[TP's TheGreyTop] [IGF-1 blood test] [May 2016]

[Wunderpus]

However, if I were to run 2-3iu, it would be first thing in the AM or right before training (assuming I didn't train 4 hours pre bed). I wouldn't want to fuck with my biggest GH pulse, ~2 hours into sleep, with a small amount of GH. I believe the exogenous GH in the AM, and natty GH at night would yield good results.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

3-4iu is FINE for protein synthesis and fat loss, as well as joint relief and anti-aging effects. For the hypertophic effects to really shine, 7iu+ is ideal, but you will still see benefit from even 2iu, IMO.

That's all I'm looking for right now. I don't think a high dose would make much sense for powerlifting purposes from what I understand of it.

However, if I were to run 2-3iu, it would be first thing in the AM or right before training (assuming I didn't train 4 hours pre bed). I wouldn't want to fuck with my biggest GH pulse, ~2 hours into sleep, with a small amount of GH. I believe the exogenous GH in the AM, and natty GH at night would yield good results.

You really think so? I thought the added recovery during sleep would be ideal, but I have been reading about morning and early afternoon doses because it's when your levels are at the lowest.

During the work week I get up at 5:55am and hit the gym after work at 4pm. On weekends I get up around 7am and hit the gym by 9:30-10am. I train on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. What do you think would be the best way to go about it?

Edit: also, what's your take on every day versus 5 on and 2 off? Would going to 3iu every day be better than 4iu 5 on and 2 off in your opinion?

 

[Wunderpus]

What time do you go to bed work days?

I would, assuming you're in bed after 9pm, pin the GH 45 minutes pre workout. On non-training days, before breakfast. I really believe your natural GH pulse from hitting the weight hard will be serious enough to complement the exogenous GH well. On the weekend training days I would do 45min pre workout.

I break my dosages up right now, I do 5iu before breakfast and 5iu pre training (assuming they are ~4 hours or more apart. If I'm AM training, I just do it all at once). But, when I run lower dosages I run it just like the above suggestion. I do not want to interfere with the natural GH pulse if I can avoid it. Assuming the GH doesn't make you lethargic, pre workout IMO is best.

Regarding the sleep benefit, I still feel as though I sleep better even if I don't pin it close to bed. I know guys who do pin it close to bed, and have had good results. My thinking is WHY cut out that natural pulse if you can avoid it, and reap the benefits of the pulse and the exogenous?

 

[Perrin Aybara]

What time do you go to bed work days?

I would, assuming you're in bed after 9pm, pin the GH 45 minutes pre workout. On non-training days, before breakfast. I really believe your natural GH pulse from hitting the weight hard will be serious enough to complement the exogenous GH well. On the weekend training days I would do 45min pre workout.

I break my dosages up right now, I do 5iu before breakfast and 5iu pre training (assuming they are ~4 hours or more apart. If I'm AM training, I just do it all at once). But, when I run lower dosages I run it just like the above suggestion. I do not want to interfere with the natural GH pulse if I can avoid it. Assuming the GH doesn't make you lethargic, pre workout IMO is best.

Regarding the sleep benefit, I still feel as though I sleep better even if I don't pin it close to bed. I know guys who do pin it close to bed, and have had good results. My thinking is WHY cut out that natural pulse if you can avoid it, and reap the benefits of the pulse and the exogenous?

I usually get to bed at 10:00-10:30pm on work nights. Sometimes weekends, too.

I'm going to try this out for awhile starting tomorrow and see how it does me. I'll give you an update after awhile and let you know what I think.

I got some ghrh and ghrp awhile back and ended up deciding not to use them. Might try them at bedtime to boost my natural pulse until they run out so I don't waste $100. Already reconstituted them anyway.

I appreciate the input.

 

[Wunderpus]

I usually get to bed at 10:00-10:30pm on work nights. Sometimes weekends, too.

I'm going to try this out for awhile starting tomorrow and see how it does me. I'll give you an update after awhile and let you know what I think.

I got some ghrh and ghrp awhile back and ended up deciding not to use them. Might try them at bedtime to boost my natural pulse until they run out so I don't waste $100. Already reconstituted them anyway.

I appreciate the input.

That sounds like the best plan.

 

[stevonov]

hey wunderpus, Are you sure you get the natty hgh release at night while taking exogenous hgh? I'm guessing its like test where your natural production shuts down? ive had < .1 serum levels after coming off so I know its shut down afterwards for sure.

