MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Trump Timeline ... Trumpocalypse
- Thread starter CdnGuy
- Start date
Good news, America. Russia helped install your president. But although he owes his job in large part to that help, the president did not conspire or collude with his helpers. He was the beneficiary of a foreign intelligence operation, but not an active participant in that operation. He received the stolen goods, but he did not conspire with the thieves in advance.
This is what the Trump administration and its enablers in Congress and media are already calling exoneration.But it offers no reassurance to Americans who cherish the independence and integrity of their political process.
The question unanswered by the attorney general’s summary of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report is: Why? Russian President Vladimir Putin took an extreme risk by interfering in the 2016 election as he did. Had Hillary Clinton won the presidency, the most likely outcome, Russia would have been exposed to fierce retaliation by a powerful adversary. The prize of a Trump presidency must have glittered alluringly indeed to Putin and his associates. Why?
Did they admire Donald Trump’s anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-ally, pro-Assad, pro-Putin ideology?
Were they attracted by his contempt for the rule of law and dislike of democracy?
Did they hold compromising information about him, financial or otherwise?
Were there business dealings in the past, present, or future?
Or were they simply attracted by Trump’s general ignorance and incompetence, seeing him as a kind of wrecking ball to be smashed into the U.S. government and U.S. foreign policy?
Many public-spirited people have counted on Robert Mueller to investigate these questions, too, along the narrowly criminal questions in his assignment. Perhaps he did, perhaps he did not; we will know soon, either way.But those questions have always been the important topics.
The Trump presidency from the start has presented a national-security challenge first, a challenge to U.S. public integrity next. But in this hyper-legalistic society, those vital inquiries got diverted early into a law-enforcement matter. ...
Notice how much of a low intelligence human you have to be in order to say "Trump was not exonerated of obstruction". How does one prove a negative? The utter lack of common sense is comical. "Hey you stole my wallet...now prove you didn't". The amount of absolute ignorance you need to have to peddle this bullshit is astronomical.
1/ Thread: With Barr having delivered a bare bones summary of the Mueller report to Congress, let’s remember that what we already knew about Trump is so terrible that any other president would have been impeached and removed from office.
2/ Trump directed his attorney to commit criminal campaign finance violations for which the attorney has been sentenced to jail.
Likely as part of the apparent cover up of that criminality, Trump omitted his debt to Cohen for the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels from...
3/ his financial disclosure report. That’s a crime if done knowingly and willfully — and who really doubts that it was? His attorney asked that he be excused from signing the certification in that financial disclosure report in which he was required to attest that it was true.
4/ Trump’s inaugural committee is under investigation for possibly accepting money from foreign actors, possibly giving favors in exchange for money, possible false statements, and likely allowing the Trump Organization to overcharge for services, so Trump could pocket the money.
5/ The New York Times dropped a bombshell accusing Trump of participating in a tax fraud scheme.
Trump fired both the FBI Director and the Attorney General for allowing him to be investigated.
6/ Trump has called for yet another investigation of his vanquished political rival, expressly as a misdirected act of revenge for the special counsel investigation.
He pressured the Postmaster General to retaliate against Amazon as an act of revenge against Jeff Bezos.
7/ Trump called for DOJ to block the AT&T and Time Warner merger as an act of revenge against CNN. In fact, DOJ did try to block that merger without offering the public satisfactory evidence to show that Trump’s demand didn’t influence its action.
8/ Trump’s campaign manager was convicted, a top campaign aide, his National Security Advisor, and one of his foreign affairs advisors pled guilty to crimes.
9/ Trump called for Russia to obtain and release his rival’s emails shortly before they did. He dictated a false account of a meeting between his son and Russian operatives in his building.
10/ After years of working with a campaign that had featured “lock her up” as a recurring refrain, Jared Kushner is illegally using WhatsApp to communicate with foreign actors outside the view of U.S. authorities.
