Testing IGF-1 levels on Black Top Meditrope

DragoT

Member
Allrighty then... Ain't that fun...

@Roco Bama : I have switched to 4IU on March 14 (the day I've got my lab test result). Will do new lab on April 15. As I stated before, my goal is to maintain 220-240 for as long I can afford it. Such level would put me in the upper 95% of my age group. My baseline IGF-1 shows for whatever reason the natural HGH production declined faster/lower then statistical average for 55 old and while I could make an effort to find why, I don't see the rationale of doing so. If after April 15 I register 200, will up to 5IU. If it is 300, will go down to 3.5IU and so on. I hope that make sense to you.

@Just Fish : I agree - ignorance is a bliss and as everyone can see now, it runs wild not only within humanity, but wildlife as well, including marine one...

In my estimate, it should have taken about 24 hours before pushers/snake oil salesman's to come out of the woodwork. Well, I've underestimated that and will take a note of it.

I have to confess - along the wiliness to share result and experience, I was (a weakness of mine) conducting a social experiment. I wanted to see what would happen if I challenge the (religious) believes of specific social group, bodybuilders in this case.

1. Yes, everyone reacts/is affected by drugs differently. Human body is a complex machine and as with every complex mechanism, altering one component affects the overall performance and and in general, the purpose of said mechanism. Take a mechanical clock for example. Change the tension of the spring and the from time piece you turn it to "ticking" piece. Change a gear, and now you have "jewelry" in shape of a clock. From this prospective, It always fascinated me why people want to unnaturally alter parts of the "machine" in pursuit of perfection. I come, I read, I don't understand, I am done.

2. The fact I have a theory makes me... Homo Sapiens (to spare you an aneurysm - Homo Sapiens = Man Having Sense). Note it does not make me a "Wise Man", but rather one who learns progressively. Which brings us to #3

3. I've joined this forum with hope to learn form other's experience, not "to find a cheap source" as you assume. Then, I've decided to be a contributing member as well, because one should not only take, but give as well in order to restore the balance in the Force. And... before long, the Sith have reviled him self :)

4. To brand my theory "half ass" without challenging the basis of it does not bring any value whatsoever. it only makes one questioning your motives...

5. How I spent my money is not of anyone's interest, yours included. The fact I look for the best balance of value/result makes me smart, not cheap :)

Lastly, bringing my wife's ass in to this is low, very low for even for bodybuilder. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

To conclude this - this is going nowhere. I don't see value continuing this crap. I don't sell anything (besides my professional IT consulting services for $275/hour), I don't push anything in order to get a cut, I will never advice anyone to self destruct.

Ask and you shall receive.

I am uploading a current price list of just one source in Asia. Let see how long it will last before it is taken down by you or your buddies. Hope next time any of you who want to throw your hard earn money to the sharks (or fishes), stop and think for a minute. Or better... 15 minutes on Internet can save you 75% or more on your peptides.

Good luck and godspeed.

Capture.JPG
 

Just Fish

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
You came in here talking about a completely different source. If you had a brain you would have started a thread dedicated to your bullshit. You are not posting anything related to black top igf levels. "Amen" LMAO. Fucking clown
 

Seve

Member
HGH shuts down natural GH production. Baseline igf level while using rHGH will climb down to the bottom after a month or 2 at most. Did you pull bloods after you switched to 4ius daily. I think you are getting 75~85ng per iu (not 35ng) on the brand you're taking.
Roco was it you that mentioned you had that type of elevation from MK-677? If not sorry
 

TRT

Member
Ya but sources for cjc-1295 are hard to come by and then you have testing. Sounds like a headache or CT.lol that's probably the only reason I dont do it. I got 4 bottles of Mk.
 

Roco Bama

Member
Mk-677 is good. You can expect baseline igf to be raised by 80% with 25mg daily. cjc dac and all other peptides have to be made with recombinant technology, the same way as hgh so it is hard to find a legit American source. I did bloodwork on tom's cjc dac after being on it for 2 months. Here's the thread Tom's CJC DAC: IGF-1 Blood Test coming up. it raised my baseline by only 32% and it was quite expensive, $150 a month. Those chemically synthesized peptides floating around the market will still give you the side effects but they won't have any impact on GH/IGF levels but you'll never know unless you get a blood test. Mk677 is fortunately not a peptide so there are some legit sources out there.
 

