Religion!

[Neodavid]

And you make claims like that without ever explaining yourself? No examples, nothing?

I spoke clearly and took nothing out of context. You REPLIED out of context, that's true, arguing people shouldn't smoke weed because it's bad for them, when all I said was God told ME to do it...

I don't blame you for ending it, just wish you would have read what I said more carefully, and responded to IT, rather than with religious cliche and oversimplification.

You responded to my post after I posted, than possible, if you had actually taken the time to read it carefully and thoughtfully. But you've been doing that all along. Gets to be a pain after a while.

I disagree with your assesment that I would say you were wrong no matter what. If you were RIGHT, you would simply be able to destroy my arguments. You can't, so you have to back off saying I'm the unreasonable one.

I understand. I told you that's how it would be in one of my first posts. One simply cannot argue against plain truth. You just frustrate yourself.

But maybe you have a hint that your view is too small and easy, too meaningless to be worthwhile. Better to have a living breathing relationship with God, than to worship your interpretation of a book.

No hard feelings man, live and let live.

Dude, I cannot talk to you because you take the things I say out of context. I am going to end this because not matter what I say you are going to tell me that I am wrong, no matter how right I am. Good luck.

 

[garyzilla]

And you make claims like that without ever explaining yourself? No examples, nothing?

I spoke clearly and took nothing out of context. You REPLIED out of context, that's true, arguing people shouldn't smoke weed because it's bad for them, when all I said was God told ME to do it...

I don't blame you for ending it, just wish you would have read what I said more carefully, and responded to IT, rather than with religious cliche and oversimplification.

You responded to my post after I posted, than possible, if you had actually taken the time to read it carefully and thoughtfully. But you've been doing that all along. Gets to be a pain after a while.

I disagree with your assesment that I would say you were wrong no matter what. If you were RIGHT, you would simply be able to destroy my arguments. You can't, so you have to back off saying I'm the unreasonable one.

I understand. I told you that's how it would be in one of my first posts. One simply cannot argue against plain truth. You just frustrate yourself.

But maybe you have a hint that your view is too small and easy, too meaningless to be worthwhile. Better to have a living breathing relationship with God, than to worship your interpretation of a book.

No hard feelings man, live and let live.

I am just wondering where you went to Bible School at, and did you graduate?

 

[garyzilla]

I live on the east cost and it is 7pm here, You need to watch NBC right now becasue they are tlaking about what you believe.

 

[Neodavid]

I told you I had a degree in theology, so obviously I graduated. Why would you cast that asperson?

From that, I gather you now want to know, so you can... poison the well by using what you believe to be a bad education? at least that's my personal bet. I've seen this a lot before.

When someone can't destroy your arguments, they go for you, trying to poison the well. they look for anything that might be a weakness or make you look bad.

Too bad they can't actually argue logically using scripture and a good heart.

BUT, maybe there is something better in your motivations than I imagine. Love hopes and believes all things, right?

I'll answer, with the provision you understand my education messed me up for 20 years, made my life miserable as I tried to follow their way of thinking. I'll also assume you aren't going to brow beat me saying shame on you for going against your school.

They would NOT like me now. They in fact would agree with you.

I graduated from Bob Jones University, known as the worlds largest fundamental University. It's a great place, people mostly either want to kiss or spit at it, if they know of the place.

There are many great men of god there, most of whom are trapped in the Matrix, but nevertheless, they are great men.

If that changes your opinion of me one bit, or allows you to think you know me, you are missing the whole idea of what it is to have a real relationship with someone as they are NOW.

Where we have been has little bearing on what has been in our heart all along. the character and integrity of a man is what is important. His relationship with god, pre-eminent.

But I'm doing a guessing game there from experience, not knowing you, so I only say that to show you my own experiences with people. Most in the church are very small, selfish, prejudiced, and unreasonable, while imagining they are the next best thing to sliced bread. They think they are wise, but have become fools (more scripture for you).