11/ Ivanka Trump also continues to violate federal records laws — not that this has stopped Trump from leading recent cheers of “lock her up.”
12/ Trump has committed nepotism in the White House and has put national security at risk by interceding in the denial of security clearances for his daughter and son-in-law.
13/ There is reason to suspect that the conflicts of interest of the Trump and Kushner families may be influencing government policies, ranging from the cover up and non-response to the Khashoggi murder, foot dragging on Russia sanctions, efforts to lift sanctions on...
14/ individuals connected to the Russian government, the blockade of Qatar, cancelling the move of FBI’s headquarter, etc.
15/ Trump has monetized the presidency, frequently touting his properties and engaging in pay to play with the members and clientele of his clubs and hotels. Access to government is indisputably for sale in this administration.
16/ There have been suspicions of money laundering activity before he came into the federal government, which warrant investigation. While some have said that business activity before coming into federal office is off limits, they seem to be conveniently forgetting...
17/ that the White Water investigation into the Clintons (which was bigger, costlier and noisier than the Special Counsel investigation into Trump) was about business activities before coming into federal office.
18/ He has told over 8,000 documented lies or misleading statements to the American people. He has put children in cages and made no effort to track their family affiliations so they could be returned safely, letting his administration speak instead of “deterrence.”
19/ This isn’t even everything, but it makes the point that the Mueller report is a drop in the bucket.
Thread by @waltshaub: "1/ Thread: With Barr having delivered a bare bones summary of the Mueller report to Congress, let’s remember that what we already knew about […]"
2/ Trump directed his attorney to commit criminal campaign finance violations for which the attorney has been sentenced to jail.
Likely as part of the apparent cover up of that criminality, Trump omitted his debt to Cohen for the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels from...
3/ his financial disclosure report. That’s a crime if done knowingly and willfully — and who really doubts that it was? His attorney asked that he be excused from signing the certification in that financial disclosure report in which he was required to attest that it was true.
4/ Trump’s inaugural committee is under investigation for possibly accepting money from foreign actors, possibly giving favors in exchange for money, possible false statements, and likely allowing the Trump Organization to overcharge for services, so Trump could pocket the money.
5/ The New York Times dropped a bombshell accusing Trump of participating in a tax fraud scheme.
Trump fired both the FBI Director and the Attorney General for allowing him to be investigated.
6/ Trump has called for yet another investigation of his vanquished political rival, expressly as a misdirected act of revenge for the special counsel investigation.
He pressured the Postmaster General to retaliate against Amazon as an act of revenge against Jeff Bezos.
7/ Trump called for DOJ to block the AT&T and Time Warner merger as an act of revenge against CNN. In fact, DOJ did try to block that merger without offering the public satisfactory evidence to show that Trump’s demand didn’t influence its action.
8/ Trump’s campaign manager was convicted, a top campaign aide, his National Security Advisor, and one of his foreign affairs advisors pled guilty to crimes.
9/ Trump called for Russia to obtain and release his rival’s emails shortly before they did. He dictated a false account of a meeting between his son and Russian operatives in his building.
10/ After years of working with a campaign that had featured “lock her up” as a recurring refrain, Jared Kushner is illegally using WhatsApp to communicate with foreign actors outside the view of U.S. authorities.
11/ Ivanka Trump also continues to violate federal records laws — not that this has stopped Trump from leading recent cheers of “lock her up.”
12/ Trump has committed nepotism in the White House and has put national security at risk by interceding in the denial of security clearances for his daughter and son-in-law.
13/ There is reason to suspect that the conflicts of interest of the Trump and Kushner families may be influencing government policies, ranging from the cover up and non-response to the Khashoggi murder, foot dragging on Russia sanctions, efforts to lift sanctions on...
14/ individuals connected to the Russian government, the blockade of Qatar, cancelling the move of FBI’s headquarter, etc.
