it is not true. Which pill are you going to choose the red or the blue? Come on now, your much smarter than that! By the way, why would I want to smoke something that harms my body, and yes weed harms your body! I do not care how much you try to tell me, but God did not tell you to get drunk and smoke weed.

 

[Neodavid]

We aught to obey God, rather than man.

I can trade it back and forth with ya bro, and I have no desire to waste your time doing so, but if you like your welcome to try.

It was illegal to date interacially, or marry. Many moral things were made illegal, because of man's desire to be in control of others, forcing his prejudice upon them. Your legal argument is pretty weak... In Nazi Germany it was illegal not to obey hitler... hmmm....

Friend, you don't get it.

By the way, it's not wrong to get drunk either. Define it... what is drunk? One drink affects you... you have to go to some legal definition again, and that is where you will always go wrong. You cease to think, you cease to discern, and turn off your brain regarding the morality of man's law.

Love is what is right, nothing else. Love is the substance, the law a mere shadow. You are still under the law, you need to read Galations and get it this time (smile).

Drunk in excess, is the sin, read Ephesians. To put yourself under the influence and control of a thing so that you no longer obey God and act in love, this is the sin... not being drunk, but drunkenness.

You think I argue for evil, but I argue for love only. Freedom is a necessity, and I can't help that. Each man IS responsible to follow God, to follow love, to be controlled by his Spirit...

But the problem here is you judge, and you judge that which you know not. You judge falsely things which belong to another man.

If God tells you not to go to see Bambi, it is wrong to see Bambi. He might however tell me to watch it. Then it is wrong for me not to see it.

You don't get it, this is a relationship, personal, deep, intimate, and something far beyond what you have experienced on a regular basis. The law holds you, ego controls you, and lies are all around you. You accept them as truth because they are familiar.

It could well be you are in the perfect center of God's will, I am saying nothing of your integrity. I only know when you speak regarding me, you know nothing, and you do not know God in a way that would allow you to understand. The rightious man is judged by no man... I am rightious, by Christ, and I am led by his Spirit, always to love, always to grace, and the fruit of the Spirit. But you would rather judge my actions, mistaking fruit as if it were how I act compared to how you think I shoul act, RATHER, than the truth, and the only thing that fruit of the Spirit is, Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, meekness, gentleness, faith... against such, there is no law.

Back at ya bro... you don't stand a chance man, give it up! (all in good brotherly fun, with respect to you as God's creation)

Neodavid I have replied to threds like yours countless times. So I am the one that is wrong, full of poison. All those that I teach , and myself are being deceived, I have heard that before also. You will be surprized that I would agree that drinking is not wrong, but getting drunk is. Smoking weed is wrong because it is illegal, and they Bible tells to obey mans laws as long as they do not go against God's. So right there I have you, and you know I am right. No need for the Greek and Hebrew with this one. By the way, "The Matrix" is a movie, it is not true. Which pill are you going to choose the red or the blue? Come on now, your much smarter than that! By the way, why would I want to smoke something that harms my body, and yes weed harms your body! I do not care how much you try to tell me, but God did not tell you to get drunk and smoke weed.

 

[Neodavid]

Oops, forgot to tell you, weed doesn't harm the body. Like everything else, it brings about change. Harm is defined by you as... that which you don't like?

Sugar is a lot more harmful than weed (grin). What are YOU doing in a forum for guys who do illegal substances? heh heh....

Gotta love it.

Neodavid I have replied to threds like yours countless times. So I am the one that is wrong, full of poison. All those that I teach , and myself are being deceived, I have heard that before also. You will be surprized that I would agree that drinking is not wrong, but getting drunk is. Smoking weed is wrong because it is illegal, and they Bible tells to obey mans laws as long as they do not go against God's. So right there I have you, and you know I am right. No need for the Greek and Hebrew with this one. By the way, "The Matrix" is a movie, it is not true. Which pill are you going to choose the red or the blue? Come on now, your much smarter than that! By the way, why would I want to smoke something that harms my body, and yes weed harms your body! I do not care how much you try to tell me, but God did not tell you to get drunk and smoke weed.

 

[garyzilla]

We aught to obey God, rather than man.

I can trade it back and forth with ya bro, and I have no desire to waste your time doing so, but if you like your welcome to try.

It was illegal to date interacially, or marry. Many moral things were made illegal, because of man's desire to be in control of others, forcing his prejudice upon them. Your legal argument is pretty weak... In Nazi Germany it was illegal not to obey hitler... hmmm....