Those not that way, go to church to serve as they might be useful, keeping their mouths shut about such things. At least that's how I've seen it.

so, my non steroid user friend, see you in the forums.

I am just wondering where you went to Bible School at, and did you graduate?

 

[garyzilla]

I told you I had a degree in theology, so obviously I graduated. Why would you cast that asperson?

From that, I gather you now want to know, so you can... poison the well by using what you believe to be a bad education? at least that's my personal bet. I've seen this a lot before.

When someone can't destroy your arguments, they go for you, trying to poison the well. they look for anything that might be a weakness or make you look bad.

Too bad they can't actually argue logically using scripture and a good heart.

BUT, maybe there is something better in your motivations than I imagine. Love hopes and believes all things, right?

I'll answer, with the provision you understand my education messed me up for 20 years, made my life miserable as I tried to follow their way of thinking. I'll also assume you aren't going to brow beat me saying shame on you for going against your school.

They would NOT like me now. They in fact would agree with you.

I graduated from Bob Jones University, known as the worlds largest fundamental University. It's a great place, people mostly either want to kiss or spit at it, if they know of the place.

There are many great men of god there, most of whom are trapped in the Matrix, but nevertheless, they are great men.

If that changes your opinion of me one bit, or allows you to think you know me, you are missing the whole idea of what it is to have a real relationship with someone as they are NOW.

Where we have been has little bearing on what has been in our heart all along. the character and integrity of a man is what is important. His relationship with god, pre-eminent.

But I'm doing a guessing game there from experience, not knowing you, so I only say that to show you my own experiences with people. Most in the church are very small, selfish, prejudiced, and unreasonable, while imagining they are the next best thing to sliced bread. They think they are wise, but have become fools (more scripture for you).

Those not that way, go to church to serve as they might be useful, keeping their mouths shut about such things. At least that's how I've seen it.

so, my non steroid user friend, see you in the forums.

Thanks for anwsering my question. But you have to turn to NBC right now, they are tlaking about what you believe

 

[Neodavid]

Nice...

Okay, so when you lose or give up on a conversation you turn into a jerk? Sheesh...

There are a lot of nuts in the world, and then there are jerks... those people on TV are nuts, you can see they have no love, no fruit of the spirit.

Thanks for wasting my time man. And you think you get to go to heaven, with your attitude?

That's why religion is the opiate of the masses. People like you can be jerks to others and then imagine they are still going to heaven. They have no real love and patience, but think that's okay cause "Jesus paid it all".

He did, but not if you follow religion rather than him. God is love, remember that. We are to be as god is... full of love.

Thanks for anwsering my question. But you have to turn to NBC right now, they are tlaking about what you believe

 

[garyzilla]

Nice...

Okay, so when you lose or give up on a conversation you turn into a jerk? Sheesh...

There are a lot of nuts in the world, and then there are jerks... those people on TV are nuts, you can see they have no love, no fruit of the spirit.

Thanks for wasting my time man. And you think you get to go to heaven, with your attitude?

That's why religion is the opiate of the masses. People like you can be jerks to others and then imagine they are still going to heaven. They have no real love and patience, but think that's okay cause "Jesus paid it all".

He did, but not if you follow religion rather than him. God is love, remember that. We are to be as god is... full of love.

What on earth are you talking about. I am jerk, nice! If you saw the begining of the show you would know what I am talking about! Now the show is nuts. But God told then to do it. Like smoking weed. as you even said God tells us to do things sometimes that are not goo for us. This is exactlly what this family did.

 

[Neodavid]

The show is about a religious nut who killed his own son, what else could I imagine you meant?

You are comparing me to that group, aren't you? I find that offensive, but I'm not like totally bent out of shape... just surprised.

If something else happened at the begining, okay, but the show is about a murderer who used religion as an excuse.

At least that's how they are portraying it. He starved his kid to death...

That's just nasty man.

What on earth are you talking about. I am jerk, nice! If you saw the begining of the show you would know what I am talking about!