15/ Trump has monetized the presidency, frequently touting his properties and engaging in pay to play with the members and clientele of his clubs and hotels. Access to government is indisputably for sale in this administration.
16/ There have been suspicions of money laundering activity before he came into the federal government, which warrant investigation. While some have said that business activity before coming into federal office is off limits, they seem to be conveniently forgetting...
17/ that the White Water investigation into the Clintons (which was bigger, costlier and noisier than the Special Counsel investigation into Trump) was about business activities before coming into federal office.
18/ He has told over 8,000 documented lies or misleading statements to the American people. He has put children in cages and made no effort to track their family affiliations so they could be returned safely, letting his administration speak instead of “deterrence.”
19/ This isn’t even everything, but it makes the point that the Mueller report is a drop in the bucket.
Thread by @waltshaub: "1/ Thread: With Barr having delivered a bare bones summary of the Mueller report to Congress, let’s remember that what we already knew about […]"
Obstruction of justice is complicated. Here's how Trump can be let off by Justice Department but could be impeached or even convicted by Congress. It's about standards.
Barr applied DOJ standard to obstruction: proof beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction at trial. (Granted, DOJ says presidents can't be charged let alone tried in office.)
Obstruction has 3 elements, all of them have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt: "obstructive" conduct; conduct had "nexus" to a proceeding; the person acted with "corrupt intent."
Barr essentially says #3 can't proven beyond a reasonable doubt—need all three proven—because there's no "underlying crime," i.e. Trump wasn't guilty of something, so he can't be guilty of trying to stop being proven guilty.
Were #1 and #2 proven beyond a reasonable doubt? If yes, is it OK for any president to fire investigators or promise pardons all to protect himself, just because the president didn't break another law already?
Congress doesn't have to apply the same DOJ standard. "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" is to prevent the government from easily depriving people of liberty. Impeachment and conviction do no such thing, no one has a right to be president.
Thread by @justinjm1: "Obstruction of justice is complicated. Here's how Trump can be let off by Justice Department but could be impeached or even convicted by Con […]"
Barr applied DOJ standard to obstruction: proof beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction at trial. (Granted, DOJ says presidents can't be charged let alone tried in office.)
Obstruction has 3 elements, all of them have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt: "obstructive" conduct; conduct had "nexus" to a proceeding; the person acted with "corrupt intent."
Barr essentially says #3 can't proven beyond a reasonable doubt—need all three proven—because there's no "underlying crime," i.e. Trump wasn't guilty of something, so he can't be guilty of trying to stop being proven guilty.
Were #1 and #2 proven beyond a reasonable doubt? If yes, is it OK for any president to fire investigators or promise pardons all to protect himself, just because the president didn't break another law already?
Congress doesn't have to apply the same DOJ standard. "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" is to prevent the government from easily depriving people of liberty. Impeachment and conviction do no such thing, no one has a right to be president.
Thread by @justinjm1: "Obstruction of justice is complicated. Here's how Trump can be let off by Justice Department but could be impeached or even convicted by Con […]"
Where ya been bro? Good to see you back!!...LOL. So silent in here..wonder why?
We cannot yet see the report Special Counsel Robert Mueller submitted to Attorney General William Barr last Friday. But we can see its shadow in the four-page letter Barr sent to the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees on Sunday afternoon.
That letter will be touted as vindication by President Trump and his supporters, but will do little to bridge the partisan divide over Mueller’s nearly two-year investigation, and will inspire more vociferous demands to release the entire report.
Barr’s letter thoroughly quelled some of the fondest hopes of the anti-Trump “Resistance.” The letter revealed that Mueller closed his investigation without recommending more criminal charges, and that there are no further indictments under seal, as some had speculated. That’s a great relief for Trump and his family and associates, but it’s not the end of their federal criminal jeopardy. Barr also pointed out that Mueller “referred several matters to other offices for further action.”