Friend, you don't get it.

By the way, it's not wrong to get drunk either. Define it... what is drunk? One drink affects you... you have to go to some legal definition again, and that is where you will always go wrong. You cease to think, you cease to discern, and turn off your brain regarding the morality of man's law.

Love is what is right, nothing else. Love is the substance, the law a mere shadow. You are still under the law, you need to read Galations and get it this time (smile).

Drunk in excess, is the sin, read Ephesians. To put yourself under the influence and control of a thing so that you no longer obey God and act in love, this is the sin... not being drunk, but drunkenness.

You think I argue for evil, but I argue for love only. Freedom is a necessity, and I can't help that. Each man IS responsible to follow God, to follow love, to be controlled by his Spirit...

But the problem here is you judge, and you judge that which you know not. You judge falsely things which belong to another man.

If God tells you not to go to see Bambi, it is wrong to see Bambi. He might however tell me to watch it. Then it is wrong for me not to see it.

You don't get it, this is a relationship, personal, deep, intimate, and something far beyond what you have experienced on a regular basis. The law holds you, ego controls you, and lies are all around you. You accept them as truth because they are familiar.

It could well be you are in the perfect center of God's will, I am saying nothing of your integrity. I only know when you speak regarding me, you know nothing, and you do not know God in a way that would allow you to understand. The rightious man is judged by no man... I am rightious, by Christ, and I am led by his Spirit, always to love, always to grace, and the fruit of the Spirit. But you would rather judge my actions, mistaking fruit as if it were how I act compared to how you think I shoul act, RATHER, than the truth, and the only thing that fruit of the Spirit is, Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, meekness, gentleness, faith... against such, there is no law.

Back at ya bro... you don't stand a chance man, give it up! (all in good brotherly fun, with respect to you as God's creation)

It is very hard to debate someone who is delusional, and you my friend are. You mix truth with lies! I am done debating you about this until you get back on your meds!

 

[Neodavid]

Ah, nice... good christian fellow, you are following religion well, and not god, for when you cannot respond with logical argument and truth, you attack the man....

Sad you can't even see how ugly that is. How unloving, how unlike Christ.

Your church in 2000 years has accomplished nothing, but caused wars and killed... you think this is success? You think you have the answers?

My friend, and if you are in Christ you are my friend, I say to you, "Wake up, Neo... the matrix has you..."

It is very hard to debate someone who is delusional, and you my friend are. You mix truth with lies! I am done debating you about this until you get back on your meds!

 

[garyzilla]

Ah, nice... good christian fellow, you are following religion well, and not god, for when you cannot respond with logical argument and truth, you attack the man....

Sad you can't even see how ugly that is. How unloving, how unlike Christ.

Your church in 2000 years has accomplished nothing, but caused wars and killed... you think this is success? You think you have the answers?

My friend, and if you are in Christ you are my friend, I say to you, "Wake up, Neo... the matrix has you..."

YAAAAAAWWWWWNNNN!

 

[garyzilla]

Oops, forgot to tell you, weed doesn't harm the body. Like everything else, it brings about change. Harm is defined by you as... that which you don't like?

Sugar is a lot more harmful than weed (grin). What are YOU doing in a forum for guys who do illegal substances? heh heh....

Gotta love it.

Again, you are so delusional! Weed does not harm the body or mind, your nuts. You gotta be from Jamaica. By the way there is a lot more to Meso that steriods. If that is the only reason why you are here, then you are really mssing out. You say that i was being unloving, or unchristian for calling you delusional. Well my friend I was not being unloving, what i was doing was called rebuking. You being a bible college grad should know what that is. The Bible talks about rebuking, but you probably do not read it because you do not believe in the church.

 

[Buff Diddy]

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" I forget who said that but it's true. It eases your mind so you can stop pondering the meaning of life. Someone I respect once said he didn't belive in god because he thought people were too stupid to know if there is or isn't a god. I think he's probably right. And as far as weed goes I'm with drew barrymore who said she just couldn't smoke it anymore because she's too paranoid.

 

[Neodavid]

I was calling you out on your own term, the bible. For others, that means nothing, but to you supposedly it does.

With no scriptural response, you had to attack me rather than what I said.

I'd be happy to discuss this scripturally with you, I've been quoting it to you in almost every sentence.

