SymBiotics (U.S. domestic)

Bingo! You have guys like me who have two very small windows a year to cycle as I see my trt doc every 6 months. Therefore I can only cycle for 3 and have to be off for 3. Than on top of that the world and gyms shut down so I lost my window. Heck, I haven’t ran a cycle since nearly this time last year (last August). There’s probably quite a few here with the same scenario as me as surly I’m not the only one that is monitored by a doc for trt.

I purchased Sym’s trenE late December for a February cycle that unfortunately didn’t happen due you the rona.

Anywho, I see doc on Friday so guess what time it is :)
I learned my lesson in 2014 not to cut it so close anymore on my trt test. I used to wait until I opened my last vial to re-up figuring I had over 2 months until that vial ran out which at the time felt like a pretty good cushion. Well one fateful day I opened that last vial and fumbled the vial and dropped it on the tile floor in my kitchen. My two month cushion turned into panick as I wiped up the glass and test off the floor thinking how unfortunate I was to not even had gotten one pin out of it to give myself a one week window to get more. I was fucked! And worst of all I didn't even have a domestic source at the time as I got caught up in the pharmacom bullshit and was ordering international like a dumbass.

Fast forward to today and all the US domestic labs could disappear overnight and I wouldn't have to start worrying for at least 4 to 5 years ;) And no none of that shit is kept in house after purchase. Too many sorry fuckers have gotten busted during otherwise mundane random police calls, ie the wife calls the police after a a break in and what's that is that illegal steroids on that dresser, here comes the search warrant and here comes your life getting tossed upside down. And then theres the disgruntled ex etc etc etc.
 
I’m on syms sust and EQ right now. Whenever I pinned delts this morning I noticed a black spec in the barrel, pulled it out and there was def something in it. I inspected the rest of my vials (15+syms) and didn’t see any floaters. I’m 95% sure it was a rubber piece from the stopper from repeated uses. But I figured I’d share anyway.
Yea man same thing happened to me. I've been on syms test and metformin since May and as I was going to take a shower just now, my girlfriend noticed this around my injection site....I'm sure it's nothing serious just thought I'd share1540149327_maxresdefault-277x156.jpg
 
Hello everyone.
I believe I have reached a conclusion on the source of contaminant(s) and formed a plan for remedy of any chance of foreign matter entering vials.
Contaminant source:
A: I feel almost 100% certain that any fibers found inside the vials would be cellulose or polypropylene fibers from the sterilization wraps I used for my vial trays. In all honesty, I was somewhat surprised at how commonplace it is for sterilization wraps and sterile gowns to shed fibers. I will try to code a link and add a pdf with informative information about the subject at the end of this post. I have never coded a link here; so I am unsure how but I will try. I the links work, there is an image of the type of 'lint' I saw on my gloves that prompted me to discard the sheets and 28 vial trays a while back. It may be in the PDF; I can't remember. I have read and looked at an enormous amount of information. What I encountered was nothing as severe as the picture; but it was the same color and texture.
B: Hematite or iron oxide (rust) is one of the most frequent contaminants found in sterile liquid pharmaceutical products. Some articles claim that it is the most frequent contaminant. Any black specks seen within the vials will most likely be rust particles from vial manufacturing or, again, from the sterilization wraps manufacturing equipment.
C: It is possible that things floating in the air can get in the vial during the time my smaller trays are exposed before the wrap is applied. I am very careful and practice very good hygiene when this is done; but I do not have a certified clean-room and I am not sterile during the vial transfer to my autoclave trays.

Please keep in mind that this is common enough for billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies and hospital surgical suites to have encountered the same issues-----prompting articles to be written and resolution strategies to be designed. While I do my very best to do a good job at this; I am not nearly as equipped as many entities who have had similar issues. In short----I have done the absolute best I could do with what I had to work with.

Going forward:
From my deduction, there is a singular root cause to any potential contamination of a vial; and that is the process of sterilization of the vials. I have looked for hours at different sterile vial suppliers and I have found one with vials that are of nearly the same dimensions as mine but do not have the blowback ridge for the stopper since they are not North American made. This is not a problem and I intend to use these pre-sterilized vials for any future injectable preparations.
I am not using pre-sterilized vials because they will be 'more sterile' than my process; but because they are sterilized by gamma radiation and have no contact with synthetic or natural fiber wraps. It will cost me more money; but will take a step out of my process that will benefit everyone.