mands

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
Mk-677 is good. You can expect baseline igf to be raised by 80% with 25mg daily. cjc dac and all other peptides have to be made with recombinant technology, the same way as hgh so it is hard to find a legit American source. I did bloodwork on tom's cjc dac after being on it for 2 months. Here's the thread Tom's CJC DAC: IGF-1 Blood Test coming up. it raised my baseline by only 32% and it was quite expensive, $150 a month. Those chemically synthesized peptides floating around the market will still give you the side effects but they won't have any impact on GH/IGF levels but you'll never know unless you get a blood test. Mk677 is fortunately not a peptide so there are some legit sources out there.
You are a little high at 80%. I would say 40% is the number you are looking for. At least in the studies I've seen at 25mg.

Two-month treatment of obese subjects with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 increases GH secretion, fat-free mass, and energy expenditure.
Svensson J1, Lönn L, Jansson JO, Murphy G, Wyss D, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Polvino W, Gertz B, Boseaus I, Sjöström L, Bengtsson BA.
Author information

Abstract
Obesity is associated with blunted GH secretion, unfavorable body composition, and increased cardiovascular mortality. The objective of this study was to investigate the effects of oral treatment with the GH secretagogue MK-677 on GH secretion and body composition in otherwise healthy obese males. The study was randomized, double blind, parallel, and placebo controlled. Twenty-four obese males, aged 18-50 yr, with body mass indexes greater than 30 kg/m2 and waist/hip ratios greater than 0.95, were treated with MK-677 25 mg (n = 12) or placebo (n = 12) daily for 8 weeks. Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) increased approximately 40% with MK-677 treatment (P < 0.001 vs. placebo). Serum IGF-binding protein-3 was also significantly increased (P < or = 0.001 vs. placebo). GH and PRL (peak and area under the curve values) were significantly increased after the initial dose of MK-677. Significant increases, with the exception of peak PRL, persisted at 2 and 8 weeks of treatment. The increases in GH and PRL after the initial dose were significantly greater than the increase seen after multiple doses. Serum and urinary concentrations of cortisol were not increased at 2 and 8 weeks (P = NS, vs. placebo). Fat-free mass increased significantly in the MK-677 treatment group when determined with dual energy x-ray absorptiometry (P < 0.01) or using a four-compartment model (P < 0.05). Total and visceral fat were not significantly changed with active therapy. The basal metabolic rate was significantly increased at 2 weeks of MK-677 treatment (P = 0.01) but not at 8 weeks (P = 0.1). Fasting concentrations of glucose and insulin were unchanged, whereas an oral glucose tolerance test showed impairment of glucose homeostasis at 2 and 8 weeks. We conclude that 2-month treatment with MK-677 in healthy obese males caused a sustained increase in serum levels of GH, IGF-I, and IGF-binding protein-3. The effects on cortisol secretion were transient. Changes in body composition and energy expenditure were of an anabolic nature, with a sustained increase in fat-free mass and a transient increase in basal metabolic rate. Further studies are needed to evaluate whether a higher dose of MK-677 or a more prolonged treatment period can promote a reduction in body fat.

PMID:

9467542

DOI:

10.1210/jcem.83.2.4539
Treatment with the oral growth hormone secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of bone formation and bone resorption in obese young males.
Svensson J1, Ohlsson C, Jansson JO, Murphy G, Wyss D, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Polvino W, Gertz B, Baylink D, Mohan S, Bengtsson BA.
Author information

Abstract
The effect of 2 months of treatment with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 on markers of bone metabolism was determined in healthy obese male subjects. This was a randomized, double-blind, parallel, placebo-controlled study. Twenty-four healthy obese males, 19-49 years of age, with body mass index > 30 kg/m2 were treated with MK-677 (25 mg/day; n = 12) or placebo (n = 12) for 8 weeks. MK-677 increased markers of bone formation; a 23% increase in the carboxy-terminal propeptide of type I procollagen levels and a 28% increase in procollagen III peptide levels were seen with as little as 2 weeks of MK-677 treatment (p < 0.01 and p = 0.001 vs. placebo, respectively) while a 15% increase in serum levels of osteocalcin was not detected until 8 weeks of treatment (p < 0.01 vs. placebo). Markers of bone resorption were induced within 2 weeks of treatment with MK-677; serum levels of the carboxy-terminal cross-linked telopeptide of type I collagen were increased 26% at 8 weeks (p = 0.001 vs. placebo), and urine hydroxyproline/creatinine and calcium/creatinine ratios at 8 weeks were increased by 23% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo) and 46% (p < 0.05 vs placebo), respectively, MK-677 increased serum insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 (IGFBP-5) by 43-44% after 2-8 weeks of treatment (p < 0.01 vs. placebo). Serum IGFBP-4 was increased by 25% after 2 weeks of treatment (p < 0.001 vs. placebo) but no significant change from baseline was observed after 8 weeks of treatment. Plasma interleukin-6 was not significantly changed by active treatment. In conclusion, short-term treatment of healthy obese male volunteers with the GH secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of both bone resorption and formation. Large increases in serum levels of IGF-1 and IGFBP-5 and a transient increase in serum IGFBP-4 were found. Future long-term studies are needed to investigate if prolonged treatment with MK-677 increases bone mass.

