the real reason for iraqi occupation

ren

New Member
something crossed my mind while i was at the gym before...

its pretty obvious that we, the american public was lied to about the real reason we are actually in iraq in the first place..and yes it was a smack in the face to learn that the whole WMD thing was bullshit but has anyone thought that maybe the real reason we are occupying iraq is to gain a foothold in the middle east in preparation for the next 9/11?..it seems to me that this might not be such a bad strategy ...kinda just making our presence known in the middle east....basically just letting the terrorists know 'if you fuck with us on our own soil again...we're right next door now and we will fucking eradicate your entire race in a matter of seconds after any sort of attack on our homeland"

..maybe the ends do actually justify the means in this case

ren
 
what really scares the shit out of me is that the next 9/11 is most likely going to be a wave of suicide bombing right here at home...an entire day of terror across the country...its very odd that it hasnt happened yet..its a lot easier for a guy to walk into a mall with a bomb strapped to him than to coordinate a bunch of planes to fly into buildings in the same day

ren
 
it amazes me how soon we, as a country, forget things. think back to the first gulf war. after that, saddam used WMDs against his own people...the kurds. so yes, he did have them.

thinking back again...in the last few years bill clinton, al gore, john kerry and some other "prominent" democrats have all said on tape/film that saddam has WMDs and needs to be stopped. obviously not in those exact words, but if your interested in some forgotten facts do a search and you'll see for yourself. now we have the same people clinton, gore et al saying that there arent any WMDs and there never have been. so they're talking out of there ass one way or another. and as far as saddam never having them, refer to my first paragraph and history.

have a nice day
 
joe shmoe said:
it amazes me how soon we, as a country, forget things. think back to the first gulf war. after that, saddam used WMDs against his own people...the kurds. so yes, he did have them.

thinking back again...in the last few years bill clinton, al gore, john kerry and some other "prominent" democrats have all said on tape/film that saddam has WMDs and needs to be stopped. obviously not in those exact words, but if your interested in some forgotten facts do a search and you'll see for yourself. now we have the same people clinton, gore et al saying that there arent any WMDs and there never have been. so they're talking out of there ass one way or another. and as far as saddam never having them, refer to my first paragraph and history.

have a nice day

i never said he didnt have them...i said thats definitely not the reason we are over there

ren
 
while i personally believe that oil might have been a contributing factor...i do honestly believe that we went in there for other reasons:

1) WMDs
2) he sponsored terrorists/terrorism
3) payback for 9/11

and possibly

4) finish what poppa bush started

now i am not that gullable to think that oil had NOTHING to do with it. but i dont believe all these NY liberals who keep yelling "no blood for oil" bullshit...that we went there for their oil. we've been there over a year now. if it was for oil, we could have drained them dry by now and been paying $.79 per gallon of gas :).

as far as having a foothold in that region for the next "9/11"...possible. but we already have afghanistan and israel. sauidi arabi had been good to us in the first gulf war.

have a nice day
 
well, thanks for the invite ren. yea, saddam did have WMD's once, they were able to have them because the USA allowed them to, since iraq and the USA shared the same enemy at the time(IRAN), this obviously was not the reason for the war as they didnt have them anymore, and "might have them" is not a good enough reason for war. your point of making a presence over there could be true, but i think the US made their point well in afhanistan, i think the iraq war only made new enemies. the war against terrorism is on a diffrent front because you wont always be fighting a country. many people look at libyas cooperation with weapons inspectors as a sucess because he was afraid after the iraq war, not true, gadafi went to the US for help because al queda was planning on a coup to take over his country, same with masharraf of pakistan, al queda wqants him out of there not only because he helped us in afghanistan but with control over a nuclear power country like pakistan means bad news for us.
 
joe shmoe said:
while i personally believe that oil might have been a contributing factor...i do honestly believe that we went in there for other reasons:

1) WMDs
2) he sponsored terrorists/terrorism
3) payback for 9/11

and possibly

4) finish what poppa bush started

now i am not that gullable to think that oil had NOTHING to do with it. but i dont believe all these NY liberals who keep yelling "no blood for oil" bullshit...that we went there for their oil. we've been there over a year now. if it was for oil, we could have drained them dry by now and been paying $.79 per gallon of gas :).