 

[garyzilla]

The show is about a religious nut who killed his own son, what else could I imagine you meant?

You are comparing me to that group, aren't you? I find that offensive, but I'm not like totally bent out of shape... just surprised.

If something else happened at the begining, okay, but the show is about a murderer who used religion as an excuse.

At least that's how they are portraying it. He starved his kid to death...

That's just nasty man.

you had to see the begining to see what I ment, you missed it! Bye! But I can why you are the way you are if you went to Bob Jones!

 

[Neodavid]

Ah, there you go, you did the deed... condemned me and blamed me, based on what you imagine my education was like...

Nice...

Thought you might, said you probably would, just disappointed you actually did it.

Again as I said before, Bob Jones would be against my views now.

Nice, guy, really nice.

you had to see the begining to see what I ment, you missed it! Bye! But I can why you are the way you are if you went to Bob Jones!

 

[garyzilla]

Ah, there you go, you did the deed... condemned me and blamed me, based on what you imagine my education was like...

Nice...

Thought you might, said you probably would, just disappointed you actually did it.

I just know Bob Jones very well. Sounds to me from your posts you do not like Bob Jones that well either, am I right? Or if you had the chance would you go back to BJU?

 

[Neodavid]

Well, I told mentioned they would not agree with me, I told you I thought they were trapped in the matrix of the church. I thought it was obviously I wouldn't go back, they have nothing to offer me. I don't agree with them.

What do you think you know so well about Bob Jones?

I honestly thought perhaps you had gone there. You argued as they would. That's why your arguments are so familiar.

I just know Bob Jones very well. Sounds to me from your posts you do not like Bob Jones that well either, am I right? Or if you had the chance would you go back to BJU?

 

[AnimalMass]

I'm really good with your statement except for the part about practicing it in public, which I am not sure I understand.

I'm against religion, personally, but I think of religion as a system of rules and regulations based on someone's experience and interpretation of a text (like the bible).

I'm for a relationship with God, and for others practicing the results of that relationship. I don't know how a person could avoid practicing religion in public, if 'that' is what you mean. But if you mean the rules and regs thing, and by publically, people annoying others by stepping into their space, I'd agree. But then again I'm against those food court people at the mall trying to get me to taste their wares as I walk by.

The problem with religion for me, is it's poisonous. There isn't anything useful in it. Groups of people trying to spread a specific belief is irritating, and kills the poor suckers doing the work.

Having a relationship with God is great, but churches pervert the joy of that relationship by getting gullible people, well meaning people, to think that the church somehow represents God's authority on earth.

My story is I met God at 18, went to bible college and got my degree in theoology, and then spent 20 frustrating years trying to match my relationship with God, with what the church said.

Then one day watching "The Matrix", God shows up and tells me my problem is I'm trapped by the matrix of the church and religion. When the scene came up where Neo dodges the bullets, I couldn't move at all, and God said, "That's you". I thought that was amazing and cool, until the end of the movie, after Neo dies and is resurrected, having total control over the matrix. Then God said, "That's where I want you to be".

20 years of religion went out the window, and very odd things have happened since.

An example of things God is for the church is against... alcohol and weed. I had not taken a drink in 40 years of life, not one. After this, God told me to go get some alcohol and get drunk. My parents were alcoholics, and he said I needed to not be afraid. Also, he said if you drink, there is no chance you can ever judge someone else who drinks, or has a problem with it controlling their lives.

So drunk I got, and it was nothing. The room spun around and I got a kick out of the fact that I KNEW that corner of the room was not moving, that I was not moving, but there is was anyway, moving.

Then he had me get weed. Then he had me get drunk while smoking weed, and then make love while smoking and drunk. Let me tell you, my wife's and my relationship has become INCREDIBLY intense and intimate because of these things.

Anyway, the church is f'd up big time, and the people in it, are in a matrix of lies. There are agents and all manner of evil keeping good people DOING things rather than HAVING a relationship, a love affair, with God and their neighbors. It's 11:39. Eleven 11 will understand that one... Numbers are a big thing with God.

