Source QC and C of A (do you have one?)

[Millard]

Its not really the message, its the messenger.

This has become one of the bigger challenges in recent years for forum administrators: encouraging people to separate the message from the messenger.

More broadly speaking, tribalistic thinking has led to people going after the messenger (based on things like political persuasion, gender, sexual orientation, lifestyle choices, etc.) rather than debating/disputing/challenging the message. This is a step beyond the regular ad hominem attacks that often occur.

It seems all rationality and logic goes out the window. We've seen this with political topics: they can't see beyond the political label even when it comes to topics that have nothing to do with politics.

We've seen this on forums when neutral AAS-related questions/threads become totally derailed just because people insist on attacking the political beliefs of the messenger. In some cases, people basically "stalk" and follow the messenger around the forum for the sole purpose of insulting and attacking.

It's not exactly the same when you just don't like the messenger because he is "annoying" but there are similarities.

Furthermore, you may support the message. And not the messenger. But the danger that I've see here is that so many people are (purposely?) confusing the two.

Not only are they rejecting the messenger. They are just as aggressively rejecting the message.

That is unfortunate. Seeking additional testing is basic harm reduction stuff. We should all want more testing from UGLs and for UGL products.

 

[Millard]

It's sad that you have to go to an online forum to feel important. You are so desperate to be viewed as intellectual that you make your whole life existence about products you are too much a bitch to even use. Maybe Millard likes you but nobody else does. I think I speak for the vast majority when I say FUCK OFF CUNT.

What does liking the messenger have to do with the importance of the message?

I mean really, you have several members complaining that a specific UGL does NOT test raw ingredients before brewing.

And you have this guy who is asking/encouraging/pressuring UGLs, including this UGL in particular, to perform testing on their raw ingredients.

It seems easy to choose sides here. It is enlightening to see where you stand.

 

[Millard]

Should he be concerned with one customers unreasonable request, or stay busy and successful with the thousands of other customers?

Think of this from a business owners perspective.

This badgering sources is annoying as fuck bro. And it has no basis in reality

You do know that the whole point of the Steroid Underground subforum is to hold sources accountable, don't you?

That means asking/encouraging/pressuring/badgering/demanding that UGLs are fully accountable for their products and services.

This is done with harm reduction in mind because consumers, even those using black market androgens, deserve to know exactly what they are injecting into their body.

The increasing amount of analytical lab testing is one of the biggest achievements in the AAS harm reduction space. It's still not enough. UGLs can do better.

Expecting and demanding that UGLs do more testing should be the default mode for members here.

Contrary to the prevailing sentiment in a few source threads, this forum does NOT exist so members can bow down, kiss the ring, and promote/defend the sources (from "a business owners (sic) perspective") against customer criticisms of their products/services.

We could do better with more members "badgering" sources/UGLs to remain accountable with things like increased lab testing.

And fewer members posting their obsequious, sycophantic bullshit.

 

[SkankHunt]

Even when people acknowledge the problem and everyone knows about the problem, few care to do anything

I mean Hutech is the perfect example of this issue. There were at least 5-6 guys who had DOMESTIC packs seized by law enforcement. A bunch of us told guys not to order as it’s a serious security risk. What did Hutech do to solve the problem? They told everyone “it’s ok no need to worry, btw we are having a BOGO sale”. Guys were still placing orders.

I’ve seen a few guys say they try not to kick the hornets nest due to fear of retaliation. Some of the bigger sources have “accidentally” doxxed members who spoke out against them. I honestly wonder if this could be a contributing factor to speaking out. While it may be rare and unlikely, these people have your address and if you’re dumb enough, bank account info.

 

[readalot]

Just send anything for testing. Anything at all.

You'd like me to submit my Pharma/compounded AAS to the testing I proposed above? Will this allow me to apply for my harm reduction/citizen scientist tester merit badge and stop the incessant hypocritical attacks?

You really want me to submit something for testing. Is it really that unclear why I haven't submitted anything for testing?

Really? Why is that? Hint: read above.

 

[readalot]

been talking so much shit this whole time and haven't spent any time formulating a plan for your own testing.

More reactive BS without thought. Think before irrationally lashing out.

 

[lonewolf54321]

What does liking the messenger have to do with the importance of the message?

I mean really, you have several members complaining that a specific UGL does NOT test raw ingredients before brewing.

And you have this guy who is asking/encouraging/pressuring UGLs, including this UGL in particular, to perform testing on their raw ingredients.

