THE new "Generic" HGH Assay PAGE! AAA testing

[Sampei]

Fewwwwww I'm not rich, but sure as hell I'm quite a good driver

Funny thing is, all the people in this thread arguing, name calling and telling one another to suck a cock, would probably get along in a face to face discussion. At least i believe it would make for a more civil environment in which we might just be friends, sept for the rich guy. Prolly beat him up and take his car just to see the look on his face[emoji4]

 

[muscle96ss]

and now you're just deflecting from the real issue ie commenting on CBS's post

First of all, its not like anybody has answered any of my posts. For example, I have yet to get an answer to to the question I have posted numerous times which is: Why do USP standards(which is what pharm companies are required to adhere to for quality control) not include AAA as one the tests if in fact it is the gold standard?

Secondly, it has been a busy day today and I just skimmed over the posts earlier not paying too much attention because it was the same old bullshit and I didn't really have time to get involved. Sorry but my real life comes first; this stuff is just a hobby and will never take precedence over my family or my real responsibilities. If you will direct me to what post you are referring to I will take a look and answer it for you.

 

[Mr.B66]

Fewwwwww I'm not rich, but sure as hell I'm quite a good driver

In that case sir, the car is yours[emoji41]

 

[Dr JIM]

But see thats just it. Why have a testing program if you can't conduct yourself properly to have a civil discussion? This is a community and not a dictatorship and I would be willing to bet that Jim's views don't even represent the majority over here.

Oh I'm sure PM doesnt censor or ostracize those who don't agree
or post unwanted data and you talk about a dictatorship on Meso, while PM is the model forum for ensuring compliance with the status quo.

It's obvious YOU are a major part
of all that's wrong with censored forums MH.

You're a pathetic self righteous hypocrite!

 

[Dr JIM]

Why do USP standards(which is what pharm companies are required to adhere to for quality control) not include AAA as one the tests if in fact it is the gold standard?

.

IF what you're asking is indeed the case, that's a GREAT question to ask the USP MH, but MANDS already listed several experts whom have stated an AAA is the Gold Standard, which is why it's also used to develop USP rHGH standards!

SO WHATS THE POINT bc debating the sensitivity or specificity of any assay is irrelevant if the appropriate standards are not being used!

But that's a FACT you will never admit to bc you know requisite standards are NOT being used for the assays you constantly refer to, which includes Janes HPLCS, and as such should be deemed bogus until the data I've requested is posted ON MESO!

 

[muscle96ss]

Oh I'm sure PM doesnt censor or ostracize those who don't agree
or post unwanted data and you talk about a dictatorship on Meso, while PM is the model forum for ensuring compliance with the status quo.

It's obvious YOU are a major part
of all that's wrong with censored forums MH.

You're a pathetic self righteous hypocrite!

I have never censored anybody. You still don't get it. I am not PM, I am just a respected member; thats it!!! I don't tell them what to censor and I get warnings and posts deleted just like everybody else when I post something that crosses the line. I don't have any part in the decision process on where that line is; none, not even the slightest bit. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

By your standards, since you live in the US and we have a fucked up, corrupt government; you are obviously part of the problem. How can you live in a country where the people running it are bunch of greedy bastards that only care about themselves? You must be a terrible person. And to add to that, our healthcare system is completely broken. Doctors treat symptoms with prescriptions, not causes. Considering you are a doctor, you are part of the problem and it is your fault that people are mistreated and dying daily due to an incompetent healthcare system. How do you sleep at night when you are obviously responsible for all this.

 

[muscle96ss]

such should be deemed bogus until the data I've requested is posted ON MESO!

Are you really that fucking stupid???

 

[Dr JIM]

1) I have never censored anybody. You still don't get it. I am not PM, I am just a respected member; thats it!!! I don't tell them what to censor and I get warnings and posts deleted just like everybody else when I post something that crosses the line.

2) I don't have any part in the decision process on where that line is; none, not even the slightest bit. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

3) By your standards, since you live in the US and we have a fucked up, corrupt government; you are obviously part of the problem.

4) How can you live in a country where the people running it are bunch of greedy bastards that only care about themselves?

.

1) Really! Well I am not Meso either but you have no difficulty mentioning "Jim" as being responsible some "dictatorship".

2) Neither do I but once again you seem to believe otherwise

3) Do you always react wo rhyme or reason when called to task and justify your "beliefs" in the absence of supportive data.

4) "Greedy people only thinking about themselves" really, is that projection on your behalf, or is Janeo nearby.

5) I sleep quite well knowing the data I've posted is accurate, reliable and will prove useful for Meso members, yet how do you sleep knowing the HPLCS conducted by Janeo were posted in spite of the fact the required GH standard was omitted.

