Track And Field May Scrap Its Records Because Of Doping Scandals.

[Big_paul]

There is no solution to this problem. Steroids have been available to athletes for decades.

 

[grey]

There is no solution to this problem

Pretty sure straight up open-use would fix it.

Would also take away this bullshit cover that sports figures are supposed to provide some sort of moral compass to children.

 

[Roco Bama]

Track And Field May Scrap Its Records Because Of Doping Scandals. Is That A Good Idea?
Track And Field May Scrap Its Records Because Of Doping Scandals. Is That A Good Idea?

The Russian doping affair that became public with a report by a World Anti-Doping Agency-supported independent commission in 2016 is only the latest doping scandal to rock the world of track and field. From the wide-scale doping programs in the 1980s Soviet Union and East Germany, to Ben Johnson and the Balco scandal that snared Marion Jones, doping has a long history in the sport.

Now, a proposal developed by European Athletics and submitted to track and field’s international governing body, the International Association of Athletics Federations, aims to wipe the slate clean.

The proposed rules would essentially annul records set before 2005, when new anti-doping standards took effect. “It’s a radical solution for sure, but those of us who love athletics are tired of the cloud of doubt and innuendo that has hung over our records for too long,” EA President President Svein Arne Hansen said in a statement. IAAF President Sebastian Coe has also expressed support for the proposal, and the IAAF plans to consider it by the end of the year.

We gathered a few runners and sports journalists to discuss the proposal, the ethical issues it raises and what track and field might do to improve the sport’s credibility. The transcript has been lightly edited.

Their new anti doping standard is still not accurate. WADA's drug tests can only detect substances that are in the prohibited list. scientists can synthesized new anabolic compounds that have different molecular structures. Who knows how many steroids are out there that never reach the black market.

 

[Hugh J Sachs]

So you're telling me that someone who sits on their ass all day can have their athletic performance enhanced by shooting some drugs?
No.
Steroids do not enhance athletic performance. Lifting 800lbs isn't athleticism? I know 3 people that can't even walk up a flight of stairs without getting winded, but they each can squat 750lbs.
Sprinting 200 meters in 19.19 is athleticism.
Fighting 5 - 5 minute rounds is athleticism.
Playing 2 40 minute halves with no breaks is athleticism.
Sprinters, fighters, rugby players... I've played all those sports and I can see how being on even a small dose of test could have greatly benefited me in recovery, thus allowing me to train more often with higher intensity, recovering faster, and therefore helping my performance.
But no. Steroids do not enhance athleticism.

That's stupid. Strength is never a part of the athletic equation and steroids only advantage in sports is being able to handle increased training volume?

 

[Hugh J Sachs]

Netflix has debuted the trailer for Icarus, their Russian Olympic doping documentary set to debut on August 4.

In the audacious documentary Icarus, director Bryan Fogel’s bold gambit was this: to investigate doping in sports, Fogel (an amateur bike racer) would dope himself, observe the changes in his performance, and see if he could evade detection. In doing so, he was connected to a renegade Russian scientist, Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov, a pillar of his country’s “anti-doping” program. Over dozens of Skype calls, urine samples, and badly administered hormone injections, Fogel and Rodchenkov grow closer despite shocking allegations that place Rodchenkov at the center of Russia’s state-sponsored Olympic doping program.

When the truth is more complex than imagined, and accusations of illegalities run to Russia’s highest chains of command, the two realize they hold the power to reveal the biggest international sports scandal in living memory. Exemplifying the special bond between filmmaker and subject, this is a vital portrait of the sacrifice some people will make to stand up for truth. Icarus places you at the heart of an international game of cat and mouse, where a miscalculation can cost you your life.

Will watch.

 

[Leancuisine]

That's stupid. Strength is never a part of the athletic equation and steroids only advantage in sports is being able to handle increased training volume?

Increased training intensity.
Athletes don't train for volume. Again, I don't think you've ever been in a competitive sport that actually requires athleticism. Otherwise you would know an intense 30 minute training session is better than a 2 hour GVT session.
The faster you recover, the more you can train, the harder you can push yourself.
Strength+Speed=Power. So yeah it's part of the athletic equation. Steroids make you stronger. But they don't make you faster. That's all done through training.

While I was natural I had a 21.19 200m sprint. I loved track but I also played football.
I was not as strong as some of the kids that were juicing, but I was the 2nd fastest guy on the team. The guy faster than me was a good friend of mine and was also natural. Odd. If juice increases athleticism I should have been at the tail end of the team.

 

[Hugh J Sachs]

So you mean steroids do increase athletism, but dont make you faster. Which I'm also pretty sure may be untrue, like when that canadian sprinter beat carl lewis back in the 88 olympics but was busted for steroid use and stripped. Pretty sure he was juicing to increase his bench.
And as someone who has "never competed in a competitive sport that requires athleticism", I'm glad to hear about your track achievements. But I think I recall hearing of athletes training for more than 30 minutes. Maybe they didn't win, though.

 

[Leancuisine]

So you mean steroids do increase athletism, but dont make you faster. Which I'm also pretty sure may be untrue, like when that canadian sprinter beat carl lewis back in the 88 olympics but was busted for steroid use and stripped. Pretty sure he was juicing to increase his bench.
And as someone who has "never competed in a competitive sport that requires athleticism", I'm glad to hear about your track achievements. But I think I recall hearing of athletes training for more than 30 minutes. Maybe they didn't win, though.

No. Steroids do not increase athleticism. They increase your recovery rate. Therefore allowing you to train more frequently with the same intensity.
Otherwise, everyone should be more athletic than me, as I only take 200mg of test ever. People here on this bored run 2 grams of test, but I know for a fact can not run faster or jump higher than me.
It's an anecdotal account, but taking 10x the amount of test should make them more athletic, right? Since, in your mind, steroids increase athleticism.
This isn't the case at all.