Existing stock:
I'm not going to empty out all of those vials and re-filter them. I'm just not. The contents of those vials are sterile and I have not found one single fiber/floater/pube/or otherwise in them. I'm not finished with them yet; but I haven't found anything so far EXCEPT some inclusions that look like black spots within the walls of a few of the vials. This is a common problem that is discussed in one of the links I have as well if anyone would like to read about it. These black spots are rust also and they are contained within the glass; so there is no way that they could ever enter the body through injecting the contents of the vial. The injectable vials will still be available for purchase after each one is examined and then examined again under blacklight.

Refunds and reshipments:
Nothing has changed about the way I stand behind my products. Anyone who has any product that has:
  1. a bad analytical test (with a legitimate report),
  2. a vial with visible contaminants (with a photo of the contaminant), or
  3. an omission/mistake in their order
will receive his/her choice of an immediate refund for the affected container(s) or a reshipment of the same value.

I was very caught off guard by this whole thing and I was/am embarrassed about it.
However, in the last couple of days there have been many people who emailed me to demand their entire order be replaced, including oral suspensions and armodafinil.
One even threatened to ruin my "bitch ass in the anabolic world" if I didn't refund AND reship his order. I do not respond to threats well.
I am not going to reship or refund full orders as some sort of expectation; and those representatives of the community have completely removed any excess generosity I had going into this problem resolution.
I do not mind helping and I require myself to make amends; but I will certainly not be taken advantage of in that way.

I am open to any questions or comments and I am always willing to work for an amicable solution. This is a sound theory of contamination possibility and a sound proposal for remedy of any future contamination potential.

I am very very tired and I need to sleep tonight. I realize that there will be some emails that pass the 24 hour mark before I can reply in the morning; but I have gone as long as I can without sleep now.
No person will be left with an issue that is not addressed. Just please remember that there are 10x as many worried-well emails as there are potential issues and each person gets the same level of attention. Emails are answered in the order they are received; except for new order emails which are left to the autoreply only.

I want to briefly inquire about the widespread inability to take photographs of these contaminants:
My phone is fairly old; but it has a 8mp camera that takes very good photos.
In the photos below there is a speck I saw in a NPP vial. It is tiny and is circled in blue. It was actually on the label and circled in blue in the 2nd picture although I mangled the label when trying to remove it. Yes, this is in my bathroom and this is from my personal supplies that are the same as what I send out in packages. And yes, that is a floss pick beside it for reference of size. The point of these pictures is to show that my ordinary phone can take pictures of very tiny specks at very close distances. Also, of note is that I did not see that until I looked into the vial for about 2 minutes.
npp speck.jpg
npp speck label.jpg

The link for the article is here. I hope it is done right.

Code:
https://www.mccrone.com/mm/contaminant-identification-pharmaceutical-products/
 

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I'm not going to empty out all of those vials and re-filter them. I'm just not.

That's all we need to know right there.

As far as A, B, and C-

A. Sterile wraps, etc do not shed fibers. That would defeat the purpose of them.

B. There is no iron or iron oxide created during the manufacturing process for glass, rubber, or aluminum.

C. This is most likely- you contaminated the process post sterilization. And as you stated, you are NOT going to refilter.
 
I want to briefly inquire about the widespread inability to take photographs of these contaminants:

I have one photo of a black speck that moves with the liquid and the other vial with a lint hair (best guess) that also moves with the liquid. I could not get my camera to focus on it right given the cylindrical vial really distorts the image and confuses the auto focus. I’ll try again tomorrow to get that second pic.

Here’s the black speck one
 

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leave it to the braindead conspiracy theorists claiming “this can’t be real, this is like the me too movement!” to give him a defense

many people acknowledged there were marks on the stickers that may be confusing when looking for floaters. however, every single person confirmed that the particles moved with the oil and there are plenty of pictures of these particles

are people emailing him claiming to have particles and demanding full refunds? maybe? but it hasn’t happened here. every single person making a floater claim has posted proof of it
 
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its a bummer about the issues with the vials but sounds like Sym's on top of it. The good news is the gear is on point as always, here are my labs after 8 weeks on Sym's Sustanon @ only ~400mg a week (200mg every 72 hours), which is low-moderate for me alongside of 400mg of Sym's Eq (also 200mg every 72 hours) - and they both showed up pretty clearly in the bloods. The test is higher than I expected to be at this dose and RDW & MCH refer red cell distribution & red blood protein count (as I learned from the google) which all gear nerds is a trademark of good equipoise. I included the rest of the panel for full disclosure. I know my estrogen is high af, I been lazy on taking my AI, so def upping that. and my HDL has been in the shitter from a couple year of blast and cruise so no surprise there.

