Trest (MENT) + TRT or Tren for Cutting Cycle???

[MFAAS]

Howdy all. Glad 2020 is over, and 2020 is off to a rocky but seemingly OK start. But we're not here to talk ab out that stuff. No politics, no government crap, no doomsday...nothing but pure, juicy cycle planning!

Those of you who know me somewhat should realize I am a very thorough person and my posts can get a little long sometimes--and this is no exception, lol!

Alright, so I am currently running the following since December 6, 2020 (going on 8 weeks now and it's going amazingly well):

• Test C: 580 mg/week (250mg E3D)
• NPP: 350 mg/week (50mg/day)
• Anavar: 280 mg/week (40 mg/day split breakfast/lunch)
• Ipamorelin/MOD GRF: growth hormone releasing peptide/hormone, respectively. The protocol I am at puts my IGF-1 at around 330 ng/dL (upper limit to range is 282 ng/dL)
  • However, I am running out and not sure if I feel like getting more, or if I should just jump on over to HGH? More on that below.

I have been bulking, eating around 3500-4000 calories per day. Went from 6'2" 2087 lbs ~11-12% BF to now fluctuating between 220-225 lbs in the AM. Visibly I look way bigger and hardly look to have gained any fat. Pre- and current-body fat caliper measurements:

• Pre-cycle:
  • Love handles: right: 20 mm; left: 22mm
  • Abs: 18 mm
• Current:
  • Love handles: right: 28mm; left: 28 mm (really the only place I gain fat is my love handles nowadays)
  • Abs: 18 mm
• Probably got myself up to about 14-15% BF this cycle...so I have gained a little bit of fat, definitely some water retention although it doesn't look like much, and a ton of muscle.

My current bulking cycle is over after week 12, or the 28th or February. Then I will drop down to my cruise dose of 120 m / week Test C. I then have a TRT checkup blood test 1 month later, so I can't take anything that will raise flags for the blood test. Which is why I am looking for any info anyone has one what biomarkers MENT changes for them on their blood panels? Dose SHBG/E2 change? How about HCT/HBG or neutrophils? Does MENT have an impact on lipids at all? Is MENT something you could run alongside your TRT during your HRT blood test checkups and not really have your doctor notice??

I have the following on hand for the year, but can always get more:

• A shit load of Test C and E 200 & 300 mg/mL-
  • Although I am pretty sure the shit I got from colonial is under-dosed as I have been having E2 problems since switching from my other vendor to Colonial Labs' shit.... all I did was change over to Colonial Labs' test and kept my AI dose the same and it seems like I am having low E2 problems (mostly around erections and ejaculation)
• 2x Tren Ace 100 mg/mL
• 4x NPP 100 mg/mL
• 4x Trestolone/MENT 50mg/mL

So basically I want 2 things:

1. I want to go from current bulk cycle right into my cruise, but add something mild on top the cruise that won't raise flags for the doc but will provide some good benefits for me mentally and physically--it seems like Trest fits that bill, right?
2. Once I get my blood draw and am in the clear I want to start up a full-fledged cut cycle:

My cycle ends last week of Feb, then I have blood tests in of April/May after my levels have reduced down.

Once that blood test is drawn, I am good to go!!! I have never run Tren before but am excited to try it (already discussed this in another thread) and I have certainly not tried MENT before but it sounds like it will be absolutely amazing. I can't make up my mind about what I want to run (for a summer cut). Along with all cycles I do 1000IU of hCG per week just to keep my balls from aching and give me better orgasms (and doc that says it doesn't make a diff in orgasm intensity is just a liar!

So for adding something on top my cruise dose after my current cycle that won't cause red flags for the doc: would 5 mg/day of MENT fit he bill there?? Have anyone does this successfully?


Then for the actual options for my cut cycle: I will be running a hypertrophy program (high rep high volume overall, using RIR to calculate progression--that's a side topic altogether, though) my own custom periodization program that lasts about 15 weeks, eating 500 cal deficit daily--pretty standard program.

