Should hCG be kept frozen for later use?

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Michael Scally MD, Jun 26, 2013.

Can hCG be kept frozen for later use?

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    46.3%
  2. No

    22 vote(s)
    53.7%
  1. I think you're right, the evidence for freezing isn't there. I found a few more references in chem publications that seem to suggest it might be possible to freeze neutral buffered aqueous solutions of hCG or reconstituted hCG-beta for long term storage in single use aliquots at -20°C as you noted earlier, but they also recommend the addition of a carrier protein (0.1% HSA or BSA) as well as the avoidance of freeze-thaw cycles. The use of a carrier proteins and precise storage requirements doesn't seem at all practical for the home user.

    As is usually the case, following the manufacturer's instructions is the best option, IMO. If your balls depend on it, it's really not worth the risk just for the sake of a few bucks saved.

    CBS
     
    Millard Baker likes this.
  2. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    As far as the -20 °C referenced, another detail from the same company cited 20°C. Freeze/Thaw details are not mentioned nor is bioactivity.

    "Solutions in water at ? 10 ?g/ml can be stored as single use aliquots at 20 °C. Solutions at 100 ?g/ml in water are stable at 2-8 °C for about 2-3 months."

    "Solutions reconstituted in water can be stored at -20 °C as single use aliquots."
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  3. Ursamajor

    Ursamajor Junior Member

    There might be a difference between frozen hcg reconstituted in bacteriostatic (bezyl alcohol added) water vs sterile water.
     
  4. techlogik

    techlogik Member

    You can freeze reconstituted hcg and use later. This has been tested about 1-2yrs ago by a compounding pharmacy...can't find the link now, but who cares since all the experts at Meso have said No...does it really matter the facts?

    Anyway, up to 1 month has shown the effectiveness/PH levels etc...remained the same from a fresh batch mixed up. Doesn't mean it won't last much longer frozen.

    Having done this myself for 4yrs now, I didn't need someone to tell me it is OK for several months to have frozen hCG, then thaw a few hours prior, inject. Same effect and proven with blood work to increase Test levels. Never had any issues with it.

    Also, I personally have talked with Novarel on this subject, they said it would be fine to freeze it. They didn't specify any length of time it was OK, but didn't say you could not. I had a contact there and via email a short conversation about freezing reconstituted hCG. This was like 3yrs ago if I recall the communications.
     
  5. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Provide the link for your post. I am sure you have no idea how much you stepped in it. If one freezed hCG, how did they check its utility? Please tell us! This sounds like some crap posted from a forum.

    IMO, until there is publication for the efficacy, why take the chance. Add to this, the published reports that freezing causes loss of efficacy and freezing should be avoided, especially for the gonadotropins, why listen to your 'bro science.

    As to you having spoke to "Novarel" personally, they would have much to lose and nothing to gain. No PhRMA would say such a thing. Provide a person's name. LMAO
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  6. cobra500

    cobra500 Member

    I'm not trying to be a smart ass and appeciate your expert input and studies Dr Scally but why did you start this thread if you already new the answer? Why not post the reasons it cannot be for the sake of educating?
     
  7. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Because, I chose to do it this way.

    I did the same thing here - http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-forum/estrogen-rebound-134340339.html

    There are more. And, I will most assuredly do another poll.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  8. I can't answer for Dr. Scally but at least one of the positive effects this thread had was to get people questioning something that is generally accepted to be true in the bro lore but not supported scientifically, i.e., whether it's possible to freeze reconstituted hcg.

    IMO, the thread was educational. Hopefully it will have a longer lasting effect and cause people to question other "broisms," rather than just assuming they're true. Obviously, you can't get everyone to see the light as evidenced a couple of posts up but some will get it.

    CBS
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  9. cobra500

    cobra500 Member

    Okay, just curious. The way the thread was started I was waiting for a conclusion.
     
  10. Ursamajor

    Ursamajor Junior Member

    We already know what professional research says about this issue, so a better question for the poll would have been: "What is your personal experience of using frozen reconstituted hcg? Is it still effective?" Personally I find it pointless to read what people THINK will happen, I want to know what actually happens.

    If we really want to know, its an easy thing to find out. Get 10 volunteers on this board, who have been off cycle for 6 months to freeze up some HCG in a syringe for two months, do blood work, inject, do blood work. Check testosterone levels.

    I'm surprised this is the only personal testimony on this thread so far. Given how many people seem to use this method, there should lots of them.
     
  11. but my hcg is 5000iu and i use 500iu e3d so how can i storage??how long time?
     
