I am 49 yrs old & was recently tested for LOW testosterone. I was not told my numbers but was put on 5MG androderm patch & then tested a month later. My Dr then upped the dose to 7.5MG per day ,after about a week after I started feeling extremely edgy with episodes of panic attacks at night. I have NEVER had edginess or panic attacks in my life so guessed there was some connection to the testosterone. I am only 100LBS so I'm guessing the 7.5MG was too high a dosage & possibly suppressing cortisol causing the panic attacks & edginess. I stopped the testosterone till I get another Dr app but my concern is this Dr is not to knowledgable in TRT. Has anyone else experienced anxiety with TRT? Shouldn't ALL hormones be checked before starting therapy? Should DHEA be used while on TRT to support adrenalin glands?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
TRT = anxiety /panic attacks
- Thread starter brad
- Start date
Keep reading this board, learn.
Also
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
MacDonnell
New Member
Your body might be converting much of the gel to estradiol - If your estradiol is too high, you may very well get a lot of anxiety/panic. You should get a full hormone profile done to see where all your levels are first. Also, if you're just getting the androgel from a urologist, endocrinologist, internist, etc., he (or she) is not going to know about any of this stuff (unless he/she is cutting edge....Most of these guys are not). You may have to see someone like Shippen, Crisler, or Mariano. Like Jan said, however, you can learn a LOT from these boards! Don't get discouraged. You'll eventually find something that works for you. Sometimes it can take a LOT of time, though. It's taken me YEARS, but I'm finally on the right track! It was through these boards that I learned about Crisler and Mariano (who I see). They have both helped tremendously. Good luck, bud!
HeadDoc
Psychologist
Brad here's a reference to minimal blood work that should accompany assessment for TRT. There is a more than even chance that your panic is related to too low or too high estrodial. If your doc did not test it, ask him to do it. If he refuses, go over to lef.com and buy the male comprehensive panel. They will send a voucher and report the results back to you.
I had this problem after being on TRT for some time and suffered for a good 15 yrs with panic attacks in the middle of the night and during the day. I later found out it was my Estradiol was very high from being on TRT once I got this down on Arimidex I don't have them anymore.
Tell your Dr. to give you Androgel or Testim them patches are a pain they don't stay on you can't get to glue off and they leave a rash and with out some HC cream they don't heal.
Tell your Dr. to give you Androgel or Testim them patches are a pain they don't stay on you can't get to glue off and they leave a rash and with out some HC cream they don't heal.
Thanks for all the replies & info on estradiol . I just had a Dr Appointment yesterday with my primary who's been treating me for past 3 months with testosterone. My latest blood work still showed testosterone to be low & still have problems with testicles that stay elevated . She has given me a referal to a endocrine specialist for a complete work -up . I'm looking Fw to this appointment cause the mood swings & edginess is totally out of character for me. Thanks for the help & these boards are a great benefit to all aging men not just body builders.
MacDonnell
New Member
Good luck with your new endo. Don't be surprised if he isn't real "up" on this stuff either. Most of these guys know a lot about diabetes, and that's about it....Seriously! If they do know anything about male hormonal issues, their knowledge is obsolete...anything but cutting edge. Unfortunately, old ways of thinking re. these issues are not going to get you anywhere. For example, there are plenty of endos who might say that, with a total testosterone of 300 (on a 300-1000 scale), you are "normal." By now, you realize this is probably very far from the truth. So don't be disappointed if you end up with someone who thinks this way. The good news is, there ARE some doctors who DO specialize in this type of thing, or if they don't, they might be willing to listen to you and try various things. Let us know how things go.
Yep Endo's are not good Dr.'s for this and they did not get any info on it in Collage. You would be luck if the Endo you see is anygood. I will bet you he will tell you to stop TRT so he can retest you for a base line test if he does run from him all he will find out is how sick he will make you. I went down this road 7 times with 7 different Endo's.