6) Oh heck no, what you think I've expected ANYTHING to be posted that would expose such inept "laboratory" practices, lol!

 

[muscle96ss]

1) Really! Well I am not Meso either but you have no difficulty mentioning "Jim" as being responsible some "dictatorship".

2) Neither do I but once again you seem to believe otherwise

3) Do you always react wo rhyme or reason when called to task and justify your "beliefs" in the absence of supportive data.

4) "Greedy people only thinking about themselves" really, is that projection on your behalf, or is Janeo nearby.

5) I sleep quite well knowing the data I've posted is accurate, reliable and will prove useful for Meso members, yet how do you sleep knowing the HPLCS conducted by Janeo were posted in spite of the fact the required GH standard was omitted.

6) Oh heck no, what you think I've expected ANYTHING to be posted that would expose such inept "laboratory" practices, lol!

Jim, for the last time, the data is not mine to post publicly. When the project was undertaken, there were rules established. Big A was very clear that the information is not to be posted publicly on any board. Perhaps you should send an email to him requesting its release and I will have jano post it all publicly(yes he used a reference standard and its actually mentioned in the thread along with the graph).

Also you keep omitting the fact that in addition to Jano's HPLC's we also had immunoassays done from an accredited and licensed lab. I guess since that doesn't fit into your narrative here you will keep ignoring it and acting like it doesn't exist. In addition there have been other tests that have been performed on the greys. Funny how they all come up at 10iu. Isn't it also ironic that all your tests on the greys were damn consistent. Perhaps its coming from a sophisticated plant capable of being precise like that(hint, hint). Perhaps that plant is government regulated and is not going to produce underdosed GH despite your ignorant paranoia. But instead of trusting someone that knows much more about it than you ever will, you continue to ignore common sense and logic and create this whole false ludicrous narrative that I am trying to swindle you so I can make more money. Whats funny, is even your best friend is telling you that I have nothing to do with the sales of GH. And you can goto any board on the internet and ask them about me, I have been around a long time. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you are wrong, just like when you said that the Chinese cannot make GH and its all peptide just a couple of years ago?

 

[Dr JIM]

1) Jim, for the last time, the data is not mine to post publicly. Big A was very clear that the information is not to be posted publicly on any board.

2) I will have jano post it all publicly(yes he used a reference standard and its actually mentioned in the thread along with the graph).

3) Also you keep omitting the fact that in addition to Jano's HPLC's we also had immunoassays done from an accredited and licensed lab.

I guess since that doesn't fit into your narrative here you will keep ignoring it and acting like it doesn't exist.

4) In addition there have been other tests that have been performed on the greys. Funny how they all come up at 10iu. Isn't it also ironic that all your tests on the greys were damn consistent.

5) Perhaps its coming from a sophisticated plant capable of being precise like that(hint, hint). Perhaps that plant is government regulated and is not going to produce underdosed GH despite your ignorant paranoia.

6) But instead of trusting someone that knows much more about it than you ever will, you continue to ignore common sense and logic and create this whole false ludicrous narrative that I am trying to swindle you so I can make more money.

Whats funny, is even your best friend is telling you that I have nothing to do with the sales of GH. And you can goto any board on the internet and ask them about me, I have been around a long time. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you are wrong, just like when you said that the Chinese cannot make GH and its all peptide just a couple of years ago

?

1) data that can't be disclosed to
the public now who's a part of some "dictatorship"


2) I've heard that before

3) as I've stated in an earlier post that "you obviously ignored" ELISA have very narrow quantitative sensitivity ranges and I suspect that's ONE REASON there are rarely if ever
(I could find NONE) used for analytical GH research.

It's for this reason someone needs to cite the specific ELISA used so I can cross reference it to ensure the manufacturers application guidelines were complied with, which I very much DOUBT!

LC/MS or HPLC require the use of a legitimate standard.IF Janeo used one, first why did he ask for instructions on how to obtain them, and second they are not listed on any of HIS HPLCS as is customary lab practice.

4) Really, darn I forgot to tell you Ive had five other labs that conducted tests on these samples and they ALL arrived at results similar to mine. EVIDENCE ABSENT THE DATA IS NOT EVIDENCE, but rather talk of "trust me" at best.

5) See that's the difference bt you and me I DONT make such assertions wo the evidence to support it, regardless of where it "came from". Yet I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "data" you keep referring to was conducted by the manufacturing plant itself.

Have you ever heard of the "cat guarding the henhouse" colloquialism!

6) I'd suggest you look at all the middlemen to ascertain where all the presupposed "missing GH" is, bc doing so might enable you to use "logic and common sense rather than continue with your paranoid narrative".

The fact is our assays are as accurate as you'll ever see and "that's coming from someone that knows much more about analytical GH testing" than you ever will.