PMID:

9661080

DOI:

10.1359/jbmr.1998.13.7.1158
[Indexed for MEDLINE]
Free full text

J Bone Miner Res. 1999 Jul;14(7):1182-8.
Oral administration of the growth hormone secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of bone turnover in healthy and functionally impaired elderly adults. The MK-677 Study Group.
Murphy MG1, Bach MA, Plotkin D, Bolognese J, Ng J, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Gertz BJ.
Author information

Abstract
Growth hormone (GH) stimulates osteoblasts in vitro and increases bone turnover and stimulates osteoblast activity when given to elderly subjects. Probably a major effect of GH on bone is mediated through stimulation of either circulating or locally produced insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). We determined the effect of chronic administration of the GH secretagogue, MK-677, on serum IGF-I and markers of bone turnover in 187 elderly adults (65 years or older) enrolled in three randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical studies lasting 2-9 weeks. Urine was collected for determination of N-telopeptide cross-links (NTXs), a marker of bone resorption, and blood was collected for determination of serum osteocalcin and bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSAP), as bone formation markers, and serum IGF-I levels pre- and post-treatment. Dose response data were initially obtained in healthy elderly subjects who received oral doses of 10 mg or 25 mg of MK-677 or placebo for 2 weeks (n = 10-12/group). Treatment with 10 mg and 25 mg of MK-677 for 2 weeks increased mean urine NTXs 10% and 17%, respectively (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). Additionally, 50 healthy elderly subjects received either placebo (n = 20) for 4 weeks or 25 mg of MK-677 (n = 30) daily for 2 weeks followed by 50 mg daily for 2 weeks. MK-677 increased mean serum osteocalcin by 8% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). In both studies, MK-677 increased serum IGF-I levels significantly (55-94%). Subsequently, the biological effects of MK-677 were studied in 105 elderly subjects who met objective criteria for functional impairment. Subjects were randomized to receive oral doses of placebo for 9 weeks or either 5, 10, or 25 mg of MK-677 daily for an initial 2 weeks followed by 25 mg of MK-677 daily for the next 7 weeks(n = 63 on MK-677 and n = 28 on placebo completed 9 weeks of therapy). Treatment with MK-677 (all MK-677 groups combined) for 9 weeks increased mean serum osteocalcin by 29.4% and BSAP by 10.4% (p < 0.001 vs. placebo) and mean urinary NTX excretion by 22.6% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). The change from baseline serum osteocalcin correlated with the change from baseline serum IGF-I in the MK-677 group (r = 0.37; p < 0.01). In conclusion, once daily dosing with MK-677, an orally active GH secretagogue, stimulates bone turnover in elderly subjects based on elevations in biochemical markers of bone resorption and formation.

mands
 
Last edited:

Scirilo

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
I'm following this thread because I want to be well informed on IGF1 before I make any dumb mistake if I'm to take it.
 

Matty19D

Member
I'm following this thread because I want to be well informed on IGF1 before I make any dumb mistake if I'm to take it.

Stick with it bro, mands logs are very informative and you're sure to learn a lot. Just gotta dodge the bs that starts flying around lol
 

Roco Bama

Member
You are a little high at 80%. I would say 40% is the number you are looking for. At least in the studies I've seen at 25mg.