It seems easy to choose sides here. It is enlightening to see where you stand.

Yes very easy to see where I stand. I don't like annoying little twats that spam the hell out of threads over his crusade.
Your point about him wanting MC to test raws is stupid. We all want raws tested like most sources already do.That's not the point of his crusade and you know it.
Your argument about the messenger not mattering is naive as hell too. If the leader of a movement is hated, the focus gets shifted away from the end goal and on the hatred for the leader.
You are actually hurting harm reduction by encouraging that idiot to take charge and be the face of this movement. Good job there on that one...

 

[readalot]

this guy could send some of his compounding pharmacy gear for testing/heavy metal testing. He has it on hand.

That is correct. Would be a nice comparator for the ugl raw / finished product testing.

He just hasn't bothered doing jack shit. Really pathetic.

This is false. I spent the time to outline the tests, iterate on an approach with Jano, and also procured a C of A for pharma test that serves as a basis for testing needed to comply with USP impurity standards. I have painstaking laid out what those USP standards are. Sorry this bores you. Saying I haven't done jack shit really isn't the case.

Testing will happen on the timeline that makes sense. Surely you realize the thought that needs to go into making this impurity testing a success (avoiding false negatives, etc.) It ain't quite as simple as the HPLC testing that has become standardized here.

Or maybe you don't realize.

 

[readalot]

little

Dude you are like 0 / 50.

The plot still seems to be going directly over your head. Your propensity to lash out and insult with grade school tactics really undermines you.

What is the point of my "crusade"? You want sources to test raws for what....the purity / concentration of the anabolic active ingredient? But when I bring up the concept of the other side of the harm reduction coin (impurities testing), that's really stupid and i am a f'n c*nt. Yeah, ok.

That MC thread is very enlightening and shows those true colors of the supposed harm reduction proponents posing on here. Harm reduction** wink wink.

 

[readalot]

You are actually hurting harm reduction

Make sure you provide your definition of harm reduction. Somehow I am betting your definition and Millard's is not the same.

Let me help:

@lonewolf54321's definition: let me test some API strength in the ugl products so I can continue using this place as my source forum and make sure what I am getting has the right concentration of AAS. I don't give a shit what other impurities/contaminants are in the gear. Even came out and said you are happy to be lab rat for source's gear.

@Millard 's definition of harm reduction: see harm reduction (no wink wink)

This whole thread is a great separation method to identify the two camps pretty accurately.

 

[lonewolf54321]

Dude you are like 0 / 50.

The plot still seems to be going directly over your head. Your propensity to lash out and insult with grade school tactics really undermines you.

What is the point of my "crusade"? You want sources to test raws for what....the purity / concentration of the anabolic active ingredient? But when I bring up the concept of the other side of the harm reduction coin (impurities testing), that's really stupid. Yeah, ok.

There is nothing wrong with promoting better testing practices and increased testing. The problem is you are on every threat and damn near every other post pushing for something that doesn't even pertain to you. You are Malcolm X loud and in your face when you should be MLK softly promoting change and building a movement....
You are the wrong messenger and our disdain for you is overpowering your message. Try changing your approach and maybe we would be more receptive.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

That is unfortunate. Seeking additional testing is basic harm reduction stuff. We should all want more testing from UGLs and for UGL products.

It is unfortunate, some people may not see eye to eye on all matters but can respect their approach. I don't see much of any benefit of this in the long run.


Whenever we go to a doctors office and they perform a scan/test. A big question is, whatever this test will say, can we do anything about it?

Some of the additional testing on raws, if it is off? what are we going to do.

Heavy metals, API off in the raw ingredients? What are we gonna do? complain to the manufacturer about the process? Does China care? No. Then ultimately, what is the harm reduction? We aren't going to change anything.

If someone has floaters, bad testing, wrong drug mixed with, poor solvents. That is a different story. Could put the guy on blast, change vendors.

The guy's approach is spamming multiple sources asking the same question. He doesn't necessarily need to spam every source asking the same thing. linking to this thread.

 

[HereToTeachAndLearn]

Make sure you provide your definition of harm reduction. Somehow I am betting your definition and Millard's is not the same.

Let me help:

@lonewolf54321's definition: let me test some API strength in the ugl products so I can continue using this place as my source forum and make sure what I am getting has the right concentration of AAS. I don't give a shit what other impurities/contaminants are in the gear. Even came out and said you are happy to be lab rat for source's gear.