For instance, the special counsel sent the investigation of Michael Cohen’s hush-money payments to Stormy Daniels to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, which secured Cohen’s guilty plea for federal campaign-finance violations. That office is still actively investigating the matter—we know this because it carefully redacted the details of the investigation when it released the Cohen search warrants last week. But the special counsel’s investigation was the most prominent legal threat to the president and his family, and its closure without further indictments is a major victory for him.
Next, Barr reported that the special counsel concluded that Russia attempted to interfere with the 2016 presidential election. That interference involved disinformation campaigns, efforts to sow “social discord” online, and hacking the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party and distributing misappropriated emails through Wikileaks.
But crucially, Mueller reported that his investigation “did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” whether expressly or tacitly. To use the popular cable-news vernacular, Mueller did not establish “collusion.” (Never mind that “collusion” is not a legal term, and that the special counsel’s mission was to investigate “links and/or coordination” with the Russians.)
Trump’s triumphant supporters notwithstanding, we don’t yet know what that means. When a prosecutor says that an investigation “did not establish” something, that doesn’t mean they concluded it didn’t happen, or even that they don’t believe it happened. It means the investigation didn’t produce enough information to prove that it happened.
Without seeing Mueller’s full report, we don’t know whether this was a firm conclusion about lack of coordination or a frank admission of insufficient evidence. The difference is meaningful, both as a matter of history and because it may determine how much further Democrats in Congress are willing to push committee investigations of the matter.
The other big reveal in Barr’s letter is that Mueller “determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment” about whether the President has obstructed justice in the course of the two-year investigation of Russian interference in the election. Instead, Mueller laid out the relevant evidence “on both sides” of the issue but did not resolve what the special counsel saw as the “difficult issues” of fact and law concerning “whether the President’s actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction.” Mueller’s report “does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it does not exonerate him.” Mueller punted.
Why would Mueller spend so much time investigating obstruction of justice but not reach a conclusion? We won’t know until we read his report. But Robert Mueller, a career G-Man, is fundamentally legally conservative. That means he has a narrow view of his own role and a healthy respect for the authority of the other branches of government.
He may believe that the evaluation is so inherently political that no conclusion he could offer would ever be seen as legitimate, and the matter is better resolved through Congress’s constitutional authority to impeach (or not) the president. Even if Mueller didn’t make an explicit recommendation, we’ll probably be able to infer his conclusions by reviewing how he marshalled the evidence for and against guilt. Prosecutors, as a rule, are not good at neutral renditions of facts.
Barr wrote an unsolicited memo to Rosenstein arguing that Mueller’s investigation was “fatally misconceived” to the extent it was premised on Trump firing former FBI Director James Comey or trying to convince Comey to drop the investigation of Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national-security adviser. Barr’s memo was a forceful exposition of the legal argument that the president cannot obstruct justice be exercising certain core powers like hiring or firing staff or directing the course of executive branch investigations. ...
It’s impossible to evaluate the results of Mueller’s investigation—and their legal, political, and historical significance—without the details.
I avoid giving this forum any type of meaningful engagement since there isn't much to be had here. This place is not what it used to be.
Attorney General William Barr’s decision to release a summary of the twin Robert Mueller conclusions in the special prosecutor’s still-secret report—no collusion between the Russian government and the Trump campaign and Mueller’s punt on whether Trump obstructed justice—leaves open many questions that cannot be answered until the Department of Justice releases the report itself.
At the top of my list of unanswered questions is why Mueller declined to prosecute former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort or Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. for violating laws prohibiting the solicitation of foreign contributions to American campaigns, based on those campaign surrogates’ June 2016 meeting with Russian agents at Trump Tower.
How Mueller answered this question could have profound ramifications for what federal law enforcement will do to stop foreign involvement in the upcoming 2020 elections.
By unilaterally concluding that Trump did not obstruct justice, the attorney general has made it imperative that the public see the Mueller report.
