TRT bloodwork question, how long to get into normal range after blasting

billdobaggins

New Member
HI guys, wonder if any of you smart TRT guys who may have gone through this could help me out.

I have a script for test cyp for 100mg;but for a few months been at 500mg an injection twice weekly.
Now I am doing some bloodwork and with it is a testosterone level to see if I should bump up my dosage. Which would be totally out of whack if I was o tae it immediately. Would like my bloodwork to show my true blood levels reflected of taking the prescribed 100mg/week

Last 500mg shot was Sunday 13days ago.
I am thinking that on Monday coming up (15 days later after my last shot), I resume the 100mg weekly shot and continue that for 3 weeks with the bloodwork immediately preceding the scheduled 100mg shot allowing 1 week since the previous dose

Do you guys think that given approximately 5 weeks that my high dosage will have no impact on my bloodwork level? If not, please enlighten as to your thinking.
Thanks in advance and any other solution you can profer would be helpful

happy new year
 
If you look at the two attached graphs, you will see that a dose of 100 mg weekly will ultimately result in a stable peak blood level of 298 mg. This assumes an effective half-life for Testosterone Cypionate of 12 days.

Your super high dose of 500 mg 2X/week reaches a stable peak of 2659 mg based on the same assumptions.

You can see that for the level to drop from 2659 to 298, will take a little over 5 weeks. BTW, these levels are not the same units as your standard blood work.

If you are working with a new doctor, it is ill-advised to arbitrarily boost your dosage. The reason for testing is to determine what quantity of exogenous T will result in therapeutic levels in your blood. I would recommend that you follow the rules at first so proper dosing can be determined.

What you do after that is up to you.
 

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Thats extremely helpful Profbush and pretty much confirms my halflife calculations that I had done which suggested that it would take longer than what people were telling me at other boards. They were saying, all the test is gone by 2 weeks. I know clinically the rule of thumb is that drugs are effectively eliminated after 4-5 half-lives.
So from my readings the enanthate ester has a half life of approximately six days regardless of what is attached to it. I am looking at 24-30 days to eliminate 94-97% from my body.

I am not sure where people were basing that it would be out of my system in two weeks, but I assume b/c people are always told that you should start PCT 2 weeks after last injection (with a test enanthate/cypionate based cycle) and they seem to assume at that point the testosterone is fully cleared, which in reality it would only be 75-80% cleared based on a six day half life meaning in two weeks would be 2 and 1/3 half lives in terms of time.
Half-lives
% of drug eliminated from body

1 half life 50%
2 half life 75 day 12
3 half life 87.5%
4 half life 93.75%
5 half life 96.875%
6 half life 98.474%
7 half life 99.25%

Plus, while my last 500mg injection may be only 25% remaining there is the matter of the previous injections that are also contributing to my test blood levels that are in the 3rd (12.5% remaining uncleared) and 4th half lives (6.25% remaining) themselves. Simplistic as this is, it would mean about 40-45% of [500mg injection(s)] is still uncleared (25% + 12.5% + 6.25%= 43.75%). Point being, a far cry from "fully cleared" after 2 weeks. In fact, that may point to waiting longer to start PCT than just 2 weeks after last injection but thats another issue and since I am TRT I am no expert on other considerations going into that recommendation, but I do think it has mislead the others giving me advice as 45% of 500mg is the equivalent of a 225mg injection.

Which is still more than double my TRT dose of 100mg. BUT if I wait another half life or approximately 3 weeks. I will halve that at 112.mg equivalent. That would approximate me what I should be at had just been taking 100mg/week all along in my calculations hold if I was to not inject for 3 weeks. Of course that would not reflect the half life of a previous week's 100mg shot. If my goal is to obtain an accurate reflection of having followed 100mg/week protocol all along, I would need to have that approximately 50mg remaining (slightly less than 50% remaining after a six day half life clearance subtracted) from the previous week's 100mg injection.

That is my logic in restarting 100mg/week after 2 weeks rather than 3 weeks so that- that is contributed to my blood levels. Then continue that for another 3 weeks before taking my bloodwork.
Fortunately, I can non-chalantly stall the bloodwork as I am awaiting sleep study results which gives me a good reason not to rush back in for my next appointment as I normally would in 1 week.

As for him being a new primary doctor. He's not but I never did my second bloodwork after increasing from 100mg/q 2 weeks to 100mg/q-weekly. I do however, would like to have an accurate test so that I do know what my best TRT dose is which he would like to see it at least over 600ng/dL he stated. And also, I work with him professionally and so it would make me uncomfortable for him to know that I am what could be technically argued "abuse" of this prescription that he is writing (a portion of- at least). He may not give a flying leap as its not like this an opiate or other where there is a huge emphasis in this community to stamp out prescription drug abuse requiring signing contracts and drugtesting. But it may raise an eyebrow with my professionalism as well as the fact that I have a great deal of latitude in terms of managing my medications such as, for example, requesting vicoprofen for a shoulder injury for a PRN basis and to take before my cardio sessions (back and shoulder pain) and easily getting it unlike most patients would get b/c he knows I am not going to sell them or abuse them. And another med that I am familiar and he's not that I take for off-label use. I dont want to lose that latitude with an obviously way too elevated test level!

Thanks for your help, it helps validate my thinking. Sometimes Ive calculated something and totally forgot an obvious factor so feedback is very useful for me.
So thats why I am being a bit anal about this

Also, my lengthy explanation for my thinking may help the next guy in the same boat as I am in the future. Didnt find an exact scenario in my searches and this board seems to have a bit more scientific-minded members and admin so I posted my thinking here
Here's to a great new year!
 
