Resting Heart Rate

[Ghoul]

Figured I'd share in case it's helpful for anyone. And also want to see what others have experienced.

Pre-cycle RHR was in the 50-55 range. Started 500mg/wk test e and after it saturated my RHR had increased to the 80-85 range. Added primo and after 2 weeks ramped to 400mg/wk (stupid!) and RHR got into the 90's. Other unpleasant side effects here as well. Dropped primo dosage down to 200/wk. After a couple weeks RHR went back to the 80-85 range. Also added a ton more walking/long low effort cardio along the way while researching and ordering accessory meds.

Ended up adding 80mg telmisartan (ARB) and 5mg lisinopril (ACE-Inhibitor) daily in hopes of reducing it and because they're what arrived first. A little over a week on those and I didn't see much improvement to RHR. Did see BP improve slightly but it wasn't as concerning as my RHR.

Yesterday I added 5mg nebivolol (beta blocker) and the today my RHR average has been 66.

I already expected the beta blocker to be better for heart rate but I wasn't expecting that much of a change that quickly. Course it could also be possibly the ARB & ACE-I needed that week to start working. But the big change the day after adding nebivolol seems to point to it being the main thing.

Anyone got similar experiences w/ lowering RHR?

There are a million BP combos out there because response is very individual. If Telm 80 / 5 lis only had a minor impact try Telmaheal 80 AM, which is 80mg Telmasartin / 5mg Amlodipine (a calcium channel blocker). Poor responders to ACE often respond well to calcium channel blockers.

Also, calcium channel blockers. *slow resting heart rate*.

PCT 24/7 has Telmaheal 80 AM (make sure it's AM) for $1 / 10 tab strip by special request.

 

[VakarianSK]

ACE and ARBs are first line monotherapy treatment for high BP and not RHR issues. When it comes to elevated RHR Beta Blockers are preferred when BP is normal.

 

[mknodc13]

You’re only taking 200 of each and you’re the jumps that high? I don’t get it, this is a low dose, perhaps you’re sensitive to e2?

So around the time I posted that message I was in the bad habit of changing my dose around a little too often. I've since discovered that every time I adjust my dose my body spends a few days waking me up at 2:00 am and cranking up the heart rate.
A week after that post I drew blood. e2 came back at 11, which I'm sure wasn't helping.
Right now my RHR is closer to 70.

 

[Mongo966]

Does trt dose keep it mid/60s or do you have to completely come off to get back to baseline?

Not really sure. I've never run a true trt dose. I'm usually on at least 200mg or nothing at all.

 

[NotHuman]

I had to stop taking Nebivolol unfortunately. I was getting debilitating fatigue and brain fog, I think because it was negatively impacting my thyroid, which already is sub optimal.

I'm been reading about a calcium channel blocker called Verapamil that also lowers heart rate, so I will experiment with that instead soon. If anyone has any experience with Verapamil, do share.

 

[NotHuman]

By the way, ARB's and ACE inhibitors do not lower resting heart rate. I don't know what made you think they would do that.

 

[VakarianSK]

I had to stop taking Nebivolol unfortunately. I was getting debilitating fatigue and brain fog, I think because it was negatively impacting my thyroid, which already is sub optimal.

I'm been reading about a calcium channel blocker called Verapamil that also lowers heart rate, so I will experiment with that instead soon. If anyone has any experience with Verapamil, do share.

If you remember I would love to hear how you like Verapamil. I've looked into calcium channel blockers just for future reference in case I ever needed to deploy them but I have yet to try them.

 

[Ghoul]

By the way, ARB's and ACE inhibitors do not lower resting heart rate. I don't know what made you think they would do that.

Valsartan is an ARB and significantly reduced my resting heart rate. My watch brought it to my attention two weeks after initiating the med, which is corroborated in literature.

 

[NotHuman]

If you remember I would love to hear how you like Verapamil. I've looked into calcium channel blockers just for future reference in case I ever needed to deploy them but I have yet to try them.

I wouldn't I say I like Verapamil because I have never actually used it. I am just aware of it because it can lower heart rate and it has a stronger effect on that than any drug that isn't a beta blocker, so it's worth considering.

 

[NotHuman]

Valsartan is an ARB and significantly reduced my resting heart rate. My watch brought it to my attention two weeks after initiating the med, which is corroborated in literature.

Interesting, I've never heard this before.

 

[Pinnacle Elements]

Also looking for a beta blocker source

@OP I would try to do more moderate intensity cardio as well to really get the heart rate going. It will go a long ways in bringing down your resting heart rate as well, as your heart gets stronger

Just ask your PCP. I got propranolol for off label public speaking in college

 

[Ghoul]

Interesting, I've never heard this before.