• Cut Cycle Option 1 - TRT + Tren:
  • Test C - TRT dose of 120 mg/week
  • Tren Ace - 175 / week (25mg/day). This would be more than enough for me, don't go telling me to take 300) mg lol, I am not gonna do it; from my research 15-25mg/day would be plenty to get the benefits of tren with little-to-no side effects;
• Cut Cycle Option 2 - TRT + MENT
  • Test C - Dial back TRT dose to maybe 70-80 mg/ week...then...
  • MENT 5-10mg / day
  • However, some people say if you are gonna blast MENT (which I am still kinda below blast territory at that dose) the you should run it SOLO.
  • Some dudes were recommending/saying you need to have letro on hand for running MENT...is this true? I usually just use anastrozole...however it seems the e2 problems for MENT maybe have been overexaggerated by many bros and you'd be fine with just normal arimidex 12.5/25mg pills,
• Cut Cycle Option 3:
  • 175 mg MENT per week (25 mg / day)
  • No test
  • Just chill on that and see how it goes?
• Cycle Option 4 (Super ExperiMENT):
  • 105 mg Tren Ace / week (15 mg/day)
  • 5-10 mg MENT / day

So my question-s-and yes there's a few of them that are doozies~!
1. What do you guys think the best option would be? What would you do if the had these compounds? I'm leaning towards #2 currently for the sake of experimenting, though I KNOW cutting on TRT+Tren would get me down to ~8-9% BF.
2. Has anyone combined Tren and MENT yet in a single cycle? I don't see much out there regarding this. What about doing just
3. Or should I give Tren/MENT a go instead? That seems like it could be mightly interesting...

Then there is the question of HGH. I have been running Ipamorelin/MOD GRF on and off for the better part of over 2 years. I am feeling ready to start giving a try with an EOD HGH schedule of doing 3-4 IU EOD in the morning. HGH is fucking expensive--I am about to run out of my Ipa/MOD GRF and haven't device if I should just be done with it all or make the jupm up to HGH. Note that I am NOT going to be an IFBB pro, I just complete in a few local shows lool. I have serious struggles with sleep though and the Ipa/MOD GRF really helps with that, so I'm wondering if HGH would help with that too.

Forgive any typos, I have written this throughout the day over the last several hours and was super tired when I first started lol...

 

[Bumpygooch]

I ran MENT on cruise at 10-12.5mg/day, did nothing. I wouldn’t waste my time(or gear). Running 2 19nors with no test or DHT doesn’t sound like a good time to me. I’m not touching tren, so, I won’t offer any advice other than the aforementioned. Definitely dump the peptides and go GH.

 

[MFAAS]

I ran MENT on cruise at 10-12.5mg/day, did nothing. I wouldn’t waste my time(or gear). Running 2 19nors with no test or DHT doesn’t sound like a good time to me. I’m not touching tren, so, I won’t offer any advice other than the aforementioned. Definitely dump the peptides and go GH

Yeah I guess for option 4 throwing in some Primo might make it pretty legit though....

 

[m314]

I love cutting with trest. It can hide some of the visual results with extra water weight on cycle, but it speeds up the actual fat burning process while adding size and strength. It gives me tons of energy for high volume workouts in a deficit, which raises TDEE. It makes me feel happy and optimistic too, which is the opposite of how I normally feel on a cut.

If you haven't tried it yet, start with 5 to 10 mg/day and work your way up in 5 mg increments. I would recommend getting a feel for it along with TRT level test. Don't stack it with tren until you know how it affects you with just low dose test.

Trest doesn't give me side effects other than some bloating at higher doses. Stacking it with tren makes tren sides worse in my experience. Everyone's different, so you'll have to experiment to find out for yourself. Some guys love trest with tren.

 

[m314]

I would also recommend starting low with tren and getting a feel for it with just low dose test. Don't try two new compounds in the same cycle, especially not the two strongest non methylated injectables. Two 19 nors shouldn't be run in the same cycle in general unless you have lots of experience with both.

 

[MFAAS]

I love cutting with trest. It can hide some of the visual results with extra water weight on cycle, but it speeds up the actual fat burning process while adding size and strength. It gives me tons of energy for high volume workouts in a deficit, which raises TDEE. It makes me feel happy and optimistic too, which is the opposite of how I normally feel on a cut.

If you haven't tried it yet, start with 5 to 10 mg/day and work your way up in 5 mg increments. I would recommend getting a feel for it along with TRT level test. Don't stack it with tren until you know how it affects you with just low dose test.

Trest doesn't give me side effects other than some bloating at higher doses. Stacking it with tren makes tren sides worse in my experience. Everyone's different, so you'll have to experiment to find out for yourself. Some guys love trest with tren.

THIS IS WHAT I was looking for. Thanks boss. That makes perfect sense, I figured the mental benefits would help during a cut too. I for sure won't be stacking anything crazy, I am very methodical in my testing.

Do you know how that dose of MENT affected your lipids or any other markers? Like could you take 5 mg the morning of yout TRT blood checkup and the doctor wouldn't be calling it red flags??

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

You should spend some time reading about the differences between anastrozole and exemestane. I believe after you do that you’ll want to start using exemestane in general and especially if you’re running Ment.