As one once trapped by the matrix, I now try to set others free of it.

All practical truth can be summed up in this, "Love God with all of your heart, and your neigbor as yourself".

Religion is a set of lies that tell you HOW you should go about doing that. They are wrong. A love affair knows no bounds, no borders. To quote Neo's last phone scene, "I'm going to show them a world, a world without borders or boundries... where we go from there, I leave up to you."

For what it's worth, I'm juicing because God told me to. Practicing my religion in public for me, is juicing, drinking, and having a good time. Part of that may sometime include my telling people who ask, how great God is in your life, but to me that's the same as just being at the store and a kid says to me, "Why run, life sucks, why make it last longer". I said, "Well, for 20 minutes 5 days a week, you can nail your wife a lot longer and harder, and she will want to do it more..."

Wow - I should have gotten into this sooner. Man, just want to let you know that I don't judge you one bit. As a matter of fact, as odd as it sounds, I love you. I could sense the pain in your response. However, you need to understand that you do not have a love relationship with Christ at all. I'll pray for you and pray that God gives you the gift of faith so that you might believe in Him and make him your Lord.

If you want to see the light all you have to do is open then Bible. Those of you who are skeptics should just read the Gospel of John and see what happens. God doesn't need me, or Phreezer, or Bob, or Gary to envangelize the world. His word speaks so much more than I could ever say. Feel free to read John with a skeptical mind and attitude. God will speak to you. If he doesn't, you haven't lost anything then, right?

Matt

 

[AnimalMass]

Yes, and also the same God who believes that Jews will go to hell, that little children should be compelled to recite the Lord's prayer whether their parents are evangelical or not, that childrens' aid societies should be free to abduct the children of gay parents, and that the separation of (christian) church and state should be done away with, thus turning America into a theocratic state much like Iran.

Do you mean like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, who publicly profess born-again Christian values while lying through their teeth?

While you're at it garyzilla, perhaps you can explain to me why the meanest, most narrow-minded, most authoritarian, most downright vicious people in the world tend to be fundamentalists, and why the kindest, most generous and considerate people tend to be agnostics or people who worship non-evangelical faiths.

For what it's worth, the Jews, if they don't believe in Jesus will go to hell. I could care less about little kids reciting the Lord's prayer, children should be taken from gay parents, and seperation of church and state was intended by our forefathers to keep the politics of the state from corrupting the church, not to keep God and morals out of the leadership of the country.

I cannot answer for the president or Rumsfeld, or anyone for that matter, and unfortunately you cannot either. I do believe that there are many, many people out there who claim to be Christians, who are not. - These people embody nothing that a Christian should be. And I also know some of the nicest people I've ever met are athiests. Unfortunately that is neither here nor there as salvation is not an issue of works (good or bad) but rather an issue of God choosing to have a love relationship with us.

I apologize for the people who have clained Christianity and are mean-spirited, giving God a bod name. Please understand, however, that you will not answer to God for those people one day. You will answer for yourself.

Matt

 

[AnimalMass]

Let me just say this to sum up one of the most troubling threads I've ever read. NeoDavid, I'm sorry you feel the way you do. You are obviously seeking a true love relationship with God. I hope you find it. Beyond that again, all I ask is that you fall in love with the word of God. You don't need to argue or debate people on this forum with views other than your own. Read the words of Christ with your heart, not your head and allow God to speak to you.

His word never returns void.

I do love you man, and I appreciate your convictions. Greyowl, I feel the same for you. Just do me a favor as a friend and read the Gospel of John in it's entirety. If God doens't speak to you, then hey, you win. Just know that I am sorry for the way you both have been treated by so called "Christians" in the past. They will be held accountable for their actions. But don't use their hypocracy as an excuse to condemn your own life to hell.

I don't want to see any of you end up in hell. And neither does God. The Bible says that He desires that all men come to know Him. And that is my prayer for you two.