 

[Sampei]

You cut out your natural pulse anyway, GH subQ have a release of something like 10-12 hours for what I remember, and I'm pretty sure I have bloods to prove it, because I pin before bed and the next morning went to do draw blood and I had my BG elevated, retested the next day without pinning gh and my BG was good.

btw If I pin not before bed I'm a zombie all day long and can't function as a human being.

 

[stevonov]

I am sure thats why your body releases the most at night. that when it works its magic the best

 

[Nutpuncher]

You cut out your natural pulse anyway, GH subQ have a release of something like 10-12 hours for what I remember, and I'm pretty sure I have bloods to prove it, because I pin before bed and the next morning went to do draw blood and I had my BG elevated, retested the next day without pinning gh and my BG was good.

btw If I pin not before bed I'm a zombie all day long and can't function as a human being.

So once you introduce exogenous gh, your body stops naturally producing gh?

 

[acoll83]

I got some blood drawn this week for lipids, kidney function, etc. and went ahead and added an IGF-1 test since I've been running the greys a little over a month now. The test was called the deluxe anti aging panel, I believe.

I'd been on 2iu before bed for 30 days and had just switched to 3iu/day 2-3 days before that. So 3iu the night before the test at 9:30pm and 3iu at 5:30am the morning of the test. Blood drawn at 8:30am. No baseline numbers unfortunately. And yes, I see my hematocrit is sky high and I'm surprised by that as I've had no symptoms and BP has been in the normal range.

View attachment 41732

Do you know why you've slept so badly over the years? Like have you had any tests done? I've always slept like shit and been considering these greys anyway after my meet.

 

[acoll83]

I got some blood drawn this week for lipids, kidney function, etc. and went ahead and added an IGF-1 test since I've been running the greys a little over a month now. The test was called the deluxe anti aging panel, I believe.

I'd been on 2iu before bed for 30 days and had just switched to 3iu/day 2-3 days before that. So 3iu the night before the test at 9:30pm and 3iu at 5:30am the morning of the test. Blood drawn at 8:30am. No baseline numbers unfortunately. And yes, I see my hematocrit is sky high and I'm surprised by that as I've had no symptoms and BP has been in the normal range.

View attachment 41732

Do you know why you've slept so badly over the years? Like have you had any tests done? I've always slept like shit and been considering these greys anyway after my meet.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Do you know why you've slept so badly over the years? Like have you had any tests done? I've always slept like shit and been considering these greys anyway after my meet.

I really don't know, I assume heavy drug use when I was younger. For years I didn't work or do anything that didn't revolve around drugs . I usually didn't bother even sleeping on a 24 hour schedule, I'd stay up until I passed out and I woke up whenever I woke up on my own. Kept my windows blacked out. Then spent a few years heavily medicated on antipsychotics, anxiety and sleeping meds.

When I first kicked it all cold turkey my sleep was a lot worse. I'm a really light sleeper anyway. It made prison rough when I got assigned a night shift porter job, lol. Couldn't sleep for shit during the day when it was loud and the sun was out and the guards tripped out if you covered your window. It's kind of leveled out for awhile now. I fall asleep easy, but wake up a lot and that's when it's hard to fall back asleep. Wake up two or three times and be up twenty minutes each time and it really eats into your night's sleep.

With the greys I seem to sleep a lot deeper. Might wake up to take a leak, but fall back to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. Now I'm seeming to wake up a little earlier feeling like it's time to get up. Like usually I'll wake up at 5:55 and now I'll be up at like 5:15 feeling like it's time to get up. Some mornings I'll just get up early, sometimes I'll fall back to sleep a few minutes. It's still a huge improvement though.

 

[Nutpuncher]

I really don't know, I assume heavy drug use when I was younger. For years I didn't work or do anything that didn't revolve around drugs . I usually didn't bother even sleeping on a 24 hour schedule, I'd stay up until I passed out and I woke up whenever I woke up on my own. Kept my windows blacked out. Then spent a few years heavily medicated on antipsychotics, anxiety and sleeping meds.

When I first kicked it all cold turkey my sleep was a lot worse. I'm a really light sleeper anyway. It made prison rough when I got assigned a night shift porter job, lol. Couldn't sleep for shit during the day when it was loud and the sun was out and the guards tripped out if you covered your window. It's kind of leveled out for awhile now. I fall asleep easy, but wake up a lot and that's when it's hard to fall back asleep. Wake up two or three times and be up twenty minutes each time and it really eats into your night's sleep.

With the greys I seem to sleep a lot deeper. Might wake up to take a leak, but fall back to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. Now I'm seeming to wake up a little earlier feeling like it's time to get up. Like usually I'll wake up at 5:55 and now I'll be up at like 5:15 feeling like it's time to get up. Some mornings I'll just get up early, sometimes I'll fall back to sleep a few minutes. It's still a huge improvement though.