I understand you can't, it's probably very frustrating for you to hear it used to show how wrong you are. Most people who know the truth, don't know the scripture that supports them. I got lucky in that, but it only shows me that those who supposedly believe in it, only believe what they want to believe.

As the other bro said, Religion is the opiate of the masses, and so it is.

In your case you are swallowed by it, and believe it completely, at the sake of a loss of patience, love, and all of the fruit of the spirit. Straining at a gnat, you swallow a camel (to quote more scripture for you).

Jesus was rejected by the legalistic jews, and so he is rejected by you. They too supported a Messiah, the one they had made up. yours is not too different. You would not recieve the real Jesus, because he said "Juge not that you be not judged". You would reject him because he said, "Love your neighbor as yourself, and you have fulfilled all of the law and prophets".

you still want to control everything, make your life simple, by accepting rules rather than relationship (with God). Your ego is tied to your belief in the matrix of lies. But all they do is keep you from really loving others, and not judging them. You use them to judge others and make yourself rightious in doing so. But it's all a lie, all against real love. You judge by actions rather than motive. You don't understand that when not under the law, motive, not actions, is everything. The doing is nothing, the WHY of the doing is everything.

We are no longer under the law, so says Paul the apostle. Read Galations. Read the very scripture you claim to believe. Read how they went back under the law, because it was so much easier, AND allowed them the self-rightiousness pride so requires. The flesh loves the law, when it thinks it is obediant. Ego wants to judge others. Love is much much harder, and requires selflessness. Ego says, "I am rebuking you" when in fact the evil in the heart only wants to express itself in judgment, rather than have it's safe shelter taken away.

Again, you are so delusional! Weed does not harm the body or mind, your nuts. You gotta be from Jamaica. By the way there is a lot more to Meso that steriods. If that is the only reason why you are here, then you are really mssing out. You say that i was being unloving, or unchristian for calling you delusional. Well my friend I was not being unloving, what i was doing was called rebuking. You being a bible college grad should know what that is. The Bible talks about rebuking, but you probably do not read it because you do not believe in the church.

 

[garyzilla]

I was calling you out on your own term, the bible. For others, that means nothing, but to you supposedly it does.

With no scriptural response, you had to attack me rather than what I said.

I'd be happy to discuss this scripturally with you, I've been quoting it to you in almost every sentence.

I understand you can't, it's probably very frustrating for you to hear it used to show how wrong you are. Most people who know the truth, don't know the scripture that supports them. I got lucky in that, but it only shows me that those who supposedly believe in it, only believe what they want to believe.

As the other bro said, Religion is the opiate of the masses, and so it is.

In your case you are swallowed by it, and believe it completely, at the sake of a loss of patience, love, and all of the fruit of the spirit. Straining at a gnat, you swallow a camel (to quote more scripture for you).

Jesus was rejected by the legalistic jews, and so he is rejected by you. They too supported a Messiah, the one they had made up. yours is not too different. You would not recieve the real Jesus, because he said "Juge not that you be not judged". You would reject him because he said, "Love your neighbor as yourself, and you have fulfilled all of the law and prophets".

you still want to control everything, make your life simple, by accepting rules rather than relationship (with God). Your ego is tied to your belief in the matrix of lies. But all they do is keep you from really loving others, and not judging them. You use them to judge others and make yourself rightious in doing so. But it's all a lie, all against real love. You judge by actions rather than motive. You don't understand that when not under the law, motive, not actions, is everything. The doing is nothing, the WHY of the doing is everything.

We are no longer under the law, so says Paul the apostle. Read Galations. Read the very scripture you claim to believe. Read how they went back under the law, because it was so much easier, AND allowed them the self-rightiousness pride so requires. The flesh loves the law, when it thinks it is obediant. Ego wants to judge others. Love is much much harder, and requires selflessness. Ego says, "I am rebuking you" when in fact the evil in the heart only wants to express itself in judgment, rather than have it's safe shelter taken away.