As for your TRT bloodwork, it’s going to affect your estrogen more than anything else. But at your low dose, who knows if it’ll be significant. I’d stay off of it instead of taking a chance with the doctor. If you want to run it, inject in the mornings and def hold off on it the day of your bloodwork until after bloods are drawn.

@m314 has a bunch of other posts on trestolone so look at his post history. He’s probably the most experienced with the compound.

Nice job on your progress so far.

Edit: I forget how old you are, but if you haven’t had kids yet, realize that trestolone will have fertility effects.

 

[MFAAS]

Thanks yall.

You should spend some time reading about the differences between anastrozole and exemestane. I believe after you do that you’ll want to start using exemestane in general and especially if you’re running Ment.

As for your TRT bloodwork, it’s going to affect your estrogen more than anything else. But at your low dose, who knows if it’ll be significant. I’d stay off of it instead of taking a chance with the doctor. If you want to run it, inject in the mornings and def hold off on it the day of your bloodwork until after bloods are drawn.

@m314 has a bunch of other posts on trestolone so look at his post history. He’s probably the most experienced with the compound.

Nice job on your progress so far.

Edit: I forget how old you are, but if you haven’t had kids yet, realize that trestolone will have fertility effects.

Yeah I am quite aware of the benefits of as I have read the more I have wanted to switch. My TRT doc scripts anastrazoel though...and actually I will be honest right now I am awfully glad I'm using anastrazole as I just crashed the FUCK out of my E2 by switching brands of gear mid cycle. I went from using gear from someone I have a certain synergy with to Colonial Labs. Same dose and everything, same concentration. I simply ran out of my other vial. Well, when I went to inject my 250 mg dose (1mL of fluid, not counting the NPP) I felt fine and popped my normal .5 mg dose of AI right there (of course). Well 12 hours or so later I feel like poo. The next morning my dick is broke, but other than that I feel okay...though obviously something is wrong. I do my HCG (500 IU) per my normal schedule), well the NEXT day I feel so fucking depressed, lethargic, like I wanna die, on and also my dick has officially caused negative numbers to be added to the Mohs Hardness Scale, due to how soft it is.

My only explanation is that the colonial labs gear was severely underdosed, so my normal dose of AI just fucked my E2 levels.

So I desperately try to fix it, I took an extra 150 mg of Test IM along with an extra 1000 IU of HCG and this morning I feel OK, dick works but still had a hard time cumming. Not worried about fertility, I got a vasectomy/never want kids

Anyway, it'll be back to normal, I'll see what my blood test results are, gonna get drawn later this morning.

I am thinking this will be my next step:

1. Go off current Test/NPP cycle (Feb 28th) back to TRT dose of 120mg/week Test C
2. Get Blood Test for TRT checkup
3. Lower TRT down to like 40 mg/week then add 5 mg MENT / day on top
4. Let that stabilize for 2 weeks, noting any changes
5. If things look good, then up dose 10 mg/day MENT
6. If that goes well, play around a bit with dosing more to find the sweet spot. Going to get a few blood tests along the way to see how various biomarkers are affected by MENT.

If I find I am not liking the results, then I may just jump over to Test+Tren Ace to cut...

 

[Bumpygooch]

Thanks yall.



Yeah I am quite aware of the benefits of as I have read the more I have wanted to switch. My TRT doc scripts anastrazoel though...and actually I will be honest right now I am awfully glad I'm using anastrazole as I just crashed the FUCK out of my E2 by switching brands of gear mid cycle. I went from using gear from someone I have a certain synergy with to Colonial Labs. Same dose and everything, same concentration. I simply ran out of my other vial. Well, when I went to inject my 250 mg dose (1mL of fluid, not counting the NPP) I felt fine and popped my normal .5 mg dose of AI right there (of course). Well 12 hours or so later I feel like poo. The next morning my dick is broke, but other than that I feel okay...though obviously something is wrong. I do my HCG (500 IU) per my normal schedule), well the NEXT day I feel so fucking depressed, lethargic, like I wanna die, on and also my dick has officially caused negative numbers to be added to the Mohs Hardness Scale, due to how soft it is.

My only explanation is that the colonial labs gear was severely underdosed, so my normal dose of AI just fucked my E2 levels.

So I desperately try to fix it, I took an extra 150 mg of Test IM along with an extra 1000 IU of HCG and this morning I feel OK, dick works but still had a hard time cumming. Not worried about fertility, I got a vasectomy/never want kids

Anyway, it'll be back to normal, I'll see what my blood test results are, gonna get drawn later this morning.