Shit happens here and there but all together but Symbiotics Gear is still as real as it gets IMO.
 
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its a bummer about the issues with the vials but sounds like Sym's on top of it. The good news is the gear is on point as always, here are my labs after 8 weeks on Sym's Sustanon @ only ~400mg a week (200mg every 72 hours), which is low-moderate for me alongside of 400mg of Sym's Eq (also 200mg every 72 hours) - and they both showed up pretty clearly in the bloods. The test is higher than I expected to be at this dose and RDW & MCH refer red cell distribution & red blood protein count (as I learned from the google) which all gear nerds is a trademark of good equipoise. I included the rest of the panel for full disclosure. I know my estrogen is high af, I been lazy on taking my AI, so def upping that. and my HDL has been in the shitter from a couple year of blast and cruise so no surprise there.

Shit happens here and there but all together but Symbiotics Gear is still as real as it gets IMO.
Weird account this guy.
 
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its a bummer about the issues with the vials but sounds like Sym's on top of it. The good news is the gear is on point as always, here are my labs after 8 weeks on Sym's Sustanon @ only ~400mg a week (200mg every 72 hours), which is low-moderate for me alongside of 400mg of Sym's Eq (also 200mg every 72 hours) - and they both showed up pretty clearly in the bloods. The test is higher than I expected to be at this dose and RDW & MCH refer red cell distribution & red blood protein count (as I learned from the google) which all gear nerds is a trademark of good equipoise. I included the rest of the panel for full disclosure. I know my estrogen is high af, I been lazy on taking my AI, so def upping that. and my HDL has been in the shitter from a couple year of blast and cruise so no surprise there.

Shit happens here and there but all together but Symbiotics Gear is still as real as it gets IMO.

you should probably remove those pictures and re evaluate the information on it that you left visible. At a glance I can see a few things that could directly identify who you are in the wrong hands.
 
C: It is possible that things floating in the air can get in the vial during the time my smaller trays are exposed before the wrap is applied. I am very careful and practice very good hygiene when this is done; but I do not have a certified clean-room and I am not sterile during the vial transfer to my autoclave trays.
Your intro pics show a flow vent hood. Do you not use that thing anymore, or was that just for looks and belongs to someone else? If you’re opening your clave bags in the hood, there should be nothing floating around in there to get into the vials, except the possible particles from the bags as you described. Even then, that doesn’t really sound plausible. There are UGL’s which don’t even have a flow hood and they don’t have particles in their gear, so I’m not sure I really buy this.

I pretty much question how rust is created in the process of making your vials, and even if that were a possibility, why did you not catch these? Same with the rubber or butyl stoppers and the aluminum caps. Like literally, you are the only person this has seemingly happened to. Aluminum rusting just from being manufactured or autoclaved? Come on. There is no iron in aluminum, so please explain how rust is created? Oxidization, possibly. That’s the biggest load of garbage I’ve ever seen and it makes me think you’re just trying to act scientific and us dumb meatheads will just buy it. Also, the caps never touch the inner vial, so how would said particles be getting past the stopper and into your vials? Maybe you didn’t flush your lines prior to dispensing.

You are refusing to refilter your gear and are just going to continue to sell stuff that is possibly contaminated? And don’t give me crap that your particles are sterile. It’s still a foreign contaminant that could cause a sterile abscess.

In short, your excuses are lame and your action plan sucks.
 
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Existing stock:
I'm not going to empty out all of those vials and re-filter them. I'm just not. The contents of those vials are sterile and I have not found one single fiber/floater/pube/or otherwise in them. I'm not finished with them yet; but I haven't found anything so far EXCEPT some inclusions that look like black spots within the walls of a few of the vials. This is a common problem that is discussed in one of the links I have as well if anyone would like to read about it. These black spots are rust also and they are contained within the glass; so there is no way that they could ever enter the body through injecting the contents of the vial. The injectable vials will still be available for purchase after each one is examined and then examined again under blacklight.

