BigAli
New Member
I'm concerned about it and that's why we use hCG during the cycle so our T levels go back to normal after the cycle.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Testing IGF-1 levels on Black Top Meditrope
- Thread starter mands
- Start date
I'm concerned about it and that's why we use hCG during the cycle so our T levels go back to normal after the cycle.
I thought hcg was to keep your nuts from going into a dormant or atrophied state while on cycle. Pct is for helping your natty levels return to normal after cycle.
I'm not sure you got what @Eman was saying though. He was saying that just like an aas cycle, we are raising our gh levels high enough with the supplementation of gh that it doesn't matter what time of days it's taken because we are 'saturated' with it and out level are much higher than that would be natty. Basically our natty pulse is like a ripple of water from a pebble in a big lake when on gh, it doesnt make a noticable difference, I think.
I also think that once off gh the recovery time is much shorter, like a month, than aas and isn't nearly as disruptive as an aas cycle.
Right... And do you only inject test base in the evening to take advantage of your bodies naturally high levels in the morning?
Wood4days
Member
I've been running the grey tops everyday 7 days a week at 2iu. I did 2.5iu for a month and my hands kept getting numb so I backed down .5iu
Wood4days
Member
Or just go ask your doctor. Just tell him you were curious and want to know the facts. Setup an appointment for a checkup and bring up the subject.
DickySmalls
Member
Unfortunately, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they know everything medical-related or are correct 100% of the time
BigAli
New Member
Australia?
Wood4days
Member
This is true. However they would be more knowledgeable than broscience.Unfortunately, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they know everything medical-related or are correct 100% of the time
ronin17
New Member
Only if its thier field of study which it isnt for 95% of them.
I believe in earlier years it was first thought that GH natural secretion was effected for about 4 hours after initial injection of exogenous GH. It's longer now.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/jcem.85.2.6377
Send to
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Feb;85(2):601-6.
Exogenous 20K growth hormone (GH) suppresses endogenous 22K GH secretion in normal men.
Hashimoto Y1, Kamioka T, Hosaka M, Mabuchi K, Mizuchi A, Shimazaki Y, Tsunoo M, Tanaka T.
Author information
Abstract
The physiological and pharmacological functions of the 20-kDa human GH (20K-hGH) isoform are unknown. We conducted a pharmacokinetic study of recombinant 20K-hGH in human subjects (Phase I clinical trial). Placebo or 20K-hGH was administered sc to normal men (20-31 yr of age, n = 6-8 per group) at 2100 h. Serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels were monitored every 30 min for 24 h by specific enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays. Serum free fatty acid, insulin-like growth factor I, insulin, and glucose levels were measured for 24 h. In the placebo group, the secretion profiles of endogenous 20K- and 22K-hGH were pulsatile and similar to each other. The proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH was fairly constant. In the 20K-hGH-treated groups, serum 20K-hGH levels increased in a dose-dependent manner over the dose range of 0.01-0.1 mg/kg. Maximum serum 20K-hGH levels were reached at 3-4 h and decreased with half-lives of 2-3 h. Marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion was observed in a time-dependent manner. Serum free fatty acid and insulin-like growth factor I levels were significantly elevated (P < 0.01) at 4, 8, and 12 h and at 8, 12, and 24 h after 20K-hGH administration, respectively. Serum insulin and glucose levels did not change significantly within 24 h. These results suggested that: 1) regulation of 20K-hGH secretion is physiologically the same as that of 22K-hGH; 2) the pharmacokinetics after sc injection of 20K-hGH are comparable with those of 22K-hGH; 3) 20K-hGH regulates hGH secretion through "GH-induced negative feedback mechanisms"; and 4) administration of 20K-hGH is expected to exert GH actions (growth-promoting activity and lipolytic activity). Monitoring of serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels may be useful in evaluating the effects of administered GH isoforms on their own release from the pituitary.
PMID:
10690862
DOI:
10.1210/jcem.85.2.6377
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
mands
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/jcem.85.2.6377
Send to
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Feb;85(2):601-6.
Exogenous 20K growth hormone (GH) suppresses endogenous 22K GH secretion in normal men.
Hashimoto Y1, Kamioka T, Hosaka M, Mabuchi K, Mizuchi A, Shimazaki Y, Tsunoo M, Tanaka T.