The reason why I do not use the bible with is that it would not make any differance. You will either ignore the verses I am giving, or will take them out of context. Yes, we are not under the law, but that does not mean there are no rules we have to live by. Read the the N.T. there are many things that Christ tells we have to do, along with John, Paul, ect... It seems to me that you want what every non-believer wants. You want to live your own life by your own rules with haveing to anwser to nobody, and that includes God. This is more to the Christian life than just loving everybody, and going around and saying God is love. No, I am not judgeing you, just making a observation that you my friend need to reread the Bible. We are in the church age, and the church is the method God is useing right now, read your bible it is there. Your right I am to not to judge others, but the Bible does not say that I cannot be a fruit inspector. You have no idea how great my realationship with God is. What gets me is you think God tells you to get drunk, and smoke weed and then you trying to pull semantics on me saying define drunk, and weed is really not that bad, man made that up. You are very delsional in that respect. I read my Bible daily and study, pray, and ask questions, I know that I am on the right path, but somewhere you got off. If you want a Bible debate then bring the verses on I will be happy to do it, New Testamant or Old Testamant it makes no differance, otherwise lets go our seperate ways and agree to disagree and end these posts.

By the way I watched the Matrix last night and God told me to have sex with someone with AIDS so I do not judges those with AIDS. Sounds pretty foolish right? Now you know how fooish it is to think that God told you to get drunk and smoke weed!

 

[Neodavid]

you:
The reason why I do not use the bible with is that it would not make any differance. You will either ignore the verses I am giving, or will take them out of context.

me:
Your dodging the reality, that you don't want to get into the details, because you don't have the answers. Been watching a lot of political stuff lately? That's what politicians do.

The question was simple, show me a verse that says alcohol or weed are immoral or wrong to use. You can't, so you try to bow out calling ME unreasonable. The thing is you would lose the argument because you have nothing to go on. I know the bible inside and out, so I know no such verse exists.

you:
Yes, we are not under the law, but that does not mean there are no rules we have to live by.

me:
Oh, that's exactly what it means.

You don't see how ludicrous your statement is, that we are not under the law, but there are still rules????

No sir, as I have told you before and you have ignored dealing with repeatedly, is that LOVE is the answer, the one and only answer. Love is a higher truth, the law is a mere shadow of it. The law deals with actions, but the truth is that the hearts MOTIVE is what matters.

Everyone knows this inherintly. the strongest defense of a childs mistake is, "He didn't know better, he was trying to be helpful".

you:
Read the the N.T. there are many things that Christ tells we have to do, along with John, Paul, ect... It seems to me that you want what every non-believer wants. You want to live your own life by your own rules with haveing to anwser to nobody, and that includes God.

me:
Do you bother to actually read what I write? Just curious...

What does Jesus tell us that we have to do? WHERE did you come up with that one? He said 'love', and 'go'. I've askee you to show me otherwise...

Your speaking out of pure ignorance, regarding my life, and you try to impune my motives...

My life is not my own, it belongs entirely to God. I'm in the center of his will, which rightly so, is very satisfying to both of us. I have no will of my own in the sense I have given everything to God. It just so happens he likes people, and even me, so he gives me many good things. He's also given me many hard things to do.

Your argument is entirely cut out from under you unless you believe my motives are selfish. Therefore you attack me and my motives, when you couldn't possibly know me. That is illogical. You are seeking any way out now, you are desperate not to talk about the things themselves, so you attack me.

If I were in charge of my life, it would be entirely different than it is. I could be out of many situations and live much more peacably with the church. But I can't go against Christ and his word. I know him, he wants to overturn the moneytables again, he wants to bring judgment to the church to purify it, and so it is coming.

He wants a bride, friend. A bride has a sweet tender heart yearning for her husband. She is concerned with him, and he with her. The heart is what mattes. If the heart is right, the actions which follow will be right.

This is why love is higher than the law, why relationship is better than mere obediance to rules.

Why do you ignore the scriptures I have brought up? They fly in the face of your matrix, and you have lived so long upsidedown it seems the right way.

You can't believe the Holy Spirit would have me get drunk or smoke weed? Why? What is your scriptural reason?

I remind you the bible is full of examples of God telling men to do things which they believed were bad for them, including even going to war to die. I think going to war is very bad for me, but I would do it if God told me to. I believe when the prophet had the servant hit him, it was bad for him, but he did it out of love. What is your SCRIPTURAL REASON, dear brother, for saying God would not have a man get drunk, or smoke weed?

You stumble at the offense of Christ's freedom, that you must live by faith and relationship, when you'd rather live in the safe haven of what your mind can wrap itself around. B O R I N G... (smile) It's a lot more fun to wake up and talk with Dad, saying, "Hey, what's it going to be today Dad?"

He's all about releasing us from fears and things that hurt our spirit. He is quite willing to sacrifice anything physical to heal what can never die.

