Motomatt said:
Do you use DIM from Beyond-A-Century ?
Thnx
No, haven't tried their version yet. If you note, their DIM powder is the "non enhanced" version (i.e., like IndolPlex and Source Naturals and some others sell enhanced versions which supposedly help with the DIM retaining its bioavailability).
To date I have tried the "plain" DIM in 200 mg tablets offered at "Young Again Products" (like $9.95 for 60 tablets of 200 mg DIM). I have tried Source Naturals brand of enhanced DIM. I have tried various strengths of the different IndolPlex type offerings (IndolPlex and some of the other brand names it is now marketed under). And what I have primarily noticed is that as my Total T / Free T levels increased, my E2 has increased.
Does that mean that the DIM hasn't been working? Not necessarily. At below normal range levels of Total T, I had E2 around 21. As Total T went up (as docs slowly increased AG, then Testim), the E2 also slowly went up. Last Labs (a couple weeks ago) had E2 at 41 (range of 10 - 60). Maybe without the DIM the current E2 level would be even higher? Or maybe just about the same?
From anecdotal evidence, it seems that DIM simply doesn't seem to work for some males. It also seems that some males are VERY sensitive to the effects of DIM - especially the enhanced versions. I simply find it amazing that some individuals are having effects to the extent that they get down to using 1/2 tabs (maybe even 1/4 tabs) of IndolPlex. That is so maddening when one considers that IndolPlex (a 120 mg tablet) is only 25% DIM. Therefore only 30 mg of said tablet is DIM. 1/2 of that tablet is 15 mg of DIM and 1/4 tablet is only 7.5 mg of DIM. (*)
One thing that I can specifically state is this... whether or not DIM is working for me, I have noticed no difference between effects of IndolPlex, Source Natural's "enhanced version" (different formula than the IndolPlex type version patented by Dr. Michael Zelig's and marketed under several brand names now than simply IndolPlex - different brands, different strengths, etc... plus to complicate matters more, Dr Zelig's own company markets a brand of his enhanced DIM that is the same formula but is 150 mg - but still 25% actual DIM).... or just plain DIM taken in higher dose (200 mg) with some oily foods.
Larry
(*) I finally obtained a copy of Dr Zelig's little booklet "All About DIM" to see what his dosage recommendations are. I was disappointed overall with the "book", but did note that Dr Zelig's himself recommends the "dose range of DIM for men is 200 to 400 mg taken with food", and later goes on to say that "for men involved in a plan of muscular development or fat loss, the dose of bioavailable DIM should be increased to 400 - 500 mg per day". Now recall that his formula has only 25% DIM, so that a 120 mg tablet of IndolPlex has only 30 mg of "bioavailable DIM". Under those recommendations, attaining 300 mg of "bioavailable DIM" would require one take ten tablets of IndolPlex!
(See: "All About DIM", page 76, "What is the typical dose of absorbable DIM for Men?")
So even the "inventor" (patent holder as these are all natural substances) recommends pretty high doses, yet individuals are reporting positive effects with seemingly minute amounts.