 

[grey]

This is a semantic issue to some extent.

Steroids allow better recovery and increases in muscular strength (if programmed correctly in training of course).

Larger maximal strength available allow athletic movements (techniques and skills) to be performed at a low percentage of maximal strength to the same effect.

To quote Coach "There are no Technique Steroids" but being stronger can help your techniques be performed at a lower sub-maximal range (ergo easier and more repeatable at larger power outputs).


This is why athletes will risk their careers by taking PEDs that don't have direct athletic of skill effects. Being stronger helps indirectly.

There is a curve of diminishing returns for strength of course, but few athletes get anywhere near it.

 

[Sworder]

No. Steroids do not increase athleticism. They increase your recovery rate. Therefore allowing you to train more frequently with the same intensity.
Otherwise, everyone should be more athletic than me, as I only take 200mg of test ever. People here on this bored run 2 grams of test, but I know for a fact can not run faster or jump higher than me.
It's an anecdotal account, but taking 10x the amount of test should make them more athletic, right? Since, in your mind, steroids increase athleticism.
This isn't the case at all.

Trolling?

 

[Sworder]

WTF are you guys on? Yes, steroids increase the recovery rate but when you are recovering on steroids more androgen receptors are being activated leading to a larger gain of muscle(strength+mass.)

The way I am reading what you guys are saying is giving steroids an extremely downplayed role, as if the only thing that changes is you can work out more often since recovery is faster...

Athleticism = speed, power and endurance.

Steroids increases speed, power and endurance...

Remember Kevin Levrone's sprint?

 

[Sworder]

No. Steroids do not increase athleticism. They increase your recovery rate. Therefore allowing you to train more frequently with the same intensity.
Otherwise, everyone should be more athletic than me, as I only take 200mg of test ever. People here on this bored run 2 grams of test, but I know for a fact can not run faster or jump higher than me.

There is something called diminishing returns. So even though as your train of thought is that the more the better in reality that is not the case. There are optimal levels of strength, speed and endurance for different sports.
Consider this, a 6' 130lbs "athlete" would most likely be considered too skinny as he doesn't have much muscle mass, this is sub-optimal. A 6' 190 lbs athlete may be in the sweet spot of where he should be. And at the end of the spectrum a 6' 300lbs athlete weights too much and has too much muscle mass making it sub-optimal.

The degrees of endurance, speed and power vary from sport to sport but using steroids to enhance those three areas coupled with great technical skills within the sport will give you a winner.

Did you know that they were going to put in mandatory RBC testing and disallow anybody with a hct of 50% to compete in cycling? Obviously the athletes protested and this didn't pass...

 

[Leancuisine]

Steroids don't increase your speed. You can't just sit there and take steroids and have your speed increased.

I have a feeling the people saying steroids increase athleticism weren't athletes.

 

[Leancuisine]

Trolling?

No I'm not trolling. I don't troll.

You guys are 100% right. Steroids make you a god. That's why I was faster naturally than I ever have been on steroids.

Because training has absolutely nothing to do with it, and speed is increased by steroids.

Again. I have a feeling none of you have competed in a real athletic event. And no, bodybuilding is not a sport, and requires no real need of any athleticism.

 

[Sworder]

Steroids don't increase your speed. You can't just sit there and take steroids and have your speed increased.

I have a feeling the people saying steroids increase athleticism weren't athletes.

Ok sure steroids don't increase speed? Are you fucking high? You don't think muscles have anything to do with speed?

You are dumbbbbb

 

[Leancuisine]

There is something called diminishing returns. So even though as your train of thought is that the more the better in reality that is not the case. There are optimal levels of strength, speed and endurance for different sports.
Consider this, a 6' 130lbs "athlete" would most likely be considered too skinny as he doesn't have much muscle mass, this is sub-optimal. A 6' 190 lbs athlete may be in the sweet spot of where he should be. And at the end of the spectrum a 6' 300lbs athlete weights too much and has too much muscle mass making it sub-optimal.

The degrees of endurance, speed and power vary from sport to sport but using steroids to enhance those three areas coupled with great technical skills within the sport will give you a winner.

Did you know that they were going to put in mandatory RBC testing and disallow anybody with a hct of 50% to compete in cycling? Obviously the athletes protested and this didn't pass...

So to take your classification of athletes and shit all over your ignorance....

We had a winger who was 140lbs and 6'1". Faster than anyone on the team. Perfectly optimal person for that position.
Our props were about 270-300 lbs. perfect physique for their position.

I was a left wing sitting at around 200lbs. I was alright.

 

[Sworder]

So to take your classification of athletes and shit all over your ignorance....

We had a winger who was 140lbs and 6'1". Faster than anyone on the team. Perfectly optimal person for that position.
Our props were about 270-300 lbs. perfect physique for their position.

I was a left wing sitting at around 200lbs. I was alright.

Do you not understand my point about optimal athleticism?

 

[Leancuisine]

Ok sure steroids don't increase speed? Are you fucking high? You don't think muscles have anything to do with speed?

You are dumbbbbb

Ok guy. If you and I race who do you think would win? You definitely take a whole lot more juice than I do. Probably have more muscle too. Guarantee I smoke you.
Why do you think that is?

You meat heads are overlooking a very crucial point here. Training.
I went undefeated at the 185 weight for MMA. I went down to Georgia and boxed with some 135lbers when I was about 210lbs. Got my ass whooped.
I had more muscle, I should have beat them huh @Sworder

 

[grey]

This thread started so well.

 

[Leancuisine]

Do you not understand my point about optimal athleticism?

I don't think you understand the basic point of athleticism.