Two-month treatment of obese subjects with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 increases GH secretion, fat-free mass, and energy expenditure.
Svensson J1, Lönn L, Jansson JO, Murphy G, Wyss D, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Polvino W, Gertz B, Boseaus I, Sjöström L, Bengtsson BA.
Author information

Abstract
Obesity is associated with blunted GH secretion, unfavorable body composition, and increased cardiovascular mortality. The objective of this study was to investigate the effects of oral treatment with the GH secretagogue MK-677 on GH secretion and body composition in otherwise healthy obese males. The study was randomized, double blind, parallel, and placebo controlled. Twenty-four obese males, aged 18-50 yr, with body mass indexes greater than 30 kg/m2 and waist/hip ratios greater than 0.95, were treated with MK-677 25 mg (n = 12) or placebo (n = 12) daily for 8 weeks. Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) increased approximately 40% with MK-677 treatment (P < 0.001 vs. placebo). Serum IGF-binding protein-3 was also significantly increased (P < or = 0.001 vs. placebo). GH and PRL (peak and area under the curve values) were significantly increased after the initial dose of MK-677. Significant increases, with the exception of peak PRL, persisted at 2 and 8 weeks of treatment. The increases in GH and PRL after the initial dose were significantly greater than the increase seen after multiple doses. Serum and urinary concentrations of cortisol were not increased at 2 and 8 weeks (P = NS, vs. placebo). Fat-free mass increased significantly in the MK-677 treatment group when determined with dual energy x-ray absorptiometry (P < 0.01) or using a four-compartment model (P < 0.05). Total and visceral fat were not significantly changed with active therapy. The basal metabolic rate was significantly increased at 2 weeks of MK-677 treatment (P = 0.01) but not at 8 weeks (P = 0.1). Fasting concentrations of glucose and insulin were unchanged, whereas an oral glucose tolerance test showed impairment of glucose homeostasis at 2 and 8 weeks. We conclude that 2-month treatment with MK-677 in healthy obese males caused a sustained increase in serum levels of GH, IGF-I, and IGF-binding protein-3. The effects on cortisol secretion were transient. Changes in body composition and energy expenditure were of an anabolic nature, with a sustained increase in fat-free mass and a transient increase in basal metabolic rate. Further studies are needed to evaluate whether a higher dose of MK-677 or a more prolonged treatment period can promote a reduction in body fat.

PMID:

9467542

DOI:

10.1210/jcem.83.2.4539
Treatment with the oral growth hormone secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of bone formation and bone resorption in obese young males.
Svensson J1, Ohlsson C, Jansson JO, Murphy G, Wyss D, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Polvino W, Gertz B, Baylink D, Mohan S, Bengtsson BA.
Author information

Abstract
The effect of 2 months of treatment with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 on markers of bone metabolism was determined in healthy obese male subjects. This was a randomized, double-blind, parallel, placebo-controlled study. Twenty-four healthy obese males, 19-49 years of age, with body mass index > 30 kg/m2 were treated with MK-677 (25 mg/day; n = 12) or placebo (n = 12) for 8 weeks. MK-677 increased markers of bone formation; a 23% increase in the carboxy-terminal propeptide of type I procollagen levels and a 28% increase in procollagen III peptide levels were seen with as little as 2 weeks of MK-677 treatment (p < 0.01 and p = 0.001 vs. placebo, respectively) while a 15% increase in serum levels of osteocalcin was not detected until 8 weeks of treatment (p < 0.01 vs. placebo). Markers of bone resorption were induced within 2 weeks of treatment with MK-677; serum levels of the carboxy-terminal cross-linked telopeptide of type I collagen were increased 26% at 8 weeks (p = 0.001 vs. placebo), and urine hydroxyproline/creatinine and calcium/creatinine ratios at 8 weeks were increased by 23% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo) and 46% (p < 0.05 vs placebo), respectively, MK-677 increased serum insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 (IGFBP-5) by 43-44% after 2-8 weeks of treatment (p < 0.01 vs. placebo). Serum IGFBP-4 was increased by 25% after 2 weeks of treatment (p < 0.001 vs. placebo) but no significant change from baseline was observed after 8 weeks of treatment. Plasma interleukin-6 was not significantly changed by active treatment. In conclusion, short-term treatment of healthy obese male volunteers with the GH secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of both bone resorption and formation. Large increases in serum levels of IGF-1 and IGFBP-5 and a transient increase in serum IGFBP-4 were found. Future long-term studies are needed to investigate if prolonged treatment with MK-677 increases bone mass.