An update on my Dr. APPOINTMENT.....WITHOUT BLOOD TEST RESULTS THE DR GUESSED MY PANIC /ANXIETY ATTACKS WERE FROM TOO HIGH A DOSE OF TESTOSTERONE 7.5MG I STOPPED TESTOSTERONE RIGHT AFTER THE ANXIETY/PANIC ATTACKS & THEY SUBSIDED
HE SENT ME FOR BLOOD WORK & STARTED ME ON 2.5MG TESTOSTERONE FOR A MONTH FOLLOWED BY BLOOD WORK. HE SAID HE HAD TO ESTABLISH A BASELINE FOR MY TREATMENT TO SEE WHAT DOSAGE WORKED BEST. I'M SUPPOSED TO KEEP NOTE OF HOW I FEEL & HE'LL ADJUST DOSAGE FROM THERE. HE SAID HE BASES TREATMENT MORE ON HOW THE PATIENT FEELS OVERALL MORE THAN THE ACTUAL BLOOD WORK NUMBERS
I ASKED ABOUT SUPPLEMENTING DHEA & HIS COMMENT WAS THAT DHEA WAS A HORMONE LOOKING FOR A DISEASE & HE ADVISED AGAINST USING IT.I'M SUPPOSED TO CHECK BACK WITH HIM 1ST WEEK IN JUNE FOR BLOOD TEST RESULTS & DOSAGE ADJUSTMENTS
HE SENT ME FOR BLOOD WORK & STARTED ME ON 2.5MG TESTOSTERONE FOR A MONTH FOLLOWED BY BLOOD WORK. HE SAID HE HAD TO ESTABLISH A BASELINE FOR MY TREATMENT TO SEE WHAT DOSAGE WORKED BEST. I'M SUPPOSED TO KEEP NOTE OF HOW I FEEL & HE'LL ADJUST DOSAGE FROM THERE. HE SAID HE BASES TREATMENT MORE ON HOW THE PATIENT FEELS OVERALL MORE THAN THE ACTUAL BLOOD WORK NUMBERS
I ASKED ABOUT SUPPLEMENTING DHEA & HIS COMMENT WAS THAT DHEA WAS A HORMONE LOOKING FOR A DISEASE & HE ADVISED AGAINST USING IT.I'M SUPPOSED TO CHECK BACK WITH HIM 1ST WEEK IN JUNE FOR BLOOD TEST RESULTS & DOSAGE ADJUSTMENTS
Well this is a dam low dose and I have said this many times here you can't treat low T without testing for high Estradiol levels. Sure you can stop the high levels of estradiol by low doesing T but then you end up in most cases with lower T then you started with so if your not feeling better doing this make it a point to test your Estradiol "E2" is it's high treat this first get it down to about 20 pg/ml then retest you might find your levels of T would come up. You can't get a base line test on this low of a dose. If he dose it will be a first that I have seen. Doing a low dose you brain can see this and stop sending the messages to your testis to make more T so you can end up lower then you started. High levels of E2 can cause panic attacks in he middle of the night. You can take a OTC Indolplex/DIM if you test to high for E2 or do Arimidex .25mgs every 3 days.
Doing low dose T to keep E2 down is for me a road to feeling worse you need to get your TT and FT levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your E2 levels down near 20 pg/ml this is what works.
Male Hormone Modulation Therapy.. HGH replacement, Testosterone Replacement
Doing low dose T to keep E2 down is for me a road to feeling worse you need to get your TT and FT levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your E2 levels down near 20 pg/ml this is what works.
Male Hormone Modulation Therapy.. HGH replacement, Testosterone Replacement
Yeah pmgramer 18...
I'm starting to believe that it's easier to keep arimidex stable and adjust T dosing to reach ideal levels.
For example, for me it seems Adex EoD seems to work best so I can do .25mg eod and dose T (2x/wk) whatever is necessary to attain ideal e2 levels.
Also can add in 100iu HCG along with .25mg Adex eod and dose T accordingly (2x/wk) to reach ideal levels.
Not sure if that makes sense but any thoughts on the matter?
I'm starting to believe that it's easier to keep arimidex stable and adjust T dosing to reach ideal levels.
For example, for me it seems Adex EoD seems to work best so I can do .25mg eod and dose T (2x/wk) whatever is necessary to attain ideal e2 levels.
Also can add in 100iu HCG along with .25mg Adex eod and dose T accordingly (2x/wk) to reach ideal levels.