I am thinking this will be my next step:

1. Go off current Test/NPP cycle (Feb 28th) back to TRT dose of 120mg/week Test C
2. Get Blood Test for TRT checkup
3. Lower TRT down to like 40 mg/week then add 5 mg MENT / day on top
4. Let that stabilize for 2 weeks, noting any changes
5. If things look good, then up dose 10 mg/day MENT
6. If that goes well, play around a bit with dosing more to find the sweet spot. Going to get a few blood tests along the way to see how various biomarkers are affected by MENT.

If I find I am not liking the results, then I may just jump over to Test+Tren Ace to cut...

I like your enthusiasm. However, a lot of this reads like a stream of consciousness, and some of it is counterintuitive. You’re glad you’re on anastrazole because you crashed your E2? That’s WHY you crashed your E2. Your E2 wouldn’t crash that hard(if at all)with exemestane. I’m assuming your TRT script is through a clinic. What’s the reason you’re running AI on TRT dose? You shouldn’t need one. I would quit taking it and get labs done. Estrogen is neuro and cardio protective(up to a certain point) and also helps build size, no need to strangle it unless you have high E2 sides. I ran up to 840 test and never really took it, even when I added MENT(and I have some preexisting gyno, I only treat with nolva).

 

[m314]

THIS IS WHAT I was looking for. Thanks boss. That makes perfect sense, I figured the mental benefits would help during a cut too. I for sure won't be stacking anything crazy, I am very methodical in my testing.

Do you know how that dose of MENT affected your lipids or any other markers? Like could you take 5 mg the morning of yout TRT blood checkup and the doctor wouldn't be calling it red flags??

I haven't seen anything negative in my blood test results on 200 mg/week test and 10 mg/day trest. It might raise my blood pressure slightly, but not by much. I have seen higher LDL and lower HDL on higher trest doses, but I'm also usually on masteron with those cycles.

25 mg/day trest is a high dose for me at 6'3" / 240 pounds. Some guys go up to 50 mg or even higher. Looking back through old forum posts, I see lots of guys who jumped in at 50 mg/day and quit because of side effects.

 

[MFAAS]

I like your enthusiasm. However, a lot of this reads like a stream of consciousness, and some of it is counterintuitive. You’re glad you’re on anastrazole because you crashed your E2? That’s WHY you crashed your E2. Your E2 wouldn’t crash that hard(if at all)with exemestane. I’m assuming your TRT script is through a clinic. What’s the reason you’re running AI on TRT dose? You shouldn’t need one. I would quit taking it and get labs done. Estrogen is neuro and cardio protective(up to a certain point) and also helps build size, no need to strangle it unless you have high E2 sides. I ran up to 840 test and never really took it, even when I added MENT(and I have some preexisting gyno, I only treat with nolva).

That's because...like...words ARE a stream of consciousness, man!



And because it's like 4 AM and I sleep like crap, so sometimes my writing doesn't turn out so great -.-

Anyway, they prescribe me an AI, which I have on hand to use as needed. I rarely actually take it though. Personally I have always been pretty sensitive to high e2, I had childhood gyno and even after my full gland removal my nips still get a little over sensitive when my e2 gets anywhere twoards the upper 40s.

Basically I took my normal dose of AI with my 250 mg of test for my current blast, only this test was a new vial, from a new vendor (Colonial Labs). Well I'll be damned if within 12-20 hours I was starting to feel off. I couldn't finish that night while fucking, the next day felt worse, super tired and lethargic, dick just didn't work, etc. So the only possibility in my mind is that my normal dose of AI crashed my e2 because there wasn't enough Test in my system when I took it BECAUSE my gear from Colonial is underdosed...rather significantly.

I have since fixed the low E2 issue by taking a moderate dose of MENT along with some pharma test prop, just to get myself back so I am not dying anymore...

I have seen plenty of people say they don't need an AI at all on 500, 600 mg of test, etc., but for whatever reason I do wish I didn't though...

 

[Bumpygooch]

That's because...like...words ARE a stream of consciousness, man!

View attachment 141681

And because it's like 4 AM and I sleep like crap, so sometimes my writing doesn't turn out so great -.-

Anyway, they prescribe me an AI, which I have on hand to use as needed. I rarely actually take it though. Personally I have always been pretty sensitive to high e2, I had childhood gyno and even after my full gland removal my nips still get a little over sensitive when my e2 gets anywhere twoards the upper 40s.

Basically I took my normal dose of AI with my 250 mg of test for my current blast, only this test was a new vial, from a new vendor (Colonial Labs). Well I'll be damned if within 12-20 hours I was starting to feel off. I couldn't finish that night while fucking, the next day felt worse, super tired and lethargic, dick just didn't work, etc. So the only possibility in my mind is that my normal dose of AI crashed my e2 because there wasn't enough Test in my system when I took it BECAUSE my gear from Colonial is underdosed...rather significantly.

