Here ya go:
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Russia begins invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Fifap94
- Start date
Lmfao.
I don't if you can call anybody as winning this thing except for defense contractors and lobbyists.
But Ukraine has already lost, thier country has been pounded into rubble large parts are now occupied permanently and they're now helplessly in debt to the most corrupt regime on the planet.
There's no real hope for a free and independent ukranian nation now.
If there ever was
And so did Russia... 2004 coup attempt, Orange Revolution, installing a pro-Russian leader who now lives in Russia. Equipping and training militias, shooting down the airliner.
The fact that Ukraine still has a country is a win for them. And the fact that Russia couldn't take 80% of the territory in a neighboring country with 1/3rd the population is a loss for them.
Like I said, you have no reliable source.Here ya go:
That site itself admitted all that's an estimate based on "pictures and open sourced reporting"
I wouldn't believe that bullshit anymore than I would believe the propoganda coming out of Moscow, Kyiv or Washington DC.
Nobody's telling the truth
Russia has probably lost even more than that. That's just all they can document. I don't think anybody, even the Russian military or Russian state news, would say they still have more than 50% of the heavy equipment they started with.
You dumbfuxk idiot!!!
I just told you the orange revolution brought in the pro western leader yushchenko, not the pro Russian Yanukovych and was orchestrated by the US state department. The same people that would run the coup in 2014.
In 2010 Yanukovych was elected again, fairly, and the US state department would run yet another coup on him.
You're one ignorant mother f-er.
Learn to read and read a book once in awhile
Lol. Uh.. okay
But Russia has the parts they want.
And Ukraine as an independent nation is gone.
So whatever
And the only reason for the Orange revolution was the 2004 Russian coup attempt to install Viktor Yanukovych which was unsuccessful because of the Orange Revolution. Russia finally installed Yanukovych in 2010 but there was a Revolution of Dignity in 2014 that caused his impeachment. Now he lives in Russia.
At what cost? And how long can they hold it?
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Dude, you're completely incoherent here and obviously don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
Russia couldn't have "tried to install Yanukovych" in 2004.
Because he had been in office since 2002. The coup of 2004 the "Orange revolution" was a US state department coup operation to remove Yanukovych because the Ukraine was facing bankruptcy and he declined EU membership and money to instead accepted a loan from Russia to prevent the bankruptcy.
That was the coup.
Not a "Russian attempt to install" him.
Because the coup installed yushchenko, the US state department man, who's administration was so corrupt and plagued with scandals that he was removed in 2010 and Yanukovych was re-elected.
Until the next US state department coup to remove Yanukovych. The legally elected president of Ukraine.
Nobody doubts he won the 2010 election. Because he did.
The US government overthrew the Ukrainian government twice in 10 years because they kept electing people who refused EU bailouts for bankruptcy and instead accepted a loan from Russia to prevent it.
Follow the money
As long as they want to.
Ukraine never should have waged war on its own citizens in the name of "national purity". Because the ethnic Russian people left Ukraine and are taking thier homes with them by joining Russia.
Continuing this senseless fighting dies nothing to help the Ukrainian people, but instead keeps the whole world suffering for the profit of a greedy few
Anybody reading here. This guy is a straight up fckin idiot.
Nothing he says is accurate or honest.
He's a prime example of what a steady diet of MSNBC, CNN propoganda will do to an uninformed and fanatically ignorant American
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He became President in 2010. He was Russia's boy in Ukraine and was the subject of two "revolutions" protests in 2004 and 2014. Now he lives in Russia. Why is that?
It's always the Americans who are doing these "coups" in Ukraine with you, huh? Russia has never tried to make Ukraine a satellite state, has never tried to make Ukrainian government favorable to them, even though they interfered with US elections? Even though they invaded?
What's clear, from the 2004 and 2014 revolutions and the current conflict today, is the Ukrainians as a majority do not want a pro-Russia leader and do not want to be a satellite state of Russia. Now maybe some provinces bordering Russia strongly disagree, but that's Europe for you. Poland is already talking about taking back Ukrainian territory with Poles in it. And the Serbs, Bosnians and Croats disagree on territory. All these countries have ethnicities that bleed into the borders of other countries. But to invade and annex because of it causes more problems than they solve.
For 8 years Russia has been funding, equipping and training anti-Ukraine militias in the Donbas... sending in non-uniformed soldiers. Shot down Malaysia airlines flight 17. They are definitely not the victims here.
And Zelensky was elected as the opponent to the "coup" leader Poroshenko in 2019, 5 years afterwards having nothing to do with that.
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To end Russia as a state all anyone would need to do right now is destroy a few of their oil refineries and they aren't doing that. Putin can end this at any time.
As opposed to Russia who hasn't been a free state independent of a dictator for all of modern history. Your buddy Mr Putin, and his attempts to install pro-Russia regimes, is not the answer to Ukraine.
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Nobody said he was "Russia's boy" until he refused bankruptcy with the EU and accepted a loan from Russia to prevent the liquidation of Ukraine. Go figure
Why is he in Russia? Because he pissed off the world empire and knows too much
Just ask Snowden and Assange
Dumbfuxk, you're indoctrinated and ignorant
United States has invaded or fought in 84 of the 193 countries recognized by the United Nations and has been militarily involved with 191 of 193 – a staggering 98 percent.
That's clearly the most hostile, billigerent and empirical regime on the planet.
And there's no argument to be made against it when faced with the facts.
Russia might not be a nice place and Putin might be a ruthless dude. But they're amateur by comparison to the current world empire and it's ruling regime of the cartel on the Potomac
Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Both Russia and Ukraine were Soviet Union states.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, both Russia and Ukraine tried to make governments friendly towards the other as getting along was in the best interest of both. That's exactly my point you fukkin fool.