7) Show me a post where I said the Chinese couldn't make legit GH, as I'm fully aware one of the first manufacturers was Chinese.

What I have said holds true to this day. no "UGL" can manufacture GH!

8) Continue on your path of being wrong about these assays bc it's obvious it's something you'll never accept as being legit
SINCE YOUR NOT IN CHARGE or YOURE JUST AN IGNORANT FOOL WHO CANT UNDERSTAND THE TESTING ITSELF. And "your experience on BB forums" won't change that fact.

 

[Dr JIM]

So the fact is the primary reason you take objection to these assays accuracy is;

Other labs (some certified some not), using different methodologies (some of questionable utility for GH analysis), on a different date, from a different batch, obtained more desirable, (higher) quantitative results than our lab which specializes in protein analysis, with 15 years of experience, and has three levels of certification, and utilizes THREE separate forms of analytical checks and balances to ensure their results are accurate, to name a few qualifications.

Yep no wonder you don't get it!

 

[rpbb]

So the fact is the primary reason you take objection to these assays accuracy is;

Other labs (some certified some not), using different methodologies (some of questionable utility for GH analysis), on a different date, from a different batch, obtained more desirable, (higher) quantitative results than our lab which specializes in protein analysis, with 15 years of experience, and has three levels of certification, and utilizes THREE separate forms of analytical checks and balances to ensure their results are accurate, to name a few qualifications.

Yep no wonder you don't get it!

Muscle and janos are great at asking questions, but not responding to answers. They need to answer the question as to why the greytops are underdosed

 

[heady muscle]

I have never censored anybody. You still don't get it. I am not PM, I am just a respected member; thats it!!! I don't tell them what to censor and I get warnings and posts deleted just like everybody else when I post something that crosses the line. I don't have any part in the decision process on where that line is; none, not even the slightest bit. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

By your standards, since you live in the US and we have a fucked up, corrupt government; you are obviously part of the problem. How can you live in a country where the people running it are bunch of greedy bastards that only care about themselves? You must be a terrible person. And to add to that, our healthcare system is completely broken. Doctors treat symptoms with prescriptions, not causes. Considering you are a doctor, you are part of the problem and it is your fault that people are mistreated and dying daily due to an incompetent healthcare system. How do you sleep at night when you are obviously responsible for all this.

Muscle96,
I mean this respectively, but you come off as a righteous person in your post, which is fine, but don't you see a contradiction in your stance since you frequent a site that censors information in support of commerce?

 

[rpbb]

I have never censored anybody. You still don't get it. I am not PM, I am just a respected member; thats it!!! I don't tell them what to censor and I get warnings and posts deleted just like everybody else when I post something that crosses the line. I don't have any part in the decision process on where that line is; none, not even the slightest bit. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

By your standards, since you live in the US and we have a fucked up, corrupt government; you are obviously part of the problem. How can you live in a country where the people running it are bunch of greedy bastards that only care about themselves? You must be a terrible person. And to add to that, our healthcare system is completely broken. Doctors treat symptoms with prescriptions, not causes. Considering you are a doctor, you are part of the problem and it is your fault that people are mistreated and dying daily due to an incompetent healthcare system. How do you sleep at night when you are obviously responsible for all this.

you haven't replied to CBS's post about the history of amino assay tests, and why the greytops are underdosed

 

[DickySmalls]

Muscle and janos are great at asking questions, but not responding to answers. They need to answer the question as to why the greytops are underdosed

Easy - because less than 3.33mg of HGH was put into the vial. Can I have my honorary PhD now?

 

[rpbb]

Re amino-acid analysis [AAA]:


An NIH study citing an AAA for GH quantification AND HPLC as a secondary assay for the detection of PEP byproducts.

[The Somatropin Reference Standard (Control 951) of the National Institute of Health Sciences].
Yomota C, et al. Eisei Shikenjo Hokoku. 1996.
Show full citation
Abstract
Somatropin material was examined for preparation of the "Somatropin Reference Standard". The candidate material was evaluated by a domestic collaborative study in which eight laboratories participated. The protein content was determined to be 4.5 mg/Vial based on amino acid analysis. Because of the possibility of application as a chemical reference standard for assay by the HPLC method, a physico-chemical evaluation of the candidate material was also performed. By SE-HPLC, the content of polymer, dimer were determined to be 0.54%, 0.98%, respectively. By RP-HPLC, the early peak area ascribed to desamido and sulfoxide form was 1.07% of the total peak area. And for informational data, the potency of the candidate material, being estimated by three different biological methods, weight gain assay, tibia test and adiposeconversion assay is 14.8 IU/vial. Based on the above results, the candidate was authorized as the Somatropin Reference Standard of the National Institute of Health Sciences.