  12. mr.anabolic

    mr.anabolic Junior Member

  13. Manski

    Manski Member

    No on freezing ! Of course keep in red after constituting it.
     
  14. Manski

    Manski Member

    Meant keep in refrig
     
  15. Misterboots

    Misterboots Member

    I was told to try the freeze method by my Endo and that many of his patients have success so I voted yes. I am prescribed 10000 iu Novarel, so I freeze 5000 of each vial and I have had no problems and could never differentiate and doubt anyone could if a blind test were done (mine gets frozen for maybe 4-5 weeks).

    Many people cannot get their insurance to pay for hcg and it is not cheap, so for people paying cash with limited budget...well, freezing might be the only option to keep the boys plump. I could throw the 5000 iu's away, but I'd feel bad knowing someones balls are aching from atrophy while Im tossing the cure. Seems wasteful to me. and the Pharmaceutical company aint never gonna say freeze the HCG, cause they want to sell more shit. JMHO but wanted to share cause I have tried freezing HCG, was skeptical, but have to say there seems to be zero issues. I would love to see if it causes changes biologically, and hope the good doc pursues this. Has anyone on here tried the freeze method with hcg and had a problem?

    Boot
     
  16. rocky.b

    rocky.b Junior Member

    dr.scally??
     
  17. Yes, you can freeze and thaw hCG. This has been going on for years with little to no significant decrease in strength.

    http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/...Have-Been-Completely-Wrong-About-Freezing-HCG
     
  18. A lot of people do use the freeze / thaw method, but the above link is hardly what I would consider to be sufficient evidence indicating it is safe to do.

    The guy references some research done by a compounding pharmacy and then states that he can't publish the researchers findings, that's fine but its not very convincing evidence to say the least.

    I'm not discounting anyone's personal experiences with freezing HCG as being ineffective either, I just don't think there is any convincing scientific evidence indicating it is safe to do and won't cause any harm to the drug.

    The evidence suggesting that it is best to avoid freezing, as recommended by the manufacturers themselves, is more credible and convincing than the unpublished findings of an unnamed compounding pharmacy.

    I'm not knocking the freezing method though, I just think from an evidence based perspective there isn't much in the way of indicating freezing is safe, and the scientific info mentioned by others in this thread seems to suggest the opposite.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
    Michael Scally MD likes this.
  19. The "guy" is Dr. John Crisler. He's been treating andropause and recording TRT/HRT research for a very long time. He's arguably one of the leading TRT docs on the planet.

    His patients and thousands of others, including tens of thousands of AAS users who choose to prevent testicular atrophy and other benefits, have been freezing and thawing hcg for several years now. Blood work is consistently returned favorably and without issue. Ive personally been freezing hCG since 2012. My blood work and health indicates freezing has no significant negative effect. Full stop.

    Dr. Crisler attends symposiums in order to share his findings with doctor from all over the world. And if you think that he would purposely lie about something as important as this, or that he would carelessly share data that is sketchy or unsupported, Im dont know how to respond to that. He's an extremely respected Doctor who has given his life to treating men who are suffering from andropause. And he's made advances in medicine that continue assist doctors around the world. I dont have the time to pen out his curriculum vitae, but its impressive.

    I understand your skepticism, but to ignore all the data available about freezing hCG is simply foolish IMO. And i would speculate that the reason Scally ignores it is because of his animosity towards Dr Crisler. That's another long story and not one i would engage in here out of respect for them both.
     
  20. The convicted wife beater.

    Amongst his disciples he is the Jim Jones of TRT medicine. Amongst everyone else, he's just a Jim Jones.

    Ask him to support his findings (nonsense) about adrenal fatigue or reverse t3 dominance or a bunch of other made up diseases. In fact, ask him on his own forum and see how long it takes the "Lord of the Forum" to show you to the exit - that's if his minions don't get you first, of course.

    He's "given his life" for the Benjamins. Nothing more, nothing less.

    He's done NOTHING to advance the cause of TRT and andropause that thousands of other physicians haven't done. He's a legend in his own mind. Has he even been published in the literature? His cockamamie theories would get ripped to shreds and his gigantic but extremely fragile ego couldn't withstand it. And being unable to fall back on his usual litany of personal attacks and insults would leave him with no rebuttal whatsoever.

    The only thing he's "advanced" are bogus medical conditions and treatments that appear nowhere in the literature. The only thing to which he's contributed (or more accurately, his patients have contributed) is the size of his wallet.

    The bottom line is I wouldn't take one of Chrisler's "theories" over the literature or the recommendations of the hcg manufacture - EVER. Chrisler needs to "man up."
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
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