@Millard 's definition of harm reduction: see harm reduction (no wink wink)

This whole thread is a great separation method to identify the two camps pretty accurately.

I finally have found my first and currently only person to ignore! Now I don’t have to deal with this asshole spamming everyone anymore!!!!!

 

[readalot]

Heavy metals, API off in the raw ingredients? What are we gonna do? complain to the manufacturer about the process? Does China care? No. Then ultimately, what is the harm reduction? We aren't going to change anything.

Really? Don't collect the data because you are convinced it won't change anything? Keep head in sand? We find class 1 residual solvents in the raws for example and doesn't make a difference?

Already covered here by Millard:

Source QC and C of A (do you have one?)

Do you have orthogonal method for water to get at incremental loss of solvent on drying? Or would we have to lump water and RS into one bucket? How to do you propose getting a non water residual solvent estimate? Anabolic steroids are not among the most hygroscopic compounds, thus I deem that...

thinksteroids.com

 

[readalot]

Go be a fucking cunt elsewhere retard.

Fuck off cunt.

I think I speak for the vast majority when I say FUCK OFF CUNT

Go worry about heavy metals you stupid cunt. Fuck off

Etc, etc, etc...


Nice to see your softer side. Classic crybully...

You are Malcolm X loud and in your face when you should be MLK softly promoting change and building a movement....

Try changing your approach and maybe we would be more receptive.

You need a history lesson. Nothing in my original post was combative or abusive. Some smart asses (hint: see above and all your valuable contributions) tried to draw first blood. Thanks for your thoughtful feedback you softie.

Sorry my "spam" may be interfering with your TA. Nice to know you are always putting harm reduction over your personal delivery orders and delivery times.

#ISeeThroughYourBullshit

 

[readalot]

recruiting someone else to be the "face of the movement."

Guessing substance ID and purity percentage, right?

Assuming a vendor tests raws and gets back, for example, 90% purity, you’re ok with the vendor adjusting the raws used in the brew so that the final oil reaches the advertised mg/ml dose? That’s the only thing that matters to you?

You have no concern with what’s in the other 10% of the raws, right?

Just trying to clarify your position on the additional testing suggested by readalot.

A face of the movement emerges...

Smart but not a smartass? Check

Gets it? Check

Uses UGL products? Check

Great communicator? Check

Seeks to understand? Check

Cool username? Check

Simply excellent how you framed that @lift4lyfe . Well done and thank you.

Can't wait to hear the answers to those questions you posed. Cuts straight to the matter.

 

[lift4lyfe]

That is unfortunate. Seeking additional testing is basic harm reduction stuff. We should all want more testing from UGLs and for UGL products.

Unfortunately it seems like the small group/gang against additional testing is the most vocal

 

[lift4lyfe]

Some of the additional testing on raws, if it is off? what are we going to do.

Heavy metals, API off in the raw ingredients? What are we gonna do? complain to the manufacturer about the process? Does China care? No. Then ultimately, what is the harm reduction? We aren't going to change anything.

Markets have an amazing way of adjusting themselves.

Once raws testing begins, the Chinese manufacturers with the highest quality raws will see their business increase. And those with lower quality will see their business decrease.

At that point the manufacturers will have a business incentive to spend more time/money on increasing the quality of their raws. Will end consumers see a price increase? Maybe 5-10% at most.

And once a certain level of quality is reached, the race to the bottom on pricing begins again.

10 years ago no one did testing on finish oils. Now it’s a necessity to survive in this business. And guess what… finished oil is dirt cheap compared to 10 years ago. Higher quality AND cheaper?? Curious how that works

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Markets have an amazing way of adjusting themselves.

Once raws testing begins, the Chinese manufacturers with the highest quality raws will see their business increase. And those with lower quality will see their business decrease.

Very doubtful

Some of the biggest names still sell shit gear fairly well.

Domestic supply comes to mind

 

[lift4lyfe]

Very doubtful

Some of the biggest names still sell shit gear fairly well.

Domestic supply comes to mind

Agreed. There's always the uneducated/unsuspecting/careless consumer that will end up purchasing lower quality products for the same price (if not more) than higher quality products.

But the market of discerning consumers is growing. Look at the growth of the "health and wellness" industry. Look at how many people ask vendors for Jano testing. Markets are moving in this direction whether you believe in it or not.