It's the US and NATO that would not allow them to get along.
The US has interfered in literally scores of other nations elections. Especially in Ukraine
If that horseshit was even remotely true, the US state department wouldn't have to spend billions to overthrow elected ukranian governments multiple times in coup and color revolutions.
You're contradicting yourself and getting more and more incoherent while you try to pretend to understand whas going on and justify US government covert actions that created this situation.
In other words, it's just another example of complicated ethnic geopolitical conflicts that happen all over the world and yet another example of the US government getting involved, making it worse and promoting human suffering so they can pick the pockets of the people involved and make money selling weapons.
Where have we seen that before?
Ukraine started the war in Donbass by refusing to address the concerns of it's own citizens and instead tried to run them off thier land
Lmfao... stupidest thing you've said so far.
Zelensky is 100% a puppet of the Washington DC Cartel on the Potomac.
MR_Midas
Member
It sounds logical that you wrote, as actually apparently time will tell.
MR_Midas
Member
The picture is depressing in terms of the state of technology. Perhaps this will push for negotiations and the end of the war.So here's a list of Russian military equipment lost in Ukraine, 7456, of which: destroyed: 4569, damaged: 166, abandoned: 307, captured: 2418:
As far as main battle tanks go they've lost 1398. 805 destroyed, 54 damaged, 55 captured. Russia has always claimed to have anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000+ main battle tanks. This is a huge deal because they're on the land continent of Europe and all the countries of NATO combined only have a couple thousand tanks in Europe.
Well, it turned out only about 2,300 of Russia's tanks were working. They lost about half of those in the first months in Ukraine and it turned out they could only get about 1,000 more from storage working. The rest is pretty much a scrap yard of rotting rusting Soviet vehicles that won't work. Their air force too is in disrepair, and their navy is mostly 30+ year old ships. They just don't have the kind of GDP needed to retire their old Soviet equipment and upgrade to something new.
Lmfao
"It's us and the good guys against the bad bad guys and it's our job to spread our own government all over the world because it's better than all the rest"
- @hometeam idiot
Especially when you consider the civil unrest brewing all over Europe over inflation and rising energy costs because Joe Biden has taken Russian energy off the western markets.
The military losses are just one part of it. By next spring, there will be people starving, homelessness skyrocketing and vulnerable governments will be toppling and getting radicalized. Because desperate people elect radical leaders. Hungry people elect whoever promises to feed them.
I believe the future will tell this as one of the dumbest things the US government has done, on top of a very long list that made bad situations even worse.
But the consolidation of wealth into fewer and fewer hands will accelerate. And they seem to want that more than anything else
Some numbers for you:
US GDP: $20.94 trillion, EU GDP: $16.6 trillion, Russia's GDP: $1.483 trillion
US defense budget: $800 billion, NATO defense budget: $1.04 trillion, Russia's defense budget $78 billion
Ukraine has mobilized about 700,000 to 750,000 soldiers, Russia about 500,000
The US and NATO also has over 100 commercial and military satellites watching the battlefield, Russia about a dozen and without the same capabilities. Ukraine has Starlink communication, is listening in to Russian cell phone calls.
The US spent $40 billion a year in Afghanistan for 2 decades and still managed to fight a war in Iraq and deter the Chinese the same time. Aid to Ukraine is only costing about 5% of our annual defense budget. The US produces 11.2 million barrels of oil per day, Russia 10.1 million.
So, I mean we could keep this up for a very long time. This is nothing for us, very affordable. Europe doesn't drill their own oil because "it's bad for the environment" so they'll be hurting but the US doesn't need their permission to aid the Ukrainians. European economic output that looks anything like Russias would feel like a disaster to them, in other words Russia is already living in a disaster of an economy.
One of the issues is just how bad do we have to weaken the Russians? They weren't a peer to begin with. China is. The main issue here with Russia is their dictator leader who considers the West the enemy. But after their botched attack on Kiev they've lost so much military capability, and they're not wealthy enough to replace it. Most of their equipment is from the Soviet Union. Putin can't pull out because he would be a failure. Do we keep aiding Ukraine until Russia collapses as a federated country? And what would the world look like if it did?
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And we've suffered the consequences of that imperialism, in blood and treasure. Now it's Russia's turn. To justify an invasion over a 2014 impeachment and meddling when Zelensky was elected 5 years afterwards is no better than to justify the invasion of Iraq over WMDs. Russia is doing in Eastern Europe everything you hate the US for doing. To condemn US foreign policy while condoning Russia's invasion would be hypocritical at best.
Oh yeah the US is fine. This is a drop in the bucket for us. As I said before what's more pressing to the US than any of this is the rise of China. They now have a GDP of $14.7 trillion. Their stealth jets and new tanks are not vaporware they are actually producing them. They have a larger Navy than the US, artificial islands. And they want Taiwan. And Pelosi thinks its a good idea to visit Taiwan and poke the bear. In the grand scheme that's more of a serious issue than Russia/Ukraine, especially after Russia's botched attack of Kiev took out so much of their legacy military hardware. Of course China and the the US economies are interconnected in a way Russia's is not, due to them thinking everyone is out to get them. And staying strong on Ukraine aid is a determent to China on Taiwan.
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Putin has already said he'd like to negotiate and settle this:
Kremlin says its goals in Ukraine can be achieved through talks
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was quoted as saying on Thursday that the goals of Moscow's "special military operation" in Ukraine were unchanged, but that they could be achieved through negotiations.
It's the Ukrainians that aren't willing:
Zelensky: No space left for negotiations with Putin's regime
President Volodymyr Zelensky has said that since October 10, Russia has damaged 30% of power stations in Ukraine, therefore, any negotiations with President Vladimir Putin are impossible. — Ukrinform.
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