If it leads to love, to a tender heart, to the fruit of the spirit, he will use it. He's God, I'm not. Neither are you, or your misunderstanding of scripture and the REAL relationship, moment by moment, intimate beyond words, satisfying to the depths of the soul, pleasurable past all experience...

Sorry, my life is not my own, and I'm not wanting anything except to love my God, and the people he has created.

you:
This is more to the Christian life than just loving everybody, and going around and saying God is love. No, I am not judgeing you, just making a observation that you my friend need to reread the Bible. We are in the church age, and the church is the method God is useing right now, read your bible it is there.

me:
Friend, the church was likened to a mustard seed, growing into a huge tree where birds nested. Mustard plants are bushes, not trees. He was telling us it would get bigger than it should, and corrupted with demons.

Read Rev 3, you are in denial, you are one of the Laodicean churches, we are in that age. You think you have it all, but you are blind, naked, and full of sores from head to toe. The poison in your system is seen as your friend.

You need to read the book of acts and see what the real church was like, small meetings in peoples homes... no buildings, no emphasis on money, but an emphasis on love.

Man's 'church' methods have gotten him nowhere. The world is worse than it's ever been. The visible church is NOT God's method. The invisible church, the true faithful believers, they are his way.

you:
Your right I am to not to judge others, but the Bible does not say that I cannot be a fruit inspector.

me:
Which is why I told you how mistaken you were about what fruit IS.

You think fruit is actions, my disobediance to your belief that smoking weed is wrong.

Fruit according to Ephesians, is of the Spirit, Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, faithfulnes, "Against such there can be no law".

Inspect away, but not my actions, but my heart. You would have to get to know me, but you can't because you judge me by my actions.

You are going to be fun to watch when God says, "Hey, I told him to smoke that weed, you mind your own business and the things I tell YOU"

He's a good Dad. He treats his children according to their hearts, and what job he has for them.


you:
You have no idea how great my realationship with God is.

me:
Ditto, but you think you CAN know, by judging what I do. You can't, you could only know that by knowing my heart. That is why you are by definition, wrong.

you:
What gets me is you think God tells you to get drunk, and smoke weed and then you trying to pull semantics on me saying define drunk, and weed is really not that bad, man made that up.

me:
Semantics? I asked you a legitimate quesiton that you can't answer, so you call it 'semantics'. THAT's pretty lame...

WHEN does one go from having a drink, to being drunk? Is it when you get dizzy? Is it when you fall down? Is it when you feel that first warmth?

Oh, I get it, drunk to you, is when YOU think you should stop... oh, so... maybe, just maybe, it's a SPIRITUAL individual thing? AHA!!! so we don't have to give each other blood alcohol level tests, but gosh, we have to be responsible every moment to hear the Spirit, and follow him?

Yes, if you can start to grasp that, then you can start to understand that so it is with EVERYTHING.

As workouts are individual, as body reactions are individual, it could be no other way. There are general guidelines, but Dad is a lot more fun than that. For those willing, for those able, he will step in and take you to the moon. "For the eyes of the Lord go to and fro throughout the earth, to show himself strong on behalf of those who's hearts are perfect towards him".

My heart is perfect towards God. There is nothing I want but God.

When you are in this state, God can do miracles and change everything. People begin to get healed. Demons flee, people are set free, and love flows straight from the throne of God.

The church see's precious little of these things, for there as prophesied, "shall come a famine in the land, not of bread and water, but of hearing the word of the Lord".

The bible is being preached everywhere now, that 'word' is the living breathing utterance of God that brings life, healing, love, and casts out all fear.

You made that prophecy come true. I did too, for 20 years. I preached dead lies about obediance to my interpretation of scripture, but I missed the whole point.... I did not know that what I have now existed. I thought I had everything down. But it wasn't enough. I used to pray for hours a day, for years and years, weeping, asking God to bring revival.

And so he has answered me and let me have life, filled with his presence every moment of every day, so sweet, so intimate... and I get to see things daily that other men think are rare.

you:
You are very delsional in that respect. I read my Bible daily and study, pray, and ask questions, I know that I am on the right path, but somewhere you got off. If you want a Bible debate then bring the verses on I will be happy to do it, New Testamant or Old Testamant it makes no differance, otherwise lets go our seperate ways and agree to disagree and end these posts.


me:
Knock yourself out man, I asked you that from the very first post. You have been avoiding it. I've already given you tons of scripture that you have ignored. You brush truth aside with a wave saying it's delusional, yet you cannot respond?