I personally wouldn't want to take the chace on his gear that is in question. To me this is literally use at your own risk....Buyer beware. Its all it takes is one little fiber to not be seen and you have a chance to get infection.
 
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its a bummer about the issues with the vials but sounds like Sym's on top of it. The good news is the gear is on point as always, here are my labs after 8 weeks on Sym's Sustanon @ only ~400mg a week (200mg every 72 hours), which is low-moderate for me alongside of 400mg of Sym's Eq (also 200mg every 72 hours) - and they both showed up pretty clearly in the bloods. The test is higher than I expected to be at this dose and RDW & MCH refer red cell distribution & red blood protein count (as I learned from the google) which all gear nerds is a trademark of good equipoise. I included the rest of the panel for full disclosure. I know my estrogen is high af, I been lazy on taking my AI, so def upping that. and my HDL has been in the shitter from a couple year of blast and cruise so no surprise there.

Shit happens here and there but all together but Symbiotics Gear is still as real as it gets IMO.

What in the world are you doing to keep your RBC and Hematocrit in control like that?
 
I personally wouldn't want to take the chace on his gear that is in question. To me this is literally use at your own risk....Buyer beware. Its all it takes is one little fiber to not be seen and you have a chance to get infection.

Yeah I think his decision on trying to sell the existing stock as is might do him in here. It could very well be sterile but it’s not a good look.
 
Yeah I think his decision on trying to sell the existing stock as is might do him in here. It could very well be sterile but it’s not a good look.
Yea he should know to reduce everybody’s concerns the best solution is to scrap all his inventory and start over with better protocols in place like examining every vial before he ships them out to improve quality control
 
Again, that’s not helping Sym’s cause. Unless you’re intent upon being one of his only customers. Sources with only a handful of purchasers tend to leave quick.

If you’re going to use his product like that then be quiet about it. Don’t advocate that on a harm reduction forum. That’s the kind of stuff the bro bro’s say on ASF

From my research before purchasing Syms products I felt that he is professional, and not an experimenting Joe Smo learning off of YouTube. I’m helping Syms cause, because he told me/us that matter got inside them before the autoclave, therefore, anything in there is sterile after the autoclave. If nothing were in the vials and clean before the autoclave then that’s even better. Like my vials. Quality control I know, he should have done better, but to write him off and crucify him because of a mistake that happens across the board is a little harsh. Not to mention, he is doing his best to rectify the problem. Am I going to buy off of him again, with out a doubt. I believe we are nailing him to the cross for something he didn’t intend to do. This slipped under his eye, that doesn’t make him less of a skilled brewer. It’s like Jordan missing a jumper, does that not make him a great ball player. I know Meso is a harm reduction thread and is the reason why I’m here. I know things can happen even at a pharmaceutical level.
 
From my research before purchasing Syms products I felt that he is professional, and not an experimenting Joe Smo learning off of YouTube. I’m helping Syms cause, because he told me/us that matter got inside them before the autoclave, therefore, anything in there is sterile after the autoclave. If nothing were in the vials and clean before the autoclave then that’s even better. Like my vials. Quality control I know, he should have done better, but to write him off and crucify him because of a mistake that happens across the board is a little harsh. Not to mention, he is doing his best to rectify the problem. Am I going to buy off of him again, with out a doubt. I believe we are nailing him to the cross for something he didn’t intend to do. This slipped under his eye, that doesn’t make him less of a skilled brewer. It’s like Jordan missing a jumper, does that not make him a great ball player. I know Meso is a harm reduction thread and is the reason why I’m here. I know things can happen even at a pharmaceutical level.
What is he actually doing to rectify the situation? Selling shit with “sterile” floaters in it and not re-filtering? Seriously man, WTF is wrong with you? This is pure carelessness and lack of QC since at least December and this shit has been under the radar.

It’s things like that which keeps people like SP and Sym around here - so damn desperate for a source that you settle for bullshit and lame ass excuses. Hold these UGL’s to higher standards instead of making excuses for them or justifying their “mistakes.”
 
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