MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

SymBiotics (U.S. domestic)

See the sad thing about this is your going to have people who have no business using or are to young freaking out and buying whatever with no thought on what they are doing. 10 years ago I started playing around and I didn't follow any advise went Willy nilly and caused more harm than good. 10 years latter I'm going to make a smarter decision and learn right now I know I need to get my diet in check. I guess the moral of the story don't make rash decisions this was here 10 years latter ride it out. It's not going away also Ruff says crack is wack sorry for the dramatic all about me post
 
So here’s how I see the situation at hand....
The issue here is the source NOT MESO!
Imo, Meso needs no changing at all.

Of course our security should always be priority. As long as we are doing what we need to be doing to stay safe then so should the source we are dealing with!
If they cannot do that then that’s when they get shoved out of here and we move to another source that can do what is needed.
There’s no perfect plan and I’ve learned long ago you can’t keep anyone from ordering prematurely. So...
This is why constantly vetting sources and keeping things out in the open are important! To provide information to help people make their decision and let shit fall into place however it may. Up until the source fucks up beyond repair and we stick together and get their ass out of here! o_O
:)
 
bolder said:
So here’s how I see the situation at hand....
The issue here is the source NOT MESO!
Imo, Meso needs no changing at all.

Of course our security should always be priority. As long as we are doing what we need to be doing to stay safe then so should the source we are dealing with!
If they cannot do that then that’s when they get shoved out of here and we move to another source that can do what is needed.
There’s no perfect plan and I’ve learned long ago you can’t keep anyone from ordering prematurely. So...
This is why constantly vetting sources and keeping things out in the open are important! To provide information to help people make their decision and let shit fall into place however it may. Up until the source fucks up beyond repair and we stick together and get their ass out of here! o_O
:)
Click to expand...
Bet you posted that after your third cup of coffee lmao.

Seriously a great post :)
 
This is a long post but it's pertinent to how LE could have likely got involved here.

I've followed this entire thread waiting to see how things played out with Symbiotics. Now that he's in the shitter, I'm watching everyone's reactions, taking notes from those that have been in this game and dealt with similar situations and learning.
I've been observing everyone's reactions and trying to gauge the suggestions for tighter security here.

To understand LE, we have to think like LE. Big busts are not done by some jackass local police force and just like masterofron said, they don't want little fish to prosecute for personal AAS use (the schedule III substance rating on AAS is a fucking joke and even the big heads in LE know that).

If LE is after anyone, it's big fish. Those busts represent a notch on LE organizations belt and they probably don't really give a fuck about steroid use...it's not a godamn nationwide pandemic with news coverage.

There are surely state and federal departments whose jurisdiction is solely appointed to nailing AAS distributors and manufacturers.
...no specific number of posts, liked posts or other forms of vetting will stop dedicated LE on the federal level from bringing down bigger targets if they really want to...period.
Vetting and other methods are a great way to keep this forum clean of spammers/scammers, keep morons out, and stop this forum from becoming the shit show that everyone talks about concerning other forums...it will not stop "real" dedicated LE going after big fish.

This forum is not a pedophile site providing sources for material that people should be shot for producing or distributing. If the content here were as fucked up as that shot, no VPN/TOR/2fa/256bit encryption, etc would stop LE from eventually shutting it down and rounding more of us up.

Intelligent LE would work like this:

Plant several agents in a few AAS communities of various types for at least a few but probably many years. This is usually done by busting already long standing members of a few AAS communities and converting them into agents (informants) under threat of severe legal action, etc. This happens all the time in illegal drug operations and I have personally witnessed the whole process.

(1)Allow those agents some time to become trusted and credible members in the community if they are not already...which 90% of the time they would be.

(2)Let the agents develop strong bonds and relationships with non-agents in the community or continue to strengthen the bonds they have.

(3)Have agents eventually work together to establish credibility as teams so as to either be (a) difficult to reproach by other established members and/or (b) to be backed by other established members, when reproached in a dodgy situation that would destroy their credibility.

(4)Have the agents make purchases and interact with suppliers for long periods of time without making a bust so as to remain inconspicuous.

(5)Share information with other agents about supplier information.