If you are right, then this should have been an easy task for you, to show how you are right... to show your knowledge and understanding of scripture.

I believe you know some, but I don't think you know how to apply it. If you did, you could have dominated me without attacking my person.

We show our hearts in how we use words. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Why not go back to my seond or 3rd post and start showing how wrong I am, straight from scripture?

you:
By the way I watched the Matrix last night and God told me to have sex with someone with AIDS so I do not judges those with AIDS. Sounds pretty foolish right? Now you know how fooish it is to think that God told you to get drunk and smoke weed!

me:
You obviosly don't believe in God's power and love nearly enough. I understand, you've not lived a life of walking in moment by moment relationship. You can only come up with odd ideas that you personally can't imagine 'God' would do... and he can't, not as you know him, but that's what I'm saying the Matrix lies of the church do...

See, the enemy has no power over a child of God, he can only get them to believe lies. If he can get you to think God is small and limited and only acts by certain rules, then wham, you are no longer a threat. He can brush you aside, you are in a pod living a tiny life controlled by rules and regulations rather than an actual personal relationship.

Go through the bible and watch the 'God would never do that' list get smaller and smaller.

Hey Joe, my donkey spoke last night and prophesied to me.

"God would never do that"

Hey Joe, God lowered a big sheet full of dirty animals and told me to eat them.

"God would never do that"

Hey Joe, God told me to go kill innocent children and rip up the bellys of pregnant women with a sword.

"God would never do that" (and I have to say, I always questioned that one myself... but then war sucks no matter what)

Hey Joe, God made me eat grass for 7 years and made my fingernails like eagles claws.

"God would never do that"

Hey Joe, God told me to go buy a prostitute and marry her, and that she would be unfaithful to me.

"God would never do that"

Hey Joe, God said to take the city, we should march around it 7 days.

"God would never do that"


Would you like a much longer list? You believe the bible, remember?

Yes, I think it is very possible, and in fact I have seen it personally, that God would have you risk a horrible disease to save someone.

What you completely don't understand in all of this, is that YOU are not in control of it. GOD has to tell you what to do. You just making up things and calling them ludicrous, well, they ARE ludicrous.

Until GOD says it, keep your mouth shut and mind your own business, that's my motto.

You just don't hear from God, I guess, and I'm sorry. I was in the same boat. I thought I DID hear from him, but now I know it was nearly deaf and he was shouting. Now I can hear my Father's whisper, and the results are always miraculous and fruitful (of the lasting kind).

But please, feel free to do the scripture only thing. I know you cannot possibly believe me about these things. You don't have the faith or relationship with God to be able to. Your still drinking milk when you should be eating meat (no insult intended, I'm quoting scripture to you as I'm sure you realize).

I'm sure your quite the nice and charitable guy in person. Most guys are okay, so long as you don't threaten their world with idea's. We are all made of the same stuff.

 

[garyzilla]

Here we go:

1. If you had been reading my posts you would have seen that I anwsered the question about weed. The Bible tells us to obey the laws of the land, or the laws in our case of the united states. You believe that much? 1 Tim 2:2! The only time we are to not obey the laws of the land is when they go against what God said for us to do. Weed, MaryJane whatever you want to call it is illegeal to have, smoke ect.. in the United States, for that makes it wrong.

2. Drinking is not wrong, having a beer every now and then is OK. The problem is when you get drunk. 1 Tim 3:1-7 this as you shold know is the qualification of a Pastor which can also be applied Christians. The point here is to find maturarity. One of the qualifications is not getting drunk. Now everyone gets drunk at differnet amounts, but you said you got drunk. So it does not matter how much you had, you stated you reached that amount when you said that you got drunk. Which tells me accourding to 1 TIM 3:1-7 what a mature Christians looks like, you might not be one.

3. Lets move on to judging. Your right I am not judge another person. But how do we know if they are a Christian or not? If they are one of us? By what Jesus said, "By there Fruits you will know them" What fruits? That is a good question, and I have the anwser: The ones found in Gal 5, and 1 Tim 3:1-7. I can look at those two passages and compare them to other people and if they do not match up to what the Bible says is the standard, and I can come to the conclusion either they are very backsliden, or they are not a Christian st all.

4. You say that there are no rules, that we are not under the law. Your right we are not under the curse iof the law. But there are things that we are commanded to do. We are to partake of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11), we are to Baptize people, Tell other about Christ (Matt 28:19-20), we are not to forsake the assembeling of each other (Hebrews), the list goes on. We still are to obey all put one of the 10 commandments.