as far as having a foothold in that region for the next "9/11"...possible. but we already have afghanistan and israel. sauidi arabi had been good to us in the first gulf war.

have a nice day[/QUOTE

we cant trust saudi arabia for shit
israel is already a warzone and probably not big enough for us to stage a grandiose type of war (which bush may already have in mind)
afghanistan is too far east..iraq is between iran and syria both of whom we dont exactly have good relations..hell syria even admits to harboring terrorists and having WMD

now obviously these are just assumptions ..but i cant think of a better reason for us to be there..and i think everyone at this point can agree that oil had something to do with it

ren
 
How about this. we all join hands and sing kum ba ya or whatever the fucking name is and hope it all just goes away, then when they walk across our unprotected borders with some suitcase nukes and kill a few million people then maybe it will be ok to fight back then. God fucking help us...........11
 
we cant trust saudi arabia for shit

but they did allow us access during the first gulf war

israel is already a warzone and probably not big enough for us to stage a grandiose type of war (which bush may already have in mind)

considering the aircraft and bombs we have, do we really need that much space? true, it is a war zone though.

hell syria even admits to harboring terrorists and having WMD

ok, playing devils advocate here....knowing this, i'm curious how many bleeding heart liberals will be shouting the same thing of "he has no wmd's" if we decide to go into syria. BTW...i'm not referring to you in the "bleeding heart" quote.

'if you fuck with us on our own soil again...we're right next door now and we will fucking eradicate your entire race in a matter of seconds after any sort of attack on our homeland"



..maybe the ends do actually justify the means in this case


now you're talking brother!!

I actaully think your #4 was most likely, saddam tried to assasinate daddy and jr. wants his payback.


hell, i'd want to kill the fucker who tried killing my daddy too :).

have a nice day
 
joe shmoe said:
we cant trust saudi arabia for shit

but they did allow us access during the first gulf war
And 19 of 20 hijackers were Saudis.

Lybia announced today that they are denouncing the terrorist attacks from other Middle Eastern nations and has asked that those nations destroy their WMDs. This after Libya agreed (on their own) to disarm.
 
Bob Smith said:
And 19 of 20 hijackers were Saudis.

Lybia announced today that they are denouncing the terrorist attacks from other Middle Eastern nations and has asked that those nations destroy their WMDs. This after Libya agreed (on their own) to disarm.

yea i heard that too...maybe there is some hope

ren
 
Rawrrr, that one was of the dumbest posts Ive read all month.

Did you also know that John Kerry's middle name is Forbes, as in the billionaire Forbes family?
 
Rawrrrrr said:
lol did you know the bush family originates out of conneticut. lol they are not texans lol they used the accent and said they was from texas for the majority of votes that come from stupid hicks that want a good ole boy image in the oval office.it's simple i mean think about it the family attended yale .did you know they are part of the skull and bones society. did you know they have very close ties with the rockafeller's. lol it's apparent that we are all beiing lied to... i mean you wanna tell me all those planes off course wasn't known immediately. i mean even better my best friends dad worked in the wtc. all he said was do you expect me to believe a 2 buildings able to hold 60,000+ plus people, hit almost half way and 2/3rds the way up only killed 3k..???? you have got to be a idiot to think that anyone in the floors above made it out.and even better does this mean the buildings where over half empty?? or are we being lied to about body counts. i mean i have talked with serveral that worked there.. and none of them believe the bod count was only 3k.... i am sorry but i am not gullable enuff to believe these lies told to us by the powers we all trust blindly...research this .. gather enough information and eventually a picture will start to form...thats my advice form your own opinions i know i have....i love this country just not it's government and this is aout oil a simple diversion and osmam is nothing more than a scapegoat=-/


the place i work probably holds about 400 people....doesnt mean 400 people work there or are even inside there at 8:57 am

ren
 
This is long but wll give u a background on why we picked Iraq

The neo conservatives rumsfeld, bush, wolfowits perl
all had this plan in 92...clinton was for inspections and containment as well s sanctions....Ritter and Blix said over and over that the programs were dimantled.....there was no iminent threat.....also there has never been any link to saddam and al queda.....if u read the exerpts from the NSS document it was all about premtion and nation building.