(6)Share information with different LE agencies who bide their time to make a bust with charges that stick in court.

(7)LE agencies then use the gathered information about the communities, their members, and suppliers, to Infrequently and randomly bring down sources in a manner that does not implicate the agent or agents as the sources connected to the bust.

Rinse and repeat. Keep catching big fish and stay inconspicuous.
From an LE perspective, this nets WAY more sources and information than a one off bust and is well worth their time invested in accomplishing what they are really after without having to set up shop over and over again.

BIG LE is smart.

It is highly unlikely that they are some clowns creating new accounts constantly to subvert large operations on a prayer without extensive inside knowledge on how to bring bigger fish down. LE creating new accounts may be a way to help rope in their targets but they are NOT the primary way a functional task force would operate.

Symbiotics was the perfect fucking target!
He was not well known or established, did not have many or any ties to other operations, and had not been in the distribution game solo as far as we can tell.
Bringing him down quickly and swiftly does not raise flags for sister or parent operations that an agent (informant) could be tied to and it nets LE the possibility of bringing down his raws/equipment suppliers.
Sitting on a bust to net something bigger from Symbiotics would have been a waste of LE's time.
The guy had everything to loose...everything.
He sounded like an intelligent average Joe trying to make a fast buck.
If they nail him directly, they'll flip him in a heartbeat...he's not a criminal and didn't appear to operate in the criminal world. He wouldn't know how to handle getting nailed.

I don't buy that he was using his iPhone either...the guy was way to smart for that shit and way too much invested in his life and his operation not to play it safe. I also think he mentioned in a post in this thread that he had to wait to get home to use a dedicated computer to answer questions.

He could have gotten hacked, he could have gotten sloppy but it's my opinion that he got nailed by someone inside this forum and it wasn't a noob...just makes more sense for LE to use an established plant here. Think like "big LE"
 
OnTheRize said:
This is a long post but it's pertinent to how LE could have likely got involved here.

I've followed this entire thread waiting to see how things played out with Symbiotics. Now that he's in the shitter, I'm watching everyone's reactions, taking notes from those that have been in this game and dealt with similar situations and learning.
I've been observing everyone's reactions and trying to gauge the suggestions for tighter security here.

To understand LE, we have to think like LE. Big busts are not done by some jackass local police force and just like masterofron said, they don't want little fish to prosecute for personal AAS use (the schedule III substance rating on AAS is a fucking joke and even the big heads in LE know that).

If LE is after anyone, it's big fish. Those busts represent a notch on LE organizations belt and they probably don't really give a fuck about steroid use...it's not a godamn nationwide pandemic with news coverage.

There are surely state and federal departments whose jurisdiction is solely appointed to nailing AAS distributors and manufacturers.
...no specific number of posts, liked posts or other forms of vetting will stop dedicated LE on the federal level from bringing down bigger targets if they really want to...period.
Vetting and other methods are a great way to keep this forum clean of spammers/scammers, keep morons out, and stop this forum from becoming the shit show that everyone talks about concerning other forums...it will not stop "real" dedicated LE going after big fish.

This forum is not a pedophile site providing sources for material that people should be shot for producing or distributing. If the content here were as fucked up as that shot, no VPN/TOR/2fa/256bit encryption, etc would stop LE from eventually shutting it down and rounding more of us up.

Intelligent LE would work like this:

Plant several agents in a few AAS communities of various types for at least a few but probably many years. This is usually done by busting already long standing members of a few AAS communities and converting them into agents (informants) under threat of severe legal action, etc. This happens all the time in illegal drug operations and I have personally witnessed the whole process.

(1)Allow those agents some time to become trusted and credible members in the community if they are not already...which 90% of the time they would be.

(2)Let the agents develop strong bonds and relationships with non-agents in the community or continue to strengthen the bonds they have.

(3)Have agents eventually work together to establish credibility as teams so as to either be (a) difficult to reproach by other established members and/or (b) to be backed by other established members, when reproached in a dodgy situation that would destroy their credibility.

(4)Have the agents make purchases and interact with suppliers for long periods of time without making a bust so as to remain inconspicuous.

(5)Share information with other agents about supplier information.