Not sure if I said this before.... Congrats on getting to where you are today....

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Not sure if I said this before.... Congrats on getting to where you are today....

Thanks, brother. It's been a long and bumpy road for sure. Congrats to you as well for turning your life around, too.

 

[acoll83]

I really don't know, I assume heavy drug use when I was younger. For years I didn't work or do anything that didn't revolve around drugs . I usually didn't bother even sleeping on a 24 hour schedule, I'd stay up until I passed out and I woke up whenever I woke up on my own. Kept my windows blacked out. Then spent a few years heavily medicated on antipsychotics, anxiety and sleeping meds.

When I first kicked it all cold turkey my sleep was a lot worse. I'm a really light sleeper anyway. It made prison rough when I got assigned a night shift porter job, lol. Couldn't sleep for shit during the day when it was loud and the sun was out and the guards tripped out if you covered your window. It's kind of leveled out for awhile now. I fall asleep easy, but wake up a lot and that's when it's hard to fall back asleep. Wake up two or three times and be up twenty minutes each time and it really eats into your night's sleep.

With the greys I seem to sleep a lot deeper. Might wake up to take a leak, but fall back to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. Now I'm seeming to wake up a little earlier feeling like it's time to get up. Like usually I'll wake up at 5:55 and now I'll be up at like 5:15 feeling like it's time to get up. Some mornings I'll just get up early, sometimes I'll fall back to sleep a few minutes. It's still a huge improvement though.

I agree and can relate to heavy drug use playing a part. I also have been on a bunch of different psych meds but it doesn't sound like to the extent that you were. I'm the complete opposite, once I fall asleep I am out like a rock but once I wake up to take a piss, that's the problem. It's falling back asleep and even when I do get hours of sleep I never feel well rested.

I think I said this to you in the PL thread, but if not, congrats on slaying that demon. If yours was anything like mine, there's nothing that'll take you back to that sick way of life. Plus you'll lose all your gainzz lol.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I agree and can relate to heavy drug use playing a part. I also have been on a bunch of different psych meds but it doesn't sound like to the extent that you were. I'm the complete opposite, once I fall asleep I am out like a rock but once I wake up to take a piss, that's the problem. It's falling back asleep and even when I do get hours of sleep I never feel well rested.

I think I said this to you in the PL thread, but if not, congrats on slaying that demon. If yours was anything like mine, there's nothing that'll take you back to that sick way of life. Plus you'll lose all your gainzz lol.

Thanks, brother. Congrats on your sobriety as well. Yeah, I'm an extremist with anything I get into. A gift and a curse depending on what it is. Definitely not going back to living like I was. Thinking about banging opiates makes me feel a little ill honestly after all I've been through with it. Can't afford to lose all these gainz either.

 

[acoll83]

Thanks, brother. Congrats on your sobriety as well. Yeah, I'm an extremist with anything I get into. A gift and a curse depending on what it is. Definitely not going back to living like I was. Thinking about banging opiates makes me feel a little ill honestly after all I've been through with it. Can't afford to lose all these gainz either.

Thanks man. As long as you keep that fresh in your mind you'll be alright. Most important thing I'm sure you know is to not forget where you came from. As soon as you forget that, your ass is on it's way back lol. I've accomplished more in the 3 years I'm clean than in the 29 years before them. Keep it up brother!

 

[Wunderpus]

So once you introduce exogenous gh, your body stops naturally producing gh?

Only for about 4-5 hours. It's not like test where it causes longer term suppression. If he pins in the AM, it'll have cleared by bed time.

 

[Sampei]

Only for about 4-5 hours. It's not like test where it causes longer term suppression. If he pins in the AM, it'll have cleared by bed time.

Post studies, it's all broscience for what I know.

 

[Wunderpus]

Post studies, it's all broscience for what I know.

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.2.6377#R31

"The proportion of 20K-hGH to 22K-hGH was fairly constant (ca. 5%). In the 20K-hGH-treated groups (Fig. 1, B-E), serum 20K-hGH levels increased within 30 min after injection, reached a peak between 2 and 6 h, and decreased by the end of the sampling period. In contrast, the spontaneous 22K-hGH surges were suppressed after a delay of a few hours after injection, especially at higher doses."

I do wish they were less vague with "a few hours", however I have to figure that means no more than 6 hours, yeah?

These studies are tough to find to support or refute the claim that exog. GH suppresses natural pulse for X amount of time, this is what I dug up.