Matt

 

[Phreezer]

As AM said.. the bible is the key. Most people who are the quickest to speak negativly of the bible are usually the last people to ever read it. Finding a church and participating in it is one thing.. but finding salvation and the lord is something else altogether.

Before you start looking at a doctrine and before you decide to either move toward or away from a particular Christian organization you need to open up the bible.. In my oppinion if a person wants to find God, or a person wants to form an educated oppinion about Christ, Then that person should open the New Testament of the Holy Bible. (NIV or New King James are both very easy to understand) Open up the new Testament And read the first two books. Mathew and Mark. These deal wholy with the life of Christ and his teachings. And IMO these are two of the greatest books in the bible.

People believe that becoming saved is a difficult task, or that they are not good enough. Or that they don't have what it takes. These things are completely untrue! First off, God would have none of us fall. He constantly puts things in our lives that will lead us to him.. (it could be you reading this thread) This is just one of the many ways that he tries to approach us. Becoming born again is very easy. In fact, it's as easy as ABC.

A Admit that you are a sinner and that you need God.
B Believe that Christ Died on the cross and rose from the dead Three days later.
C Confess him as your savior and confess to him your sins and ask for his forgiveness.

That is it... It's that simple. The first step toward Salvation can be as simple as a prayer. I will even post a prayer that you can read. Just read the words below and believe them with your heart.

Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.


Don't get mired in Doctrine or Churches before you even have Christ in your life. God will lead you where he wants you to go. The bible says that He who is in you, is stronger than he who is in the world. Remember, it's as simple as A B C.

I will pray with anyone who would ask me... And I am open to any questions that you may have. I may not be able to answer all of them, but I promise you that I will try. And I will certainly try and point you in the right direction.

 

[Massive690]

im not much of the emotional and sensitive type that uses words like "beautiful" and "touching" much (unless its something like i was touching your beautiful breasts ) but phreezer... that prayer was beautiful and touching bro. definately a good one

 

[garyzilla]

As AM said.. the bible is the key. Most people who are the quickest to speak negativly of the bible are usually the last people to ever read it. Finding a church and participating in it is one thing.. but finding salvation and the lord is something else altogether.

Before you start looking at a doctrine and before you decide to either move toward or away from a particular Christian organization you need to open up the bible.. In my oppinion if a person wants to find God, or a person wants to form an educated oppinion about Christ, Then that person should open the New Testament of the Holy Bible. (NIV or New King James are both very easy to understand) Open up the new Testament And read the first two books. Mathew and Mark. These deal wholy with the life of Christ and his teachings. And IMO these are two of the greatest books in the bible.

People believe that becoming saved is a difficult task, or that they are not good enough. Or that they don't have what it takes. These things are completely untrue! First off, God would have none of us fall. He constantly puts things in our lives that will lead us to him.. (it could be you reading this thread) This is just one of the many ways that he tries to approach us. Becoming born again is very easy. In fact, it's as easy as ABC.

A Admit that you are a sinner and that you need God.
B Believe that Christ Died on the cross and rose from the dead Three days later.
C Confess him as your savior and confess to him your sins and ask for his forgiveness.

That is it... It's that simple. The first step toward Salvation can be as simple as a prayer. I will even post a prayer that you can read. Just read the words below and believe them with your heart.

Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.


Don't get mired in Doctrine or Churches before you even have Christ in your life. God will lead you where he wants you to go. The bible says that He who is in you, is stronger than he who is in the world. Remember, it's as simple as A B C.

I will pray with anyone who would ask me... And I am open to any questions that you may have. I may not be able to answer all of them, but I promise you that I will try. And I will certainly try and point you in the right direction.

Nice post Phreezer!