PMID:

9661080

DOI:

10.1359/jbmr.1998.13.7.1158
[Indexed for MEDLINE]
Free full text

J Bone Miner Res. 1999 Jul;14(7):1182-8.
Oral administration of the growth hormone secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of bone turnover in healthy and functionally impaired elderly adults. The MK-677 Study Group.
Murphy MG1, Bach MA, Plotkin D, Bolognese J, Ng J, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Gertz BJ.
Author information

Abstract
Growth hormone (GH) stimulates osteoblasts in vitro and increases bone turnover and stimulates osteoblast activity when given to elderly subjects. Probably a major effect of GH on bone is mediated through stimulation of either circulating or locally produced insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). We determined the effect of chronic administration of the GH secretagogue, MK-677, on serum IGF-I and markers of bone turnover in 187 elderly adults (65 years or older) enrolled in three randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical studies lasting 2-9 weeks. Urine was collected for determination of N-telopeptide cross-links (NTXs), a marker of bone resorption, and blood was collected for determination of serum osteocalcin and bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSAP), as bone formation markers, and serum IGF-I levels pre- and post-treatment. Dose response data were initially obtained in healthy elderly subjects who received oral doses of 10 mg or 25 mg of MK-677 or placebo for 2 weeks (n = 10-12/group). Treatment with 10 mg and 25 mg of MK-677 for 2 weeks increased mean urine NTXs 10% and 17%, respectively (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). Additionally, 50 healthy elderly subjects received either placebo (n = 20) for 4 weeks or 25 mg of MK-677 (n = 30) daily for 2 weeks followed by 50 mg daily for 2 weeks. MK-677 increased mean serum osteocalcin by 8% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). In both studies, MK-677 increased serum IGF-I levels significantly (55-94%). Subsequently, the biological effects of MK-677 were studied in 105 elderly subjects who met objective criteria for functional impairment. Subjects were randomized to receive oral doses of placebo for 9 weeks or either 5, 10, or 25 mg of MK-677 daily for an initial 2 weeks followed by 25 mg of MK-677 daily for the next 7 weeks(n = 63 on MK-677 and n = 28 on placebo completed 9 weeks of therapy). Treatment with MK-677 (all MK-677 groups combined) for 9 weeks increased mean serum osteocalcin by 29.4% and BSAP by 10.4% (p < 0.001 vs. placebo) and mean urinary NTX excretion by 22.6% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). The change from baseline serum osteocalcin correlated with the change from baseline serum IGF-I in the MK-677 group (r = 0.37; p < 0.01). In conclusion, once daily dosing with MK-677, an orally active GH secretagogue, stimulates bone turnover in elderly subjects based on elevations in biochemical markers of bone resorption and formation.

mands
That study was done on obese people. Obesity causes blunted GH production as stated in the study. The study done on Alzheimer's patients resulted in a 72% increase and I remember from study done on healthy young adults that resulted in a 80~95% increase but the best way to know is to experiment it. some mk powder I bought from aliliba turned out 50% underdosed.
Growth hormone secretagogue MK-677: no clinical effect on AD progression in a randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI
 

mands

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
That study was done on obese people. Obesity causes blunted GH production as stated in the study. The study done on Alzheimer's patients resulted in a 72% increase and I remember from study done on healthy young adults that resulted in a 80~95% increase but the best way to know is to experiment it. some mk powder I bought from aliliba turned out 50% underdosed.
Growth hormone secretagogue MK-677: no clinical effect on AD progression in a randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI
A couple I posted were obese and yours have Alzheimer's. The third I posted was on healthy adults. The results were measured at 55% to 94% of baseline at 50mg. I'll go with 40% with 25mg so not to be disappointed as most should do as well.

I appreciate the post though.

mands
 

stevonov

Member
friend tested igf1 after 3kits batch 25 at 3.3iu day. only came up 216. last two baseline tests while on tren but no hgh were 182 and 197 he will be switching to batch 27 and hope for better results.
 

Marcus

Member
Good thread... so is it more logical to treat blacks as 12iu per vial to accurately dose? Is that everyone's general consensus?
 

Ripped

Member
friend tested igf1 after 3kits batch 25 at 3.3iu day. only came up 216. last two baseline tests while on tren but no hgh were 182 and 197 he will be switching to batch 27 and hope for better results.
Not cutting on you bro but we need to see those test for it to be credible.
 
hopefully batch 27 will be more like 19 cause 25 is bunk.
I scored a paltry 150 on blacks back in December (dosing 1/2 vial a day). My gear is the same as it was then and I'm on 1/2 vial of the grey tops - getting bloods drawn Friday to see if these are treating me better
 
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