Twenty months into his presidency, George W. Bush releases his administration's National Security Strategy (NSS). It is the first time the various elements of the Bush Doctrine have been formally articulated in one place. The 33-page document presents a bold and comprehensive reformulation of U.S. foreign policy. It outlines a new and muscular American posture in the world -- a posture that will rely on preemption to deal with rogue states and terrorists harboring weapons of mass destruction. It states that America will exploit its military and economic power to encourage "free and open societies." It states for the first time that the U.S. will never allow its military supremacy to be challenged as it was during the Cold War. And the NSS insists that when America's vital interests are at stake, it will act alone, if necessary.

Policy analysts note that there are many elements in the 2002 NSS document which bear a strong resemblance to recommendations presented in Paul Wolfowitz's controversial Defense Planning Guidance draft written in 1992 under thePowell's view is championed by Brent Scowcroft, former National Security Adviser in the Bush I administration, who publishes an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal on Aug. 15 in which he argues that Bush is moving too quickly on Iraq, and advocates pressing for the return of U.N. inspectors.

"Don't Attack Saddam"
By Brent Scowcroft
Wall Street Journal
August 15, 2002


Our nation is presently engaged in a debate about whether to launch a war against Iraq. Leaks of various strategies for an attack on Iraq appear with regularity. The Bush administration vows regime change, but states that no decision has been made whether, much less when, to launch an invasion.

It is beyond dispute that Saddam Hussein is a menace. He terrorizes and brutalizes his own people. He has launched war on two of his neighbors. He devotes enormous effort to rebuilding his military forces and equipping them with weapons of mass destruction. We will all be better off when he is gone.

That said, we need to think through this issue very carefully. We need to analyze the relationship between Iraq and our other pressing priorities -- notably the war on terrorism -- as well as the best strategy and tactics available were we to move to change the regime in Baghdad.

Saddam's strategic objective appears to be to dominate the Persian Gulf, to control oil from the region, or both.

That clearly poses a real threat to key U.S. interests. But there is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed Saddam's goals have little in common with the terrorists who threaten us, and there is little incentive for him to make common cause with them.

He is unlikely to risk his investment in weapons of mass destruction, much less his country, by handing such weapons to terrorists who would use them for their own purposes and leave Baghdad as the return address. Threatening to use these weapons for blackmail -- much less their actual use -- would open him and his entire regime to a devastating response by the U.S. While Saddam is thoroughly evil, he is above all a power-hungry survivor.

Saddam is a familiar dictatorial aggressor, with traditional goals for his aggression. There is little evidence to indicate that the United States itself is an object of his aggression. Rather, Saddam's problem with the U.S. appears to be that we stand in the way of his ambitions. He seeks weapons of mass destruction not to arm terrorists, but to deter us from intervening to block his aggressive designs.

Given Saddam's aggressive regional ambitions, as well as his ruthlessness and unpredictability, it may at some point be wise to remove him from power. Whether and when that point should come ought to depend on overall U.S. national security priorities. Our pre-eminent security priority -- underscored repeatedly by the president -- is the war on terrorism. An attack on Iraq at this time would seriously jeopardize, if not destroy, the global counterterrorist campaign we have undertaken.
The United States could certainly defeat the Iraqi military and destroy Saddam's regime. But it would not be a cakewalk. On the contrary, it undoubtedly would be very expensive -- with serious consequences for the U.S. and global economy -- and could as well be bloody. In fact, Saddam would be likely to conclude he had nothing left to lose, leading him to unleash whatever weapons of mass destruction he possesses.

Israel would have to expect to be the first casualty, as in 1991 when Saddam sought to bring Israel into the Gulf conflict. This time, using weapons of mass destruction, he might succeed, provoking Israel to respond, perhaps with nuclear weapons, unleashing an Armageddon in the Middle East. Finally, if we are to achieve our strategic objectives in Iraq, a military campaign very likely would have to be followed by a large-scale, long-term military occupation.