(6)Share information with different LE agencies who bide their time to make a bust with charges that stick in court.

(7)LE agencies then use the gathered information about the communities, their members, and suppliers, to Infrequently and randomly bring down sources in a manner that does not implicate the agent or agents as the sources connected to the bust.

Rinse and repeat. Keep catching big fish and stay inconspicuous.
From an LE perspective, this nets WAY more sources and information than a one off bust and is well worth their time invested in accomplishing what they are really after without having to set up shop over and over again.

BIG LE is smart.

It is highly unlikely that they are some clowns creating new accounts constantly to subvert large operations on a prayer without extensive inside knowledge on how to bring bigger fish down. LE creating new accounts may be a way to help rope in their targets but they are NOT the primary way a functional task force would operate.

Symbiotics was the perfect fucking target!
He was not well known or established, did not have many or any ties to other operations, and had not been in the distribution game solo as far as we can tell.
Bringing him down quickly and swiftly does not raise flags for sister or parent operations that an agent (informant) could be tied to and it nets LE the possibility of bringing down his raws/equipment suppliers.
Sitting on a bust to net something bigger from Symbiotics would have been a waste of LE's time.
The guy had everything to loose...everything.
He sounded like an intelligent average Joe trying to make a fast buck.
If they nail him directly, they'll flip him in a heartbeat...he's not a criminal and didn't appear to operate in the criminal world. He wouldn't know how to handle getting nailed.

I don't buy that he was using his iPhone either...the guy was way to smart for that shit and way too much invested in his life and his operation not to play it safe. I also think he mentioned in a post in this thread that he had to wait to get home to use a dedicated computer to answer questions.

He could have gotten hacked, he could have gotten sloppy but it's my opinion that he got nailed by someone inside this forum and it wasn't a noob...just makes more sense for LE to use an established plant here. Think like "big LE"
Click to expand...


Great fucking post dude seriously!
 
OnTheRize said:
This is a long post but it's pertinent to how LE could have likely got involved here.

I've followed this entire thread waiting to see how things played out with Symbiotics. Now that he's in the shitter, I'm watching everyone's reactions, taking notes from those that have been in this game and dealt with similar situations and learning.
I've been observing everyone's reactions and trying to gauge the suggestions for tighter security here.

To understand LE, we have to think like LE. Big busts are not done by some jackass local police force and just like masterofron said, they don't want little fish to prosecute for personal AAS use (the schedule III substance rating on AAS is a fucking joke and even the big heads in LE know that).

If LE is after anyone, it's big fish. Those busts represent a notch on LE organizations belt and they probably don't really give a fuck about steroid use...it's not a godamn nationwide pandemic with news coverage.

There are surely state and federal departments whose jurisdiction is solely appointed to nailing AAS distributors and manufacturers.
...no specific number of posts, liked posts or other forms of vetting will stop dedicated LE on the federal level from bringing down bigger targets if they really want to...period.
Vetting and other methods are a great way to keep this forum clean of spammers/scammers, keep morons out, and stop this forum from becoming the shit show that everyone talks about concerning other forums...it will not stop "real" dedicated LE going after big fish.

This forum is not a pedophile site providing sources for material that people should be shot for producing or distributing. If the content here were as fucked up as that shot, no VPN/TOR/2fa/256bit encryption, etc would stop LE from eventually shutting it down and rounding more of us up.

Intelligent LE would work like this:

Plant several agents in a few AAS communities of various types for at least a few but probably many years. This is usually done by busting already long standing members of a few AAS communities and converting them into agents (informants) under threat of severe legal action, etc. This happens all the time in illegal drug operations and I have personally witnessed the whole process.

(1)Allow those agents some time to become trusted and credible members in the community if they are not already...which 90% of the time they would be.

(2)Let the agents develop strong bonds and relationships with non-agents in the community or continue to strengthen the bonds they have.

(3)Have agents eventually work together to establish credibility as teams so as to either be (a) difficult to reproach by other established members and/or (b) to be backed by other established members, when reproached in a dodgy situation that would destroy their credibility.

(4)Have the agents make purchases and interact with suppliers for long periods of time without making a bust so as to remain inconspicuous.