Note the standard used to develop the WHO GH criteria was an AAA.

The First International Standard for Somatropin: report of an international collaborative study.
Bristow AF, et al. Growth Regul. 1995.
Show full citation
Abstract
Following an earlier decision to move away from the in vivo bioassay for determination of the potency of therapeutic somatropin (recombinant DNA human growth hormone), 18 laboratories in 12 countries participated in an international collaborative study designed to establish an international standard for somatropin, calibrated both by bioassay and by physicochemical assays of somatropin content. The mean in vivo biological potency of preparation studied, coded 88/624, was 6.75 IU/ampoule (fiducial limits 6.30-7.23). Determination of the protein content by quantitative amino-acid analysis yielded a mean estimate of 1.98 mg protein per ampoule. (Relative standard deviation = 2.88%). Data from the study also yielded mean values of 97.2% +/- 0.8% for the monomer content of the preparation, and 8.18 (RSD = 4.00%) for A1% at 276 nm. At its 45th meeting, in October 1994, the ECBS of WHO formally established the preparation 88/624 as the First International Standard for Somatropin, with a defined content of 2.0 mg protein per ampoule, and a defined specific activity of 3.0 International Units per milligram.



This study assigned the currently used mg to IU ratio for rHGH.

Although SE/HPLC was the assay
used, quantification once again relied on the FIRST IRS which was based
on a AAA.

The Second International Standard for somatropin (recombinant DNA-derived human growth hormone): preparation and calibration in an international collaborative study.
Bristow AF, et al. Biologicals. 2001.
Show full citation
Abstract
A preparation of somatropin (recombinant DNA-derived human growth hormone) was prepared as lyophilised ampoules according to WHO procedures for international biological standards. The candidate preparation (98/574) was evaluated in an international collaborative study (16 laboratories, nine countries), with the following aims: (i) to determine the suitability of the preparation to serve as the International Standard for somatropin by studying its performance in the current range of physico-chemical and biological assay methods employed for somatropin; (ii) to assign a content in terms of the existing (first) International Standard for somatropin, using the currently recognised assay procedure (Size Exclusion High Performance Liquid Chromatography, SE HPLC); (iii) to confirm the specific biological activity of the candidate preparation; (iv) to confirm the stability of the candidate preparation. On the basis of the collaborative study WHO agreed that: the preparation in ampoules coded 98/574 is suitable to serve as the next WHO International Standard for somatropin; the preparation in ampoules coded 98/574 should be established as the second International Standard for somatropin, with a defined ampoule content of 1.95 mg total somatropin plus somatropin-related proteins per ampoule; the specific activity of the preparation should be defined as 3.0 IU/mg somatropin.

here ya go muscle

 

[jJjburton]

Time to make a "Brand new Generic" HGH assay page

 

[heady muscle]

Time to make a "Brand new Generic" HGH assay page

I don't think anyone can handle another one! lol

 

[Kakarot]

I don't think anyone can handle another one! lol

I hope that's not true and @mands and @Dr JIM continue this project.

 

[janoshik]

3) as I've stated in an earlier post that "you obviously ignored" ELISA have very narrow quantitative sensitivity ranges and I suspect that's ONE REASON there are rarely if ever
(I could find NONE) used for analytical GH research.

1x - 3000x is not really a narrow quantitative sensitivity in my book.

LC/MS or HPLC require the use of a legitimate standard.IF Janeo used one, first why did he ask for instructions on how to obtain them

Oh, you did not manage to catch the irony in that post?

Truly a lost case.

4) Really, darn I forgot to tell you Ive had five other labs that conducted tests on these samples and they ALL arrived at results similar to mine. EVIDENCE ABSENT THE DATA IS NOT EVIDENCE, but rather talk of "trust me" at best.

Except there is evidence, it's just you and the public not having it.

Mr. M96ss and Mr. Buck put me through too big of a scrutiny for me to be able to fake anything.

Mr. RP was opposed to using my services at all.

I had to provide a lot of evidence to them, but I will not be providing it to everyone, as I will not be risking my security to be compromised.

3) as I've stated in an earlier post that "you obviously ignored" ELISA have very narrow quantitative sensitivity ranges and I suspect that's ONE REASON there are rarely if ever
(I could find NONE) used for analytical GH research.

1x - 3000x is not really a narrow quantitative sensitivity in my book.

5) See that's the difference bt you and me I DONT make such assertions wo the evidence to support it

Oh, now you are just trying to make me laught!

The fact is our assays are as accurate as you'll ever see and "that's coming from someone that knows much more about analytical GH testing" than you ever will.

Yeah yeah, you've proved it with your knowledge, evidence and factual remarks over and over again... Oh wait.




Also, did I miss anything else?