But the central point is that any campaign against Iraq, whatever the strategy, cost and risks, is certain to divert us for some indefinite period from our war on terrorism. Worse, there is a virtual consensus in the world against an attack on Iraq at this time. So long as that sentiment persists, it would require the U.S. to pursue a virtual go-it-alone strategy against Iraq, making any military operations correspondingly more difficult and expensive. The most serious cost, however, would be to the war on terrorism. Ignoring that clear sentiment would result in a serious degradation in international cooperation with us against terrorism. And make no mistake, we simply cannot win that war without enthusiastic international cooperation, especially on intelligence.
Possibly the most dire consequences would be the effect in the region. The shared view in the region is that Iraq is principally an obsession of the U.S. The obsession of the region, however, is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If we were seen to be turning our backs on that bitter conflict -- which the region, rightly or wrongly, perceives to be clearly within our power to resolve -- in order to go after Iraq, there would be an explosion of outrage against us. We would be seen as ignoring a key interest of the Muslim world in order to satisfy what is seen to be a narrow American interest.

Even without Israeli involvement, the results could well destabilize Arab regimes in the region, ironically facilitating one of Saddam's strategic objectives. At a minimum, it would stifle any cooperation on terrorism, and could even swell the ranks of the terrorists. Conversely, the more progress we make in the war on terrorism, and the more we are seen to be committed to resolving the Israel-Palestinian issue, the greater will be the international support for going after Saddam.
If we are truly serious about the war on terrorism, it must remain our top priority. However, should Saddam Hussein be found to be clearly implicated in the events of Sept. 11, that could make him a key counterterrorist target, rather than a competing priority, and significantly shift world opinion toward support for regime change.

In any event, we should be pressing the United Nations Security Council to insist on an effective no-notice inspection regime for Iraq -- any time, anywhere, no permission required. On this point, senior administration officials have opined that Saddam Hussein would never agree to such an inspection regime. But if he did, inspections would serve to keep him off balance and under close observation, even if all his weapons of mass destruction capabilities were not uncovered. And if he refused, his rejection could provide the persuasive casus belli which many claim we do not now have. Compelling evidence that Saddam had acquired nuclear-weapons capability could have a similar effect.

In sum, if we will act in full awareness of the intimate interrelationship of the key issues in the region, keeping counterterrorism as our foremost priority, there is much potential for success across the entire range of our security interests -- including Iraq. If we reject a comprehensive perspective, however, we put at risk our campaign against terrorism as well as stability and security in a vital region of the world.

Copyright 2003 All Rights Reserved

The Forum for International Policy
900 17th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20006

For more information, please contact:
Christine Haynes
202-296-9365 fax 202-296-9395
Email: TheForum@FFIP.com
 
Last edited:
Windigo said:
And it's wrong for our elected officials to have this policy? Would you rather they put the UNs interest ahead of the country that they have sworn an oath to serve and protect.

Oh and for include Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheny are not neo-conservatives. However, Wolfowits and Perl are. Neo-consertative or neocon is a politically correct way used by liberal democrats to call someone a Jewish Zionist no good fucking traitor.

As for Rawrrrrr go over to anabolicboard.com you and Duh Rooster will hit it off swimmingly.

Actually the GOP invented the neo conservitive lingo. It was brought up in the reagan admin....cheney, rumfeld, wolfowitz...worked for nixon andreagen....they have been inbedded in politics for a long time!

The following consider themselves neo (New) conservatives:
Neo-Conservatism
Max Boot
Richard Haas
Douglas Feith
Project for the New American Century (PNAC)
Richard Perle
Elliott Abrams
Keith Payne
John Bolton
Ruth Wedgwood
Michael Ledeen
Donald Rumsfeld
Dick Cheney

The Heritage Foundation
James Woolsey
Paul Wolfowitz
 
hate me all you want

I love bush and I think what we are doing in iraq is a good thing

i know i will be flamed to death but everyone is entitiled to their own personal opinion right?
 
mr_meanor said:
hate me all you want

I love bush and I think what we are doing in iraq is a good thing

i know i will be flamed to death but everyone is entitiled to their own personal opinion right?

Actually I was for the war in the beginning until all the forged documents, WMD bullshit, Nuclear program....UN inspectors were flamed on hannity and o'reilly (Ritter) when they said the programs have been dismantled and inspections are still neccesary but there definately is no imminent threat.....U don't see them on the conservative talk shows anymore....Blix and Ritter....they were 100% correct.....Ritter was in charge over in Iraq for 9 years......The bush admin is still trying to tear apart his reputatation....saying he works for the KGB, Iraq is paying ect. When is the spy leak going to come to light???? Novack is a cock to put out national security at risk he knew dam well thatwilson was correct...the yellow cake from africa did not exist and the documents were forged......
 
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