MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Trans guy
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malfeasance
Well-known Member
91.4% were at normal range, around 521.4 ng/dL on only 46 mg a week of testosterone.
Interesting.
We don't get many long term studies like that.
Interesting.
We don't get many long term studies like that.
Olson J, Schrager SM, Clark LF, Dunlap SL, Belzer M. Subcutaneous Testosterone: An Effective Delivery Mechanism for Masculinizing Young Transgender Men. LGBT Health. 2014 Sep;1(3):165-7. doi: 10.1089/lgbt.2014.0018. Epub 2014 Jun 26. PMID: 26789709.
Abstract
Purpose: Testosterone is the recommended treatment for transgender youth who desire the development of male secondary sexual characteristics. While intramuscular injection remains the most common means of delivering injectable testosterone, subcutaneous (SC) delivery has been used with clinical success. No data reporting serum levels and feasibility are available. We aimed to determine both if subcutaneous delivery of testosterone resulted in menstrual cessation, and the normal male ranges of serum testosterone in this subpopulation of female-to-male transgender youth.
Methods: Within an urban hospital-affiliated Adolescent Medicine clinic, thirty-six youth aged 13 to 24 years transitioning from female to male received testosterone cypionate via subcutaneous injections for masculinization. Participants were a subpopulation of those enrolled in a longitudinal, prospective study examining the impact of treatment for transgender youth. A titrated dose of testosterone cypionate (average dose 46.4 mg per week) via subcutaneous injection was delivered over 6 months. The main outcomes included menstrual cessation as well as raised free and total testosterone levels.
Results: Eighty-five percent of participants had ceased menstrual bleeding within 6 months after initiating testosterone. The average time to menstrual cessation was 2.9 months. Most participants (91.4%) reached total testosterone levels within the normal male range after 6 months of subcutaneous delivery (49-1138 ng/dL, 521.4 ng/dL total test). Few adverse effects were reported.
Conclusion: Subcutaneous delivery of testosterone for masculinization of transgender youth seems to be effective and well tolerated over short treatment times. Additional studies are needed to determine whether long term use of subcutaneous testosterone delivery yield similar results.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Children. It's a little disturbing that one was a 13 year old girl. I really do not think a child that age has any clue what the consequences are of her actions in this regard.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
So the mean was 46 mg a week. They started them all off on 25mg and worked up from there based on blood levels. The range of dosage at the end of the six months was 25mg to 75 mg weekly, with the mean being 46 mg.
Nobody was anywhere near 200-250mg a week. They did not even bring a single participant up to 100mg.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
Even for identity or sexual preference. Dont really even know that young. Can still be determined as you get older.
fike
Member
My 13-year-old son think he's a grown ass man these days. Screw taking him to a psychologist for extensive counseling. I'm thinking about just saving the money of those couple necessary psych evaluations and getting his thoughts myself about starting him on a 200 shot of test per week and a few IUs of GH for a couple months and then releasing him into the wild to experience what its like to really live as a man. I mean, he's 13, right? His brain is fully developed. I'll also add that he has autism and is beginning to go through puberty, so he has that going for him as well.
Something tells me that he'll be seeking to detransition his ass back home within a couple days and he'll be regretting the idea that he thought he could use a man made substance to attempt to beat out nature and basic biology.
Something tells me that he'll be seeking to detransition his ass back home within a couple days and he'll be regretting the idea that he thought he could use a man made substance to attempt to beat out nature and basic biology.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
I got some tren if you wanna TRENsition him while you are at it.
fike
Member
Your whit is impeccable, sir. In all seriousness, though, this is one of those topics I don't want to touch with a 10 foot pole, because every left-leaning lunatic on meso will come after me with pitchforks and torches. All I will say is that I feel so bad for the kids that are being allowed hormone therapy at young ages, The psychiatric professionals, and more especially, the parents of these kids with their young, impressionable personalities, and undeveloped little brains minds should feel so much shame for allowing what they are doing. They have failed miserably at preparing these children to be productive, healthy members of society.
fike
Member
If a person is over 18 (whose brain still isn’t fully developed,) then more power to them. I don’t care what anyone does as long as they aren’t t hurting another person or forcing their beliefs on me or making laws where I’m being compelled to do something I don’t believe in. I love people in a brotherly love sense regardless of identity., you included, even though we’ve never met.
I have a major problem with providers distributing hormones and hormone blockers to children though. And as a parent, I definitely take issue with a supposed protector and guardian, aka parent, giving consent to a doctor practicing very questionable medical practices on behalf of a very underdeveloped mind to make a major life changing decision such as this.
That’’s where my line is. Adult….do what you please. Children….let them grow and develop and make that decision later in life. Trans people aren’t necessarily who I have the problem with. It’s just very hard for me to empathize with parents that allow practice to happen. But I feel tremendous amount of sympathy for the kids who are confused in life and want to be comfortable in their own skin. It sounds terrible,
Will write this with no emotion as this part of this is very emotional for me...