(5)Share information with other agents about supplier information.

(6)Share information with different LE agencies who bide their time to make a bust with charges that stick in court.

(7)LE agencies then use the gathered information about the communities, their members, and suppliers, to Infrequently and randomly bring down sources in a manner that does not implicate the agent or agents as the sources connected to the bust.

Rinse and repeat. Keep catching big fish and stay inconspicuous.
From an LE perspective, this nets WAY more sources and information than a one off bust and is well worth their time invested in accomplishing what they are really after without having to set up shop over and over again.

BIG LE is smart.

It is highly unlikely that they are some clowns creating new accounts constantly to subvert large operations on a prayer without extensive inside knowledge on how to bring bigger fish down. LE creating new accounts may be a way to help rope in their targets but they are NOT the primary way a functional task force would operate.

Symbiotics was the perfect fucking target!
He was not well known or established, did not have many or any ties to other operations, and had not been in the distribution game solo as far as we can tell.
Bringing him down quickly and swiftly does not raise flags for sister or parent operations that an agent (informant) could be tied to and it nets LE the possibility of bringing down his raws/equipment suppliers.
Sitting on a bust to net something bigger from Symbiotics would have been a waste of LE's time.
The guy had everything to loose...everything.
He sounded like an intelligent average Joe trying to make a fast buck.
If they nail him directly, they'll flip him in a heartbeat...he's not a criminal and didn't appear to operate in the criminal world. He wouldn't know how to handle getting nailed.

I don't buy that he was using his iPhone either...the guy was way to smart for that shit and way too much invested in his life and his operation not to play it safe. I also think he mentioned in a post in this thread that he had to wait to get home to use a dedicated computer to answer questions.

He could have gotten hacked, he could have gotten sloppy but it's my opinion that he got nailed by someone inside this forum and it wasn't a noob...just makes more sense for LE to use an established plant here. Think like "big LE"
Click to expand...
Perfect write up, thank you.

I’ll add one thing to the last detail you mentioned- somewhere in this thread symbiotics himself mentioned how he did not like to use his phone for any emails. Ironic seeing as his excuse was the exact thing he basically said he didn’t do..
 
Masterofron said:
Perfect write up, thank you.

I’ll add one thing to the last detail you mentioned- somewhere in this thread symbiotics himself mentioned how he did not like to use his phone for any emails. Ironic seeing as his excuse was the exact thing he basically said he didn’t do..
Click to expand...


Do you huys think he was possible LE? I mean with all the equipment he had and the way he conducted his emails, his comms, his right answer for everything seemed almost like they studied for this shit! he knew exactly how to answer everything. Something seemed off....to me anyway. No avaerage dude has a setup like he did. that took some backing in my opinion. Maybe he was LE himself kind of seeing if they could infiltrate gather up a bunch of names addys maybe to get people to start the process for something bigger?
 
Masterofron said:
Perfect write up, thank you.

I’ll add one thing to the last detail you mentioned- somewhere in this thread symbiotics himself mentioned how he did not like to use his phone for any emails. Ironic seeing as his excuse was the exact thing he basically said he didn’t do..
Click to expand...

Actually, I think he stated it was something to do with his iOS. That’s what all Apple products run on though, including Apple computers.
 
BigBaldBeardGuy said:
Actually, I think he stated it was something to do with his iOS. That’s what all Apple products run on though, including Apple computers.
Click to expand...
Apple Mac desktops and MacBooks use MacOS X.

Stinkfinger1112 said:
Do you huys think he was possible LE? I mean with all the equipment he had and the way he conducted his emails, his comms, his right answer for everything seemed almost like they studied for this shit! he knew exactly how to answer everything. Something seemed off....to me anyway. No avaerage dude has a setup like he did. that took some backing in my opinion. Maybe he was LE himself kind of seeing if they could infiltrate gather up a bunch of names addys maybe to get people to start the process for something bigger?
Click to expand...
Who knows...thus the reason new sources are vetted.
 