 

[VDC]

Foolish and unlearned questions avoid for they do engender strife.",,,The details of our walk with God are between Him and me(You and Him),,,They called Jesus a wine bibber and a glutton,,,He did change the water into wine,,,and the head of the feast said that they saved the good wine until then,,,Meaning He made some very good wine,,,Now I see that as a teaching of how the water of the Word which cleans us up turns into wine when we are clean and can see the Word clearly,,,Now when we love our neighbor as Ourself,,,Well we know our weaknesses and that the only good in us comes from Him,,,So when our neighbor is trapped by his own world, even after he is saved, then we must forgive him,,,Love covers a multitude of sins,,,Our world is comprised of our description of it,,,These frames are our words,,,When we receive the engrafted word we begin to die out to our worldview and start to see through God's eyes,,,Yes at the beginning its "through a glass darkly",,,but we are to grow up into the head in all things,,,Then we shall see face to face,,,and seeing clearly we are changed into that image,,,The thing observed is changed by the observer,,,On this journey Mercy is tatamount to survival,,,To not forgive is to condemn,,,To condemn is to judge one worthy of death,,,Jesus said he is come that we might have life and to have it more abundantly,,,He came not to condemn the world but that the world might be saved by him,,,Just love and all will be well,,,VDC

 

[Neodavid]

AnimalMass,

I'm not sure you understand, seems like you think I don't believe in God or the Bible. Quite the contrary!

I believe every word in the bible. It's the plenary verbally inspired word of God. I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. My favorite book is John, because it so plainly presents Christ as God in the flesh.

What I am saying is the church has lost it's way and has followed legalism rather than a relationship with Christ. They have stopped following the Spirit in a personal relationship, intimate, and moment by moment.

I'm all for the true believers, I'm all for God's word, I'm all for Salvation through Christ. It's why I'm still alive, it's my reason for getting up in the morning. My life is full of love and grace and glory.

But the teachings in the church are poisoned. Not scripture, Animal, but the way the church teaches it.

Garyzilla condemned me for believing God told me to get drunk. I asked him to prove it was wrong, FROM SCRIPTURE. He could not. So he used church teaching, and rather bad application to try...

I then went off on a nut explaining why the church is all messed up, because they choose legalism over love. See the book of Galations. Read it really thoroughly... "You who were FREE, WHY have you fallen back under the law????" That's Paul the apostle, brother, Paul... not me.

My good bro could not find anywhere getting drunk was a sin. HE could only find things like excess, gluttonly, etc. My argument was I got drunk once because God told me to, not that I was for alcoholism.

In fact I didn't drink anything for 40 years, and that was God's point, to get me to be free from that frear. My parents had been alcoholics, so I was afraid I had that weakness. I don't. But that was the only way to show me, to set me free. God's in the setting free business.

God is love, but people use the bible to bash and judge.

THAT is the opposite of truth, the opposite of Christ, but it IS the natural result of the church's teachings. They eat knowledge, when God is interested in their hearts. "My people die for lack of understanding", doesn't mean they don't KNOW things, it's that they don't UNDERSTAND that God is all about love, not judgment.

I appreciate the advice to read John, but please understand I know and love it already. I can read it in Koine greek if you like, I went and got a degree in theology 22 years ago.

I'm all for the bible bro, just against the poison in the church that keeps people from God, from love, and makes them judge others.

For the record, I met Christ when I was 18. I fell on the floor when I saw my great sin of not loving God, and my neighbor as myself. He came to me and set me free, forgave me, and changed my heart and life.

So there ya go bro, hope that clears this up.

Wow - I should have gotten into this sooner. Man, just want to let you know that I don't judge you one bit. As a matter of fact, as odd as it sounds, I love you. I could sense the pain in your response. However, you need to understand that you do not have a love relationship with Christ at all. I'll pray for you and pray that God gives you the gift of faith so that you might believe in Him and make him your Lord.

If you want to see the light all you have to do is open then Bible. Those of you who are skeptics should just read the Gospel of John and see what happens. God doesn't need me, or Phreezer, or Bob, or Gary to envangelize the world. His word speaks so much more than I could ever say. Feel free to read John with a skeptical mind and attitude. God will speak to you. If he doesn't, you haven't lost anything then, right?

Matt