Not sure if that makes sense but any thoughts on the matter?
For me... Even at 50mg (2x/wk) with no AI I am going to have high e2 symptoms.
Shbg is really the key.
I've always been low so I convert a lot to e and DHT so an AI is a necessity. It seems that on the third day it begins to wear off... So eod works best and I will adjust T accordingly.
And maybe some ROGAINE.
That... Or I could just accept my crappy Natty T levels.
Shbg is really the key.
I've always been low so I convert a lot to e and DHT so an AI is a necessity. It seems that on the third day it begins to wear off... So eod works best and I will adjust T accordingly.
And maybe some ROGAINE.
That... Or I could just accept my crappy Natty T levels.
Are you serious?!?! You feel a specialist in the endocrine system did not receive any education about the endocrine system in college?!? Well you are partly correct, they received it in medical school and internships, residency, etc. Boggles the mind how some people think in here...
My endo told me to take Adex 1mg everyday for seven straight days Ine week out of the month hahahah...
"Yes doc..."
I love him though I'm prescribed T + HCG + AI all covered under insurance plus labs...
But now it's up to me to find sweet spot and the HCG makes it a big time juggling act...
Forums have been of no help opinions vary so much...
Some say 875iu HCG a week...
Some say no HCG...
And everything in between...
I don't need Adex if on t only but throw HCG in the mix and I need it...
Nobody seems to be able to answer this question:
IS HCG NEEDED FOR AN OPTIMAL TRT PROTOCOL???
Will body produce enough Pregnenolone on its own?
I don't know... I get a good sense of well being from HCG good libido mental sharpness but the e2 spike SUCKS!!!
60/125iu/.25mg e3d
What do you guys think?
Trying to avoid ups and downs.
HCG gives me the worst roller coaster ride.
"Yes doc..."
I love him though I'm prescribed T + HCG + AI all covered under insurance plus labs...
But now it's up to me to find sweet spot and the HCG makes it a big time juggling act...
Forums have been of no help opinions vary so much...
Some say 875iu HCG a week...
Some say no HCG...
And everything in between...
I don't need Adex if on t only but throw HCG in the mix and I need it...
Nobody seems to be able to answer this question:
IS HCG NEEDED FOR AN OPTIMAL TRT PROTOCOL???
Will body produce enough Pregnenolone on its own?
I don't know... I get a good sense of well being from HCG good libido mental sharpness but the e2 spike SUCKS!!!
60/125iu/.25mg e3d
What do you guys think?
Trying to avoid ups and downs.
HCG gives me the worst roller coaster ride.
foreveryoung
New Member
Explain this concern about pregnenolone, I've never worried about it every before
I just found, the same as you, that Hcg causes a ton of problems
I just found, the same as you, that Hcg causes a ton of problems
I can't and wont explain it scientifically... But there is something the HCG does that is beneficial to the mind... And it keeps natural pathways running. Pregnenolone is where it all starts. Testis are largest producer of Pregnenolone.
That being said it may not be worth the estrogen effects.
It could also be much more beneficial to secondary than primary... I really don't know.
Id be curious to know your levels given your t only protocol.
The different opinions about HCG is startling.
T only sounds so incredible though man... I really dislike HCG.
Mentally I feel sharper after a shot though.
That being said it may not be worth the estrogen effects.
It could also be much more beneficial to secondary than primary... I really don't know.
Id be curious to know your levels given your t only protocol.
The different opinions about HCG is startling.
T only sounds so incredible though man... I really dislike HCG.
Mentally I feel sharper after a shot though.
foreveryoung
New Member
I don't know about the "pregnenolone" theory
and I also don't necessarily agree with the comment "hcg is beneficial to the mind"
in my experience, hcg causes all kinds of trouble, mind included, there is a roller coaster ride so there might be moments one feels elated and thinks it's a benefit of hcg, but overall the feelings are not good and bad far outweighs the good
and I also don't necessarily agree with the comment "hcg is beneficial to the mind"
in my experience, hcg causes all kinds of trouble, mind included, there is a roller coaster ride so there might be moments one feels elated and thinks it's a benefit of hcg, but overall the feelings are not good and bad far outweighs the good