I was a little too light on details. I had been on an Amlodipine/Benazapril combo, and switched Amlodipine/Valsartan to stop the hair loss I started experiencing on the first combo.

My RHR dropped by 8bpm two weeks after the switch and stayed there. BP 120/70 was achieved in both combos.

The largest scale study of Valsartan showed an average of 3.4 bpm drop. I read somewhere that Valsartan also improves
aerobic performance. It also seems to be the best of the ARBs for increased libido and orgasm function. I was going to try Telmisartin for its boosted fat metabolism but I really like the way Valsartan feels and will stay on this nice single pill BP solution.

FWIW, Amlodipine seems to have a cialis like effect on me, making urine flow extremely easy, and giving me a day long "pump" down there, while as you probably know, the low dose combo of two BP meds tends to more effective than a single high dose med, with fewer sides.

If anyone wants the studies dm me, not at
hand atm.

 

[NotHuman]

I was a little too light on details. I had been on an Amlodipine/Benazapril combo, and switched Amlodipine/Valsartan to stop the hair loss I started experiencing on the first combo.

My RHR dropped by 8bpm two weeks after the switch and stayed there. BP 120/70 was achieved in both combos.

The largest scale study of Valsartan showed an average of 3.4 bpm drop. I read somewhere that Valsartan also improves
aerobic performance. It also seems to be the best of the ARBs for increased libido and orgasm function. I was going to try Telmisartin for its boosted fat metabolism but I really like the way Valsartan feels and will stay on this nice single pill BP solution.

FWIW, Amlodipine seems to have a cialis like effect on me, making urine flow extremely easy, and giving me a day long "pump" down there, while as you probably know, the low dose combo of two BP meds tends to more effective than a single high dose med, with fewer sides.

If anyone wants the studies dm me, not at
hand atm.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I know Valsartan is good since they included it in Entresto, the heart failure drug. I would be curious to know the differences between Valsartan and Telmisartan since I haven't researched Valsartan enough. I've been taking Telmisartan for about 8 years now. My blood pressure is really good these days (like 110/60ish) so I don't need to add a second (unless you count cialis which I use at 2.5mg daily). I do like the idea of Verapamil since it lowers heart rate, but I know Amlodipine is frequently used in the clinical setting.

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I know Valsartan is good since they included it in Entresto, the heart failure drug. I would be curious to know the differences between Valsartan and Telmisartan since I haven't researched Valsartan enough. I've been taking Telmisartan for about 8 years now. My blood pressure is really good these days (like 110/60ish) so I don't need to add a second (unless you count cialis which I use at 2.5mg daily). I do like the idea of Verapamil since it lowers heart rate, but I know Amlodipine is frequently used in the clinical setting.

That's an excellent BP and will pay a lifetime of dividends. You couldn't do your health more good than focusing on BP. I follow this topic obsessively, and as the experts have progressively lowered the "official" ideal BP over the years based on the evidence of long term outcomes, while listening to a panel of top preventive cardiologists go over the conclusions of the most recent studies (a "literature review"), there was a capitulation to the data where instead of predicting the next revision in guidelines they said, essentially, the lower you can get BP and still function the better off you'll be in every health metric tied to BP. Not just preventing CVD, but vision, hearing, cognition, mobility, everything functional, and in the future there will need to be a way to establish what that bottom line number is so everyone can have an individualized target. There was perhaps one anomalous study that concluded cognition was better with higher BP but that was an outlier.

They said new BP meds coming through now are nice improvements, but all the tools were at hand to achieve ideal BP now. The problem is despite being health's greatest "low hanging fruit" frontline docs are doing a terrible job of addressing BP, and the public is terrible at adhering to the medication.

One sort of amusing last note on this. They discussed the warning some researchers gave to doctors and pharmacists about generic meds, especially BP. I'm approximating here, but if the shape of the pill changes on a refill, 30% will stop using it. If the color changes, 40% will stop using it. If both change 65% of patients will stop taking their friggin lifesaving med, lol.

 

[NotHuman]

That's an excellent BP and will pay a lifetime of dividends. You couldn't do your health more good than focusing on BP. I follow this topic obsessively, and as the experts have progressively lowered the "official" ideal BP over the years based on the evidence of long term outcomes, while listening to a panel of top preventive cardiologists go over the conclusions of the most recent studies (a "literature review"), there was a capitulation to the data where instead of predicting the next revision in guidelines they said, essentially, the lower you can get BP and still function the better off you'll be in every health metric tied to BP. Not just preventing CVD, but vision, hearing, cognition, mobility, everything functional, and in the future there will need to be a way to establish what that bottom line number is so everyone can have an individualized target. There was perhaps one anomalous study that concluded cognition was better with higher BP but that was an outlier.