But the critical part of the letter is that it now creates a whole new mess. After laying out the scope of the investigation and noting that Mr. Mueller’s report does not offer any legal recommendations, Mr. Barr declares that it therefore “leaves it to the attorney general to decide whether the conduct described in the report constitutes a crime.” He then concludes the president did not obstruct justice when he fired the F.B.I. director, James Comey.
Such a conclusion would be momentous in any event. But to do so within 48 hours of receiving the report (which pointedly did not reach that conclusion) should be deeply concerning to every American.
The special counsel regulations were written to provide the public with confidence that justice was done. It is impossible for the public to reach that determination without knowing two things. First, what did the Mueller report conclude, and what was the evidence on obstruction of justice? And second, how could Mr. Barr have reached his conclusion so quickly?
Mr. Barr’s letter raises far more questions than it answers, both on the facts and the law.
...
Sometimes momentous government action leaves everyone uncertain about the next move. This is not one of those times. Congress now has a clear path of action. It must first demand the release of the Mueller report, so that Americans can see the evidence for themselves. Then, it must call Mr. Barr and Mr. Mueller to testify. Mr. Barr in particular must explain his rationale for reaching the obstruction judgment he made.
No one wants a president to be guilty of obstruction of justice. The only thing worse than that is a guilty president who goes without punishment. The Barr letter raises the specter that we are living in such times.
Attorney General William Barr’s summary of special counsel Robert Mueller’s report is already being interpreted in conflicting ways. In a letter to Congress on Sunday afternoon, Barr conveyed that Mueller “did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia” in the 2016 election.
According to Barr, on the question of whether President Donald Trump obstructed justice, the special counsel’s report neither concludes that the president committed a crime, nor exonerates him. But Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein concluded themselves, based on Mueller’s report, that there is not enough evidence to charge Trump with obstruction.
By Sunday evening, the president and his fans were celebrating. “No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!” tweeted @realDonaldTrump. But many of his critics argued that it is impossible to say whether Trump is wholly innocent without seeing the underlying information in Mueller’s report—not to mention that other investigations into Trump’s dealings are ongoing.
So, what should we believe now that we’ve gotten a glimpse into Mueller’s findings? Politico Magazine surveyed some of the smartest legal minds out there—prosecutors, professors and more—and asked: Is the president in the clear? Here’s what they told us.
MUELLER’S BABY
https://claytoonz.com/2019/03/24/muellers-baby/
This is a good day for Donald Trump and his supporters. Not because he’s innocent, or there was no collusion or obstruction, or that he’s been exonerated. It’s a good day because they will win the spin.
Already, they’re lying about what the Mueller Report says. They’re claiming exoneration when the report is clear he hasn’t been exonerated.
What makes me feel more dejected than the Republican spin is that the nation will now be too tired to hold Trump accountable for anything. Being tired is no reason to give up fighting for your nation.
Here are facts; The decision not to pursue charges of obstruction was made by William Barr, Trump’s AG appointee who has made statements against the investigation. Russia stole from the DNC and the Clinton campaign. Russia offered help to Trump. Trump asked them for their help. Trump’s team hosted Russians in Trump Tower with Donald Jr. saying, “I love it” when asked if he’d see what dirt they had on Clinton. At least 16 people in the Trump campaign met with Russians. Paul Manafort shared internal campaign polling with people connected to Russia. Donald Trump committed campaign fraud, has cheated on his taxes and stolen from charities. There are still at least 16 other investigations into Trump corruption. Trump was trying to work a deal with Russia during the campaign and lied about it. Trump was trying to bribe Vladimir Putin. Donald Trump is corrupt and he’s a moron.
One other fact; There will not be an impeachment. The only way to get rid of Trump now is to defeat him in 2020. No matter what is found on Trump, there will be no movement from Republicans for oversight or doing what’s responsible and best for the nation.
