What's a proper protocol to run both HGH and GH peptides, like MOD GRF and Ipamorelin? Not looking for big doses, but want to augment the peptides here and there with some real GH. I'm thinking there's probably better times of the day to add HGH to minimize suppression of natural pulses.
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Running HGH AND GH peptides
- Thread starter ooohyeah
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clearheaded
Member
1. no evidence peptides cause less shutdown
2. peptides may be more than enough depending on goals
3. natural GH according to anecdotal bloods of healthy individuals comes back to normal pretty quickly. if want to avoid shutdown take breaks or 5 days a week for peptides and do less. mixing them every other day will likely cause more damage/shutdown and prob make peptides be less effective from exogenous shut down than ask them to wake up and secrete the next day..
ie there is no logical reason for such a protocol, get negatives of both and possibly less of the positives for a few reasons.... feel free to consult further.
2. peptides may be more than enough depending on goals
3. natural GH according to anecdotal bloods of healthy individuals comes back to normal pretty quickly. if want to avoid shutdown take breaks or 5 days a week for peptides and do less. mixing them every other day will likely cause more damage/shutdown and prob make peptides be less effective from exogenous shut down than ask them to wake up and secrete the next day..
ie there is no logical reason for such a protocol, get negatives of both and possibly less of the positives for a few reasons.... feel free to consult further.
HGH and peptides don't cause long lasting suppression like exogenous sex hormones do. Recovery is much faster.
Just go with exogenous HGH. It's more consistent at the very least than the effect peptides may or may not exert on your own endogenous production.
GeorgeHarrison2
New Member
You could do MK-677 in the morning and HGH at night obviously MK-677 comes with its own side effects but this is something I've done to increase my appetite.
Jin23
Well-known Member
Peptides do not cause "shutdown".
clearheaded
Member
when a peptide causes ur brain to secrete alot of HGH what do you think happens in the coming hours? less or more production of GH stimulating hormones? whenever u enter the feedback loop some type of shutdown happens just FYI.
think of it like hcg (a peptide) still causes 'shutdown'
without shutdowns your body would keep same amount of all hormones all the time...ie feedback loops.
think of it like hcg (a peptide) still causes 'shutdown'
without shutdowns your body would keep same amount of all hormones all the time...ie feedback loops.
Jin23
Well-known Member
when a peptide causes ur brain to secrete alot of HGH what do you think happens in the coming hours? less or more production of GH stimulating hormones? whenever u enter the feedback loop some type of shutdown happens just FYI.
think of it like hcg (a peptide) still causes 'shutdown'
without shutdowns your body would keep same amount of all hormones all the time...ie feedback loops.
Did you just wink at me?
Jin23
Well-known Member
You are messing up the terminology a bit here, weaseling yourself out of proverbial ditch you got yourself in.
We were talking about shutdown in a sense of not producing and releasing your own endogenous hormones in the blood circulation FOR A SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TIME, after the use of said compounds. Off course the pituitary "shutdown's" after a single bolus release of GH. But this is not shutdown as it relates to the use of the term established prior to your reply in the thread and the general use of the term established in the aas community. So stop weaseling yourself out on a "technicality" as you are just muddying the waters here.
And just to make things clear, for anybody using only two brain cells reading this: the use of growth hormone secretagogues, does not shutdown endogenous GH production, rather, its using your own production of hormones, it releases your own stored GH - hence the name "GH secretagogues". After you stop using the peptides, your natural production is still up and running. If your igf1 levels are much above your natural levels, the production might theoretically be a bit lowered for a day or two, but honestly, this is just speculation and it really doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.
We were talking about shutdown in a sense of not producing and releasing your own endogenous hormones in the blood circulation FOR A SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TIME, after the use of said compounds. Off course the pituitary "shutdown's" after a single bolus release of GH. But this is not shutdown as it relates to the use of the term established prior to your reply in the thread and the general use of the term established in the aas community. So stop weaseling yourself out on a "technicality" as you are just muddying the waters here.
And just to make things clear, for anybody using only two brain cells reading this: the use of growth hormone secretagogues, does not shutdown endogenous GH production, rather, its using your own production of hormones, it releases your own stored GH - hence the name "GH secretagogues". After you stop using the peptides, your natural production is still up and running. If your igf1 levels are much above your natural levels, the production might theoretically be a bit lowered for a day or two, but honestly, this is just speculation and it really doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.
If we're going to call what happens with peptide use "shutdown", then after a 100% natural pulse, your production is "shutdown" for a short while too, but this is not what shutdown means as I've ever understood it. Shutdown from exogenous use would be a very different thing.
In fact, I've read about prescribing doctors suggesting peptide use immediately after HGH use to jumpstart natural pulses.
In fact, I've read about prescribing doctors suggesting peptide use immediately after HGH use to jumpstart natural pulses.
clearheaded
Member
no long term studies have been done.. ie my original post stands.
"there is no evidence peptides cause less shutdown than hgh.. "
please don't make things up because of your FEELINGS...facts are not feelings.
"there is no evidence peptides cause less shutdown than hgh.. "
please don't make things up because of your FEELINGS...facts are not feelings.
Jin23
Well-known Member
It's clear the fella has some issues. Just ignore.
clearheaded
Member
yes after a natural pulse is also a shutdown... but again far more involved than just GH when using peptides, that are not well studied. ie "no evidence LESS shutdown from peptides compared to GH". not sure why this is so hard to figure out. lay off the Tren maybe will be less argumentative.
Correct. The body does not "shutdown" like it does with AAS (requiring PCT).
My understanding is that GH injection ALSO does not induce any "shutdown" and is in fact additive to the body's own production, thus the nighttime injection schedule. Is this your understanding? Those that inject GH in the morning because they don't want to disrupt the natural nighttime pulse are wrong - injecting GH at night just adds to the natural nightime pulse (and at the natural time). The feedback loop is not present for GH injection.
HB_22
Well-known Member
This is wrong. There is plenty of studies showing no gh release up to 24hrs after a single exogenous gh administration. So yes, there is a negative feedback loop if you inject GH and your body will not produce any for at least 24 hrs.
Thank you. Can you post the studies? I am wondering why the standard clinic direction then is to inject at night? Why would clinics not want maximization of their paying customers experience?
I'm totally with you about exogenous HGH suppressing our body's own production of HGH, but first you say "up to" and then "at least". I've read up to 24 hours but don't ever recall reading at least. Amount and method of application would play a part.
From all that I've read, he is correct that exogenous HGH will suppress the endogenous production. Somatostatin (I believe) is the hormone that suppresses HGH production and the application of exogenous HGH will result in a spike of somatostatin. The amount of time is slightly different depending on dose, method of application, etc.
This is an instance when using the word "suppression" really conveys the idea better than "shutdown".
Because HGH from a clinic is meant to be replacement therapy. Your body's largest amount of HGH is produced at night.
I don't think he ever claimed that anyone did need it. Only that it would suppress your endogenous production for up to the remainder of the day.
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