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Also, Prof, your examples are generated by what looks like a program called Testo Sim v 1.0
Is that a program of yours? Where can I get a copy of that, it looks very very useful. Thanks
 
It is a very useful program that I downloaded from the Internet. If you can't find it, PM me with your email address and I will send it to you as an attachment. It is about 1.7 MB zipped.
 
Also, Prof, your examples are generated by what looks like a program called Testo Sim v 1.0
Is that a program of yours? Where can I get a copy of that, it looks very very useful. Thanks

It is a very useful program that I downloaded from the Internet. If you can't find it, PM me with your email address and I will send it to you as an attachment. It is about 1.7 MB zipped.


I do not vouch for its accuracy or reliability, but here is a link - PCT Calculator | Post Cycle Therapy Calculator .
 
Thanks again Prof Bush and Michael for the link, I'll take the accuracy with a grain of salt, I'm not relying solely on these ponderings to ensure proper blood results as I am going to write my own lab order and have the results sent to my office prior to any bloodwork for him so not leaving it to chance. So no worries on the accuracy front.
I am certain that 5 weeks out from my last 500 mg injection would be plenty of time to return to the proper levels, Id be shocked if they were over 1000ng/dL I am betting around 400-600ng/dL for myself. But its so easy to check beforehand for a bit of peace of mind and just sheer curiousity.

For background some may wonder why I never went back for the secod bloodwork after starting the testosterone and increasing my dose to 100mg/week.
Well, I had already been on 100mg injection every second week of test cypionate with only slight improvement in "feeling terrible" department and I was just grew impatient with the lack of progress and the far less than aggressive "standard approach" to therapy starting with the lowest amount needed and taking a slow timetable to do this.
I was suffering from near debilitating fatigue, depressed mood, depressed affect, poor cognitive function and decreased verbal ability, zero sex drive of which complaints from my new wife is what prompted me to get tested in the first place (we werent intimate before marriage) and she was even upset and wondering if the marriage was a mistake etc...And a variety of other dysfunctions, if you see a list of hypogonadism, I had nearly the complete list.
When my initial bloodwork came back, for perspective the normal reference range is 250-850ng/dL, mine was below the cutoff for listing and was displayed as simply <20ng/dL. No wonder I had been having so many symptoms (that I ignored for far too long).

So I was chomping at the bit to get back to feeling good again and since I had researched that it could take up to 3-6 months to recover my cognitive function once my testosterone is back in the normal range. I decided to up my dose 400mg/week then 500mg. Not for some aspiration to look like Mr Universe, but to ameliorate my human condition/psyche. To that end, it worked amazingly well, its amazing actually to look back how I got along or even function before testosterone replacement. The 1000mg/week I had recently been taken was short term for some experimentation and some muscle building. Although overall, there was not much improvement over 500mg/week dose but with some back acne and some other sides. I have an unlimited supply of testosterone so that is not an issue for the higher dose but who needs additional side effects with little return to balance the scale.

Well for what its worth in terms of making a useful thread for others in the future. I'll post my bloodwork in 3 weeks, both the unofficial bloodwork I'll do and also a few days later, the official bloodwork for my primary. And just for real-world nformational purposes, if I decide to increase my dose up past my TRT dose after this bloodwork, I'll redo my bloodwork every week or 10 days to see how it goes up. Or if its recommended to increase my TRT dose, I'll stick with that, get it retested and may fiddle with my dose and do bloodwork after that. I regretted not tracking my blood levels when I started so this will give me a fresh opportunity and Ill post it here. And some may ask why even include your primary physician in this if you are going to do my own thing anyhow. Thats a valid question, in my case, this is a valid medical condition and since testosterone is a controlled substance, I must follow a modicum of proper procedure so I am able to demonstrate for legal, medical, insurance or other reasons why I am taking a controlled substance. As I frequently travel overseas, it's also necessary. I have had to chuckle at all the "how do I fly with my gear" threads I've seen for guys who don't have a valid prescription and I dont find this bloodwork stuff a pain in the butt either, to the contrary it's very interesting and easy to do.

Cheers
 
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Go to privateMDlabs.com. get the deluxe male panel. You get the results 2 business days from your draw. You can get the whole thing done in a few days. If your levels are to high delay your appointment. If they are to low you can do your 100 mg a few days before your doc appt.
 
Go to privateMDlabs.com. get the deluxe male panel. You get the results 2 business days from your draw. You can get the whole thing done in a few days. If your levels are to high delay your appointment. If they are to low you can do your 100 mg a few days before your doc appt.


Good addition to the thread for people that dont have a primary doctor and want to know. Fortunately I can write my own lab request and walk across the medical loop to a Quest labs and have the results faxed to my office. But I like the new trend to move away from costly lab tests. This is a great article from CNN explaining the benefits and cost savings. Good read for anyone.
Doctors slash patients' lab-test costs - CNN.com

They mention prepaidlabs.com which is 2$ cheaper on the total testosterone test but overall they look nearly identical in nature. Ive never used them but most people who read this thread wont have the easy route I can take so I am glad its in this thread.



jtmoy19607 said:
What is the normal range in mg?

Well ng = NANOgrams~~ so alot smaller than a MILLIgram
And dL is the abbreviation for DECIliter and that is 1/10 of a liter
So you are talking about just doing some conversions like you learned in chemistry (hopefully)

nano is the prefix and in this case, it means 1/billionth of a gram or 1/1,000,000,000 of a gram
milli is a prefix and means 1/1000th of a gram

So 1 mg contains 1 million nanograms or rewritten 1mg = 1,000,000 ng
1 nanogram= 0.000001mg

So to answer the question: The normal range is 250ng/dL to 850 ng/dL
Which converted would be .00025 mg to .00085mg located in 1/10 of a liter
 
Bumping this blast from the past back into existence upon doing some research. Good info in here an figured id bring it back to life for all to see....
 
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