Today is a good day for Donald Trump. Today is a bad day for America.
https://claytoonz.com/2019/03/24/muellers-baby/
This is a good day for Donald Trump and his supporters. Not because he’s innocent, or there was no collusion or obstruction, or that he’s been exonerated. It’s a good day because they will win the spin.
Already, they’re lying about what the Mueller Report says. They’re claiming exoneration when the report is clear he hasn’t been exonerated.
What makes me feel more dejected than the Republican spin is that the nation will now be too tired to hold Trump accountable for anything. Being tired is no reason to give up fighting for your nation.
Here are facts; The decision not to pursue charges of obstruction was made by William Barr, Trump’s AG appointee who has made statements against the investigation. Russia stole from the DNC and the Clinton campaign. Russia offered help to Trump. Trump asked them for their help. Trump’s team hosted Russians in Trump Tower with Donald Jr. saying, “I love it” when asked if he’d see what dirt they had on Clinton. At least 16 people in the Trump campaign met with Russians. Paul Manafort shared internal campaign polling with people connected to Russia. Donald Trump committed campaign fraud, has cheated on his taxes and stolen from charities. There are still at least 16 other investigations into Trump corruption. Trump was trying to work a deal with Russia during the campaign and lied about it. Trump was trying to bribe Vladimir Putin. Donald Trump is corrupt and he’s a moron.
One other fact; There will not be an impeachment. The only way to get rid of Trump now is to defeat him in 2020. No matter what is found on Trump, there will be no movement from Republicans for oversight or doing what’s responsible and best for the nation.
Today is a good day for Donald Trump. Today is a bad day for America.
Special counsel Robert Mueller has submitted his report on the Russia investigation, and Republicans are gloating. They claim a four-page letter from Attorney General William Barr, purporting to summarize the report, exonerates President Donald Trump. They’re wrong. The letter says the Justice Department won’t prosecute Trump, but it reaches that conclusion by tailoring legal standards to protect the president. Here’s a list of Barr’s weasel words and what they’re hiding.
“The Russian government.” The letter quotes a sentence from Mueller’s report. In that sentence, Mueller says his investigation didn’t prove that members of the Trump campaign “conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” The sentence specifies Russia’s government. It says nothing about coordination with other Russians. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, gave campaign polling data to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate who has been https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/paul-manafort-shared-2016-polling-data-with-russian-employee-according-to-court-filing/2019/01/08/3f562ad8-12b0-11e9-803c-4ef28312c8b9_story.html (linked to Russian intelligence). Manafort, Donald Trump Jr., and Jared Kushner met secretly in Trump Tower with Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Kremlin-connected lawyer. But neither Kilimnik nor Veselnitskaya is part of the Russian government. They seem to be excluded from Barr’s analysis.
...
Attorney General William Barr’s summary of special counsel Robert Mueller’s report vindicates, without reservation, President Donald Trump's insistence that there was no collusion with the Russians regarding the 2016 campaign.
Clearing the president and his campaign of a provable conspiracy is a matter of law. But as a matter of national security, Barr’s letter does not clear up very much about the relationship between the Trump inner circle and the Russians, or about the behavior of the president himself.
There is unambiguous good news for the president in Barr’s letter. Most important, it means that on the central question Mueller was asked to investigate, there is no evidence to link the Trump campaign to the Russian government. This is not the same thing as saying that people in the Trump campaign were not involved in shady dealings with bad people, but it lays to rest — and for this we should all be thankful — the possibility that the president of the United States knowingly cooperated with an enemy government in seeking election.
This, however, is an odd finding and one that is difficult to square with how many people are in legal trouble for lying about this very issue. If there was no canoodling with the Russians, why was there so much lying? How did Mueller manage to unravel what looks like a tangle of deceptions about Russia — and then reach a conclusion that there was no collusion with the Russians?
Similar threads
Sponsors
Latest posts
-
-
Changland Technology Co., Ltd. (International, US domestic)- Latest: Spaceman Spiff
-
-