Stinkfinger1112 said:
Do you huys think he was possible LE? I mean with all the equipment he had and the way he conducted his emails, his comms, his right answer for everything seemed almost like they studied for this shit! he knew exactly how to answer everything. Something seemed off....to me anyway. No avaerage dude has a setup like he did. that took some backing in my opinion. Maybe he was LE himself kind of seeing if they could infiltrate gather up a bunch of names addys maybe to get people to start the process for something bigger?
Click to expand...

I thought that might be the case for a long time as well...he just seemed too good. Even if the guy had never run an operation before, he knew his shit. I believe it's possible that he was a legit chemistry professional in a career field that was not AAS manufacturing or distribution related. Whoever he was and whatever he did, he was "seemingly" a very intelligent individual.
There were very few solid missteps in his story as far as I could tell.
...odd thing is, if he was LE, what would an LE agency gain from closing up such an elaborate and seemingly perfect shop so soon?
LE would have gained sooo much from keeping the shop open longer, collecting data, letting him develop relationships and acquiring targets for future busts.
That much time invested into an operation that looked so legit? Why not keep it open? They didn't bag anyone significant over here, at least as far as we know. If he was LE and studied this forum so thoroughly, which I believe he did, then he would know that a PI coming to masterofron's home would have fucked up any potential low level busts with other clients of his...doesn't make sense.

If he was legit...

I can't imagine this guy didn't research the hell out of his opsec before proceeding with an open shop...which is why it's so strange he went down so quick. There is no way a guy who seemed to be of this caliber would risk it all without some heavy duty firewalls in place to insulate himself.
 
OnTheRize said:
I thought that might be the case for a long time as well...he just seemed too good. Even if the guy had never run an operation before, he knew his shit. I believe it's possible that he was a legit chemistry professional in a career field that was not AAS manufacturing or distribution related. Whoever he was and whatever he did, he was "seemingly" a very intelligent individual.
There were very few solid missteps in his story as far as I could tell.
...odd thing is, if he was LE, what would an LE agency gain from closing up such an elaborate and seemingly perfect shop so soon?
LE would have gained sooo much from keeping the shop open longer, collecting data, letting him develop relationships and acquiring targets for future busts.
That much time invested into an operation that looked so legit? Why not keep it open? They didn't bag anyone significant over here, at least as far as we know. If he was LE and studied this forum so thoroughly, which I believe he did, then he would know that a PI coming to masterofron's home would have fucked up any potential low level busts with other clients of his...doesn't make sense.

If he was legit...

I can't imagine this guy didn't research the hell out of his opsec before proceeding with an open shop...which is why it's so strange he went down so quick. There is no way a guy who seemed to be of this caliber would risk it all without some heavy duty firewalls in place to insulate himself.
Click to expand...
His opsec was questioned since his first post. Somehow we all (myself especially even after calling out some details) let it go...
 
OnTheRize said:
I thought that might be the case for a long time as well...he just seemed too good. Even if the guy had never run an operation before, he knew his shit. I believe it's possible that he was a legit chemistry professional in a career field that was not AAS manufacturing or distribution related. Whoever he was and whatever he did, he was "seemingly" a very intelligent individual.
There were very few solid missteps in his story as far as I could tell.
...odd thing is, if he was LE, what would an LE agency gain from closing up such an elaborate and seemingly perfect shop so soon?
LE would have gained sooo much from keeping the shop open longer, collecting data, letting him develop relationships and acquiring targets for future busts.
That much time invested into an operation that looked so legit? Why not keep it open? They didn't bag anyone significant over here, at least as far as we know. If he was LE and studied this forum so thoroughly, which I believe he did, then he would know that a PI coming to masterofron's home would have fucked up any potential low level busts with other clients of his...doesn't make sense.

If he was legit...

I can't imagine this guy didn't research the hell out of his opsec before proceeding with an open shop...which is why it's so strange he went down so quick. There is no way a guy who seemed to be of this caliber would risk it all without some heavy duty firewalls in place to insulate himself.
Click to expand...
Something never sat right with me about him - his operation was too perfect. I think there is more to the hacker infiltrating him than he let on, similar to BigJimm over at Monster
Mass or whatever it’s called. I think he got spooked the hell out from that as well as the intercepted pack of Masterofron’s.
 
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