5. You talked about the 7 churches in Rev chapters 1-3. You know that John was tlaking to real churhces doing his time. If you do not believe me than look up any history book on during that time and you will see. Also the was another point. To point out to us today what to be and not to become as a church. There are church that are being praised like the church at Smyrna, and sad to say there are churches today that are like the church at Laodicea. But the point is that untill Revalations happens we are still in the church age.

6. For me the reason why I would not want to smoke weed, is the great damage it does to your body. Smokeing one joint is like smoking 110 cigs a one time. You know the cigs kill people. I am going to die anyway, why on earth would I want to speed up the process. As far as getting drunk, suppid stuff happens when one is drunk. Drunk people get in cars and kill other people, drunk people say stupid stuff and get themselves in trouble.

 

[Neodavid]

you:
1. If you had been reading my posts you would have seen that I anwsered the question about weed. The Bible tells us to obey the laws of the land, or the laws in our case of the united states. You believe that much? 1 Tim 2:2! The only time we are to not obey the laws of the land is when they go against what God said for us to do. Weed, MaryJane whatever you want to call it is illegeal to have, smoke ect.. in the United States, for that makes it wrong.

me:
The problem here is you didn't read my reply. I already answered this one. We aught to obey God rather than man.

I am NOT arguing everyone should smoke weed, that would be silly. I am telling you that when you have a direct relationship with God, and he tells you to do something, to NOT do it, is sin.

You keep arguing against a straw man, as though I'm saying something I'm not. You have to read what I write, exactly what I write, and not jump to conclusions.

If you had read my last post, you would know that. You would know I don't support someone even going to a Bambi movie, or assuming ANYTHING, unless God tells them.

The law in the mean time, is a schoolmaster, leading us to Christ. You are still under it, as you choose it over a personal relationship with God. You are choosing obediance to the law over a love relationship, personal and intimate. Cowardly thing to do... cheap and easy.

you:
2. Drinking is not wrong, having a beer every now and then is OK. The problem is when you get drunk. 1 Tim 3:1-7 this as you shold know is the qualification of a Pastor which can also be applied Christians. The point here is to find maturarity. One of the qualifications is not getting drunk. Now everyone gets drunk at differnet amounts, but you said you got drunk. So it does not matter how much you had, you stated you reached that amount when you said that you got drunk. Which tells me accourding to 1 TIM 3:1-7 what a mature Christians looks like, you might not be one.

me:
Until you tell me how one can tell which kind of drunk is 'okay', you are wasting your breath. Alcohol in your system... how much??? Where does scripture draw the line?

It doesn't, because as I've said 4 times before, and what you have ignored continually, is that it is INDIVIDUAL.

And when God tells you to do something, you do it, period, end of story.

"Not given to wine" is the phrase, by the way, which means one has not given themselves to using wine past what God tells him too. This would be apparent to others, as the man would be drunk at times he clearly needed to be sober... perhaps drunk on the job, or at church, etc.

It is really clear to me that you aren't even reading what I write... you just keep spouting off the same things, over and over again, despite my clear responses that show you they don't apply.

WHY? What are you so afraid of? Man, you are SO trapped in your little box.

you:
3. Lets move on to judging. Your right I am not judge another person. But how do we know if they are a Christian or not? If they are one of us? By what Jesus said, "By there Fruits you will know them" What fruits? That is a good question, and I have the anwser: The ones found in Gal 5, and 1 Tim 3:1-7. I can look at those two passages and compare them to other people and if they do not match up to what the Bible says is the standard, and I can come to the conclusion either they are very backsliden, or they are not a Christian st all.

me:
I've told you about the fruit of the spirit before, since you don't know me, this can have no bearing.

On Timothy, we aren't looking for a Bishop, we are talking about whether or not God might ever tell someone to smoke weed.

Your judgments that my smoking weed was wrong, is ludicrous and has no basis in scripture.

I happen to fit Pauls description in Timothy, to the letter, and better yet, to the spirit of it.

you:
4. You say that there are no rules, that we are not under the law. Your right we are not under the curse iof the law. But there are things that we are commanded to do. We are to partake of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11), we are to Baptize people, Tell other about Christ (Matt 28:19-20), we are not to forsake the assembeling of each other (Hebrews), the list goes on. We still are to obey the 10 commandments.

me:
You haven't got a clue, my friend.