I have since fixed the low E2 issue by taking a moderate dose of MENT along with some pharma test prop, just to get myself back so I am not dying anymore...

I have seen plenty of people say they don't need an AI at all on 500, 600 mg of test, etc., but for whatever reason I do wish I didn't though...

Send the test to Jano, colonial tests frequently, and rewards well for testing. The Occam’s razor here seems to be the AI(to me), especially at a lower dose. Is the arimidex caps? I have some colonial stuff, I ran his cyp up to 840 with no issue, that was following using Pharma test at the same dose, so, I definitely would have noticed.

 

[MFAAS]

Same dose and everything, same concentration. I simply ran out of my other vial. Well, when I went to inject my 250 mg dose (1mL of fluid, not counting the NPP) I felt fine and popped my normal .5 mg dose of AI right there (of course). Well 12 hours or so later I feel like poo. The next morning my dick is broke, but other than that I feel okay...though obviously something is wrong. I do my HCG (500 IU) per my normal schedule), well the NEXT day I feel so fucking depressed, lethargic, like I wanna die, on and also my dick has officially caused negative numbers to be added to the Mohs Hardness Scale, due to how soft it is.

My only explanation is that the colonial labs gear was severely underdosed, so my normal dose of AI just fucked my E2 levels.

I want to clarify that this was NOT the Colonial gear. I did get a blood test while on the Colonial stuff and my results were glorious: a wonderful 9.38x response: 500 mg of Colonial Test C put my total T at 4690. Just want to make sure folks know if they look back at the thread that it wasn't the Colonial gear. I am not sure what was wrong with me at this point. Maybe I messed up my AI dosing and didn't realize it or something. Maybe it was just the sleep issues I was having which were really really bad around that time. I dunno. Either way, the Colonial shit was legit and I am still using it now for my TRT.

 

[BigRed91]

I want to clarify that this was NOT the Colonial gear. I did get a blood test while on the Colonial stuff and my results were glorious: a wonderful 9.38x response: 500 mg of Colonial Test C put my total T at 4690. Just want to make sure folks know if they look back at the thread that it wasn't the Colonial gear. I am not sure what was wrong with me at this point. Maybe I messed up my AI dosing and didn't realize it or something. Maybe it was just the sleep issues I was having which were really really bad around that time. I dunno. Either way, the Colonial shit was legit and I am still using it now for my TRT.

I was curious how u thought it was the colonial test cyp after the very first pin but I'm glad u said it wasnt that. I just sent some colonial off to get tested and have been on it a few weeks already

 

[justanoob]

I was curious how u thought it was the colonial test cyp after the very first pin but I'm glad u said it wasnt that. I just sent some colonial off to get tested and have been on it a few weeks already

If you remember will you please post results here when the test comes back?

 

[Live_Evil]

MFAAS, why not shop around until you find a doctor who is willing to openly work around your AAS usage? Having to tiptoe around the subject and be secretive is fucking annoying, and suboptimal as hell. I went to multiple doctors before finding a guy that is completely open and honest, and actually prefers honesty, while being willing to prescribe enough test to put you at 1200 ng/dl, which is quite nice.

 

[BigRed91]

If you remember will you please post results here when the test comes back?

Man my shit got snagged at customs and sent back to me

 

[MFAAS]

MFAAS, why not shop around until you find a doctor who is willing to openly work around your AAS usage? Having to tiptoe around the subject and be secretive is fucking annoying, and suboptimal as hell. I went to multiple doctors before finding a guy that is completely open and honest, and actually prefers honesty, while being willing to prescribe enough test to put you at 1200 ng/dl, which is quite nice.

Trying to work with a doc on this shit is not something I am looking to do at all.

Basically when I was a teenager I took advantage of the liberal prescribing of opioids and got hooked on pills and engaged in constant drug seeking behavior, so I wound up with a bunch of fake shit on my chart that now I can't find anyone who will take it off. So now my entire relationship with the medical system is fucked because every doctor just assumes I am drug seeking and trying to game the system somehow.

In short, there is absolutely no doctor in their right mind would work with me on AAS while that garbage is on my chart. It's too risky for them from a liability perspective. Luckily I feel confident in my understanding of the body to be able to mostly just take care of myself. When I have an acute issue I just call and ask for whatever, a referral or some prescription or something. Or I go to a cash pay clinic (which I do for my TRT) and just pay up, luckily I can afford it without issues.

Shit sucks. I was a stupid teenager and now it seems I will permanently be discriminated against and treated like a drug seeking addict.