They said new BP meds coming through now are nice improvements, but all the tools were at hand to achieve ideal BP now. The problem is despite being health's greatest "low hanging fruit" frontline docs are doing a terrible job of addressing BP, and the public is terrible at adhering to the medication.

One sort of amusing last note on this. They discussed the warning some researchers gave to doctors and pharmacists about generic meds, especially BP. I'm approximating here, but if the shape of the pill changes on a refill, 30% will stop using it. If the color changes, 40% will stop using it. If both change 65% of patients will stop taking their friggin lifesaving med, lol.

Absolutely right. An aggressive BP reduction approach should be a priority for all bodybuilders. I see too many have a cavalier attitude about a systolic of 130 when even that is too high and the data clearly indicates it is not optimal. Anything over 120 on a regular basis should be addressed IMO. There really is no reason not to, since BP meds aren't scary in the least.

 

[Ghoul]

Absolutely right. An aggressive BP reduction approach should be a priority for all bodybuilders. I see too many have a cavalier attitude about a systolic of 130 when even that is too high and the data clearly indicates it is not optimal. Anything over 120 on a regular basis should be addressed IMO. There really is no reason not to, since BP meds aren't scary in the least.

Even when there are sides, they're typically short lived during the transition period. Especially the fatigue you can get when BP goes down, which is where I think a lot of folks drop out, but the body always compensates for that within weeks and you go back to normal energy levels.

Taking that single pill in the morning genuinely makes me happy. It's such a simple, effortless, and safe proven "life hack".

 

[NotHuman]

Even when there are sides, they're typically short lived during the transition period. Especially the fatigue you can get when BP goes down, which is where O think a lot of folks drop out, but the body always compensates for that within weeks and you go back to normal energy levels.

Taking that single pill in the morning genuinely makes me happy. It's such a simple, effortless, and safe proven "life hack".

I take Telmisartan (and sometimes nebivolol) at bedtime for this reason

Why Taking Blood Pressure Meds at Bedtime May Be More Effective

New research finds medication used to lower blood pressure may be more effective when it’s taken at night. Here’s why.

www.healthline.com

 

[Nidus]

40mg Telmisartarn + 5mg Nebivol are a gamechanger for me. Always had a really high resting heartrate and i could literally feel my heartbeat at all times in my head, ears, hands everywhere

Also frequently had headache but they all went away with that, since then a solid part of the daily life.

I like using Nebivol before bedtime, i feel like this makes me sleep "deeper"

 

[Ghoul]

I take Telmisartan (and sometimes nebivolol) at bedtime for this reason

Why Taking Blood Pressure Meds at Bedtime May Be More Effective

New research finds medication used to lower blood pressure may be more effective when it’s taken at night. Here’s why.

www.healthline.com

Doc advised me to take at night as well.

However, my bedtime varies a lot, which leads me to forget, so I was only intermittently taking it.

Since I wasn't "doing it right" I found myself not doing it at all.

I learned to capitulate to some of my flaws to prevent the perfect from being the enemy of the good.

Supposed to take 2.5mg Minoxidil twice a day too, finally gave in and take it all at once in the morning as well. Not ideal, but I know a single pill session in the morning is something I can religiously adhere to, and do.

 

[4Drago]

It's either the blood pressure meds or the cholesterol meds but I usually range around low 60s while at rest. Just got rescheduled from the dentist for bradycardia because my heart beat would drop down to 48 bpm

I told them I can meditate and bring my heart rate down by approx 10 beats. EVERY dentist visit, as soon as I hit the chair, I start with breathing techniques then meditate so I'm ready for the drill. Who loves the dentist so I do this to calm myself.

Doc said that it's impossible to lower your heard rate by will. So I said ok, look at the monitor, it was reading pretty high now at 68. I said keep watching and well by golly I pulled it down to 48 bpm again. Still that wasn't good enough for him so I had a referral to cardio.

No problem. Nothing wrong with getting the heart checked out. I just went to cardio yesterday and she said I was gtg. Frigging docs. At least I got my heart checked while on cycle. It's always better safe then sorry

I keep saying this but the mast has made things soo much better. It'll be in my cycle everytime. Keeps heart rate low too. Without it I'm in the high 70s.