Until you understand the following, you won't make it out.

Jesus said... Jesus, the one you claim you follow, said, "Love God with all of your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. This fulfills ALL of the LAW, and ALL of the prophets" (the rest of scripture).

Read that and really let it penetrate.

Remember who said it. Jesus...


I don't kill people, not because of the 10 commandments, but because of LOVE.

Love is the basis for everything. If you love, you need no commandments, and as Jesus said, ALL is fulfilled.

you:
5. You talked about the 7 churches in Rev chapters 1-3. You know that John was tlaking to real churhces doing his time. If you do not believe me than look up any history book on during that time and you will see. Also the was another point. To point out to us today what not to become. There are church like are being praised like the church at Smyrna, and sad to say there are church today that are like the church at Laodicea. But the point is that untill Revalations happens we are still in the church age.

me:
Sorry, thought you were familiar with the 7 ages in the church age... Nevermind then. But you fit Laodiceans, lukewarm people following the law by mouth, but their spirits were far from God. They could not hear what he was saying to them. They thought they were doing well when in fact they were about to die.

A man who cannot concieve that HE might be wrong, can never be corrected. You can never be corrected, because you cannot possibly believe you could be wrong.

So much so, you invent me saying things and argue against things I don't even support (everyone smoking weed).

Logically, your fallacy is called generalization. In debate that's a term meaning you take an individual action and try to show it is wrong by applying it 'generally'.

That by definition, is a fallacy of logic. Look it up.


It's Revelation, by the way, singular. The book of Revelation.

It's also not a future event, but covers the entire church age. You are thinking of the parts which discuss the anti-Christ and Tribulation period.

Read what John said about the 'when' in the begining. But not a problem, we aren't discussing eschatology, just drinking and smoking weed, and what God might or might not tell an individual to do.

you:
6. For me the reason why I would not want to smoke weed, is the great damage it does to your body. Smokeing one joint is like smoking 110 cigs a one time. You know the cigs kill people. I am going to die anyway, why on earth would I want to speed up the process. As far as getting drunk, suppid stuff happens when one is drunk. Drunk people get in cars and kill other people, drunk people say stupid stuff and get themselves in trouble.

me:
You know, if you ever actually read one of my posts, you would know this already (smile).

I told you... I told you.... listen carefully...

God often tells individuals things to do which are VERY bad for them. Going to WAR, for instance, is bad for you generally speaking. Being dead is not a healthy thing.

You obviously didn't even bother to read my last post. Your lame to talk to man, sorry, but you are. Go talk to someone who just wants to hear YOU, and not actually be heard themselves... That's impolite and miserable.

If you are ever interested in actually responding to what I SAY, let me know. In the mean time, your writings are manufactured reality, something not even happening. You shadow box in your matrix rather than actually talking to me.

I really do get surprised every time this happens. So many people are so small minded, especially church people. They can't even hear, they plug their ears and say "la la la la la" while you speak, lest some truth might get in.

Once again, for the record, my claim is this...

Nothing is right or wrong in and of itself. A thing is right or wrong because GOD told a person it was right or wrong, for them, at that time.

A gun is not evil. Weed is not evil.

HOW you use them, MAY or may NOT be evil, depending on whether or not you are hearing from God about it.

Try responding to that... Be honest, and REALLY THINK once. STay on the subject, not on what You jump to in your matrix. Remember WHAT I SAID for a minute.

We are under LOVE, not the LAW. Love is MUCH MORE STRINGENT THAN THE LAW. Love will have you sacrifice your life for another, give of yourself in painful ways, cost you a lot of money, etc.

If the law is FULFILLED my friend, then it is FULFILLED. Stop living there.

Realize that love is a much better way. The law is for idiots who don't know how to love and have a personal relationship with God, moment by moment. The Law is for children... children of this world. It is NOT for God's children.

Now the humorous part here to me is, you will not hear that, you will think I'm trying to argue that everyone gets to do anything they want anytime they want, because there is no law.

You really are kind of dense man, cause what I said, was that love is MORE stringent than the law. Living in love is MUCH more demanding, but also infinitely more rewarding and intimate.

Do you get that? Can you sit down and comprehend the idea?

Or do you prefer to imagine I just want to live life the way I want to...

Whatever my man, whatever.

 

[garyzilla]

Dude, I cannot talk to you because you take the things I say out of context. I am going to end this because not matter what I say you are going to tell me that I am wrong, no matter how right I am. Good luck.