Author information
Abstract
The physiological and pharmacological functions of the 20-kDa human GH (20K-hGH) isoform are unknown. We conducted a pharmacokinetic study of recombinant 20K-hGH in human subjects (Phase I clinical trial). Placebo or 20K-hGH was administered sc to normal men (20-31 yr of age, n = 6-8 per group) at 2100 h. Serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels were monitored every 30 min for 24 h by specific enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays. Serum free fatty acid, insulin-like growth factor I, insulin, and glucose levels were measured for 24 h. In the placebo group, the secretion profiles of endogenous 20K- and 22K-hGH were pulsatile and similar to each other. The proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH was fairly constant. In the 20K-hGH-treated groups, serum 20K-hGH levels increased in a dose-dependent manner over the dose range of 0.01-0.1 mg/kg. Maximum serum 20K-hGH levels were reached at 3-4 h and decreased with half-lives of 2-3 h. Marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion was observed in a time-dependent manner. Serum free fatty acid and insulin-like growth factor I levels were significantly elevated (P < 0.01) at 4, 8, and 12 h and at 8, 12, and 24 h after 20K-hGH administration, respectively. Serum insulin and glucose levels did not change significantly within 24 h. These results suggested that: 1) regulation of 20K-hGH secretion is physiologically the same as that of 22K-hGH; 2) the pharmacokinetics after sc injection of 20K-hGH are comparable with those of 22K-hGH; 3) 20K-hGH regulates hGH secretion through "GH-induced negative feedback mechanisms"; and 4) administration of 20K-hGH is expected to exert GH actions (growth-promoting activity and lipolytic activity). Monitoring of serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels may be useful in evaluating the effects of administered GH isoforms on their own release from the pituitary.
PMID:
10690862
DOI:
10.1210/jcem.85.2.6377
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
mands
Kash89
Member
I was just looking at this same study/abstract, i think this one may have been the one that was pretty expensive to read the entire thing, but great article indeed
DickySmalls
Member
So for lazy fucks like myself: AM dose is the way to go?
I could be incorrectly reading the study (very plausable) but what I am gathering is natty supression could be anywhere from 4 - 24 hours depending. With that info I feel like dosing time depends on how much is being consumed daily. If you are taking a small dose maybe AM. Larger doses split AM & PM. Again, I have no clue if this is even close to correct, just my best guess
Bodybuilding (improving body composition)
A dose of 4-8 IU’s per day is an option. Most people will respond very well at a dose of 4-5 IU's per day. For maximum benefit, the addition of Testosterone should be considered (insulin, low-dose T3) For a normal cycle of 5-8 months in length, injecting once or twice a day, 7 days a week should be fine. Another option would be to run your HGH cycle everyday for the first two months to get your IGF-1 levels elevated quickly and to a level to assist you in an anabolic way, then drop back to 5 days a week or only inject Mon-Wed-Fri and take the weekends off.
Here is what a good ramp up program would look like:
- Weeks 1 - 4, Dose 4iu's per injection once each morning
- Weeks 5 - 12, Dose 6iu's per injection once each morning
- Weeks 13 - 16, Dose 4iu's per injection, TWICE per day, total of 8iu's taken per day
(Anti-aging/general health dosing would be less)
If at any point in this progression you begin to have unbearable bloating or joint pain, drop the dose by 25% and hold it at this lower dosage for a couple of weeks. If the sides subside, begin your progression back up toward your desired level. If the sides remain, lower your dose again and hold it at the lower level for two weeks before beginning the upward progression. This method will keep your hGH experience a good one and side free for the most part.
While there are studies that suggest that the suppression from exogenous hGH is short lived, there are no large-scale studies to indicate safety of everyday injections in long-term use. There are studies by anti-aging groups demonstrating that a day or two off per week is adequate to protect the pituitary and its triggers over long cycles. If your use of hGH becomes more a lifestyle than a single cycle, I would consider running it 5 on/2 off, or 6 on/ 1 off until such time there is reliable data demonstrating long-term safety sans any degradation of your own output or the triggers initiating that output.
At 4-5IUs I stay with early A.M. dosing.....higher IU dose I would split
Timing of dosing depends on ones goals (GHD/anti-aging, etc)
Utilizing both Endo/Exo GH or mimmicking natural GH pulse/release (nightly dose)
Again, this is just my understanding of it....(HRT clinic)
Last edited:
Thank you PX.
Hi. I would love to read that. May I ask you for that link, please?If you want double blind clinical study about natural GH surpression.....I'm not that guy
If you want a link to HGH Medical Clinic discussing GH for (a)GHD or GH in bodybuilding, dosing and timing strategies (natural GH pulse) along with insulin use, managing HGH sides, etc
I'd be happy to send you the link Via PM
I'm trying to educate myself on this subject and I feel I got a long way to go. Thank you.
DickySmalls
Member
AM dosing has been shit. Feels like trying to sleep in Mosul with having to wake up every 30 minutes for no reason. Now doing 3 IU AM, 3 IU midday, 4 IU night.
I will get tests next week guys and gals. I have had a busy schedule.
mands
mands
Similar threads