In 2007 I lost a child to Leukemia. At the time many people had emotional and moral issues with Stem Cell research, so my daughter did not get many medicines which could of given her greater chances for survival. Medicines which today are standard care for someone with Leukemia.
This is why I feel doctors, not the emotional and moral issues of a public trying to deal with there understanding of the future should decide this.
In 2007 I lost a child to Leukemia. At the time many people had emotional and moral issues with Stem Cell research, so my daughter did not get many medicines which could of given her greater chances for survival. Medicines which today are standard care for someone with Leukemia.
This is why I feel doctors, not the emotional and moral issues of a public trying to deal with there understanding of the future should decide this.
I had a friend who as a parent was in this exact situation. She loved her child more than anything and agonized over doing what was best for the child. So much that she moved across the country to seek help from the researchers and doctors at one of the largest transgender health research centers in the country. It costs her a lot including her marriage. I have no doubt she was doing the best she could.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
I am sorry to hear that brother. Childhood leukemia typically has a far better survival rate than adults(atleast today). No one should ever be burying their child. They should be burying us.
I am all for adult sex-reassignment therapy and people pursuing their happiness and feeling comfortable in their own skin. It does bother me a little that someone has to find UGL therapy for something I feel should be covered by insurance.(if they do have it)
In regards to doctors/science making decisions.
I can see both sides of your stories and in a way it is similar.
From what I remember about childhood development is that sexual identity(assuming that this goes for sexuality) is started at puberty moving forward. Obviously there is no set age.
But permanent physical sexual alterations are still a hot topic as some of these kids aren't even sure of themselves and are still in self discovery in adulthood(per science).
Even then its not hard set that you become a mature adult at 18. I think most of us would agree its around 23-25 for men lol
fike
Member
I'm sorry to hear....my deepest condolences.
the only way that I can reply is that this topic, among many others of today, are very complex issues and I wish they were simpler. there are doctors and other intelligent and wise individuals on both sides of the isle. Emotion or rationality alone can't form a solid answer for any of these issues. Morals, ethics, legality, duty to preserve life, and a number of other factors have to be looked at individually to form a whole, but I just feel like there are other factors outside of a medical perspective that are coming into play with matter such as the trans issues. It's very ideologically and politically driven. It's very divisive and thrown in the face of my kids every time they turn on the TV or watch YouTube, so we have to monitor them extra hard because it's very often that we get questions like "Why is that little boy pretending to be a girl is this video?" How do you explain this to a 6 year old? It has to be done from a moralistic point of view based on our beliefs as parents because they can't grasp what they are watching enough to form an educated opinion yet. If we don't explain it to them from our worldview, they become very confused. Of course, we teach them to approach it from a place of compassion, but it confuses the hell out of them. In that way, I see it as very dangerous. I'm just concerned for my children. Surely we can agree that we want to protect our children from what we perceive as harmful.
I still am hopeful that a bodybuilding community that supports the use of AAS to create a hypermasculine physique of their own choosing will support other communities that support the use of AAS to create a hypermasculine physique of their own choosing.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
I guess I didnt think of this part.
fike
Member
I have no doubt about that either just from what you told me, but I know parents don't think so clearly sometimes when it comes to the hurt a child is feeling. I say this from personal experience. Early in my marriage, my daughter had a hard time adjusting because they all lived in a very abusive home with my wife's ex. In a fit of desperation and some extensive intrusion via secret means from my wife's ex, he talked her into leaving and coming back to a rental home signed for her to get until my daughter got better. Little did she know at the time, but my daughter pain led her to run right back to the abuser who controlled her mentally and physically for 11 years prior. I thank God every day she woke up to what was really happening and asked if she could come home because he was trying to break in and kill her for marrying me. After some time my daughter also realized what was going on and what her father did to them and now she calls me her dad and loves me more than anybody in this world. But it took time and some pain on behalf of us as parents as well to help her adjust and get her mind sorted out. Many times, us parents just don't make very well informed decisions when our children are involved.
fike
Member
Sorry for kicking the hornets nest, brothers. This is definitely not a very friendly topic.
egruberman
Well-known Member
I have some experience with this and have gone to conferences where the doctors discuss such things. It occurred to me that they're not that great at using science. Many of them had a weak grasp of endocrinology and were obviously very passionate about getting folks the treatment they *need* while underrepresenting the potential side effects. Not one convinced me that they could explain the means by which they arrived at their conclusions about who needed treatment with such certainty.
It is true that many gender affirming treatments are irreversible. Test can permanently sterilize folks born with ovaries, and estrogen can cause breasts to grow, testicles shrink etc. There's also some data that strongly suggests that a large portion of youth, i.e. around 75%, that initially identify as trans, eventually turn out as gay. Effectively these folks are espousing the sterilization of gay people, which in any other context would be very much not cool.
Point being, there's no good answer. I met a lot of kids at these conferences, some of whom I was certain would be better off if allowed to transition and not face puberty, but I wouldn't have had anything to go on other than a feeling, and feelings are not science.
Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. Best of luck to OP in getting the help he's looking for.
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