Using HGH to lower SHBG

[frankwhardy]

I have high SHBG (60-65nmol/L on 3 different tests over the last year) but normal E2 (25-28pg/mL) and below normal %free T (45yrs old, normal weight). I've been looking for a while now for a way to lower the SHBG to see if that might help improve my T parameters (and my fatigue), and I just came across something that, in theory, sounds like a possible answer (not sure why I didn't see it sooner):

It appears there is an inverse correlation between Growth Hormone/IGF-1 levels and SHBG, and that supplementation with HGH can bring a high SHBG level down. I had my IGF-1 level checked and it is at the lower end of normal (106ng/mL), so I think I'll see if I can get my doctor to prescribe HGH. Has anyone used HGH (and at what dosage/frequency + any side effects?) and would you happen to have any before and after labs for your SHBG levels? Thanks,

Frank
Here is a PubMed abstract regarding the above:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1996 May;81(5):1821-6.

Influence of some biological indexes on sex hormone-binding globulin and androgen levels in aging or obese males.

Vermeulen A, Kaufman JM, Giagulli VA.

Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, University Hospital, Ghent, Belgium.

Several aspects of the regulation of androgen secretion and plasma levels in males remain controversial. Among these, we cite the problem of whether the age-related decrease in testosterone (T) levels is an intrinsic aging phenomenon or is a sequel of previous illness, the mechanisms underlying the increase in sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-binding capacity in aging men and the supranormal capacity observed immediately after a weight-reducing diet, and the role of insulin in the age-associated decrease in dehydroepiandrosterone (sulfate) [DHEA (DHEAS)] levels. To gain further insight into these issues, we investigated the influence of age, smoking, body mass index (BMI), serum albumin, insulin, GH, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, respectively, on androgen levels and SHBG-binding capacity in a nonobese healthy population (n = 250) as well as in an obese population (n = 50) before and after weight loss. The influence of GH supplementation on SHBG, DHEAS, DHEA, and insulin levels was studied in a small group of men (n = 8) with isolated GH deficiency. In nonobese healthy men, age was inversely correlated with serum levels of all androgens studied (although total T levels stayed relatively stable until age 55 yr) as well as with albumin, GH, and IGF-I levels and positively correlated with BMI, insulin levels, and SHBG-binding capacity. Nevertheless, SHBG levels were significantly negatively correlated with insulin levels (P < 0.001) as well as with mean 24-h GH and IGF-I levels. Among possible confounding factors affecting (free) T [(FT)] levels in healthy men, smoking appeared to be accompanied by higher (F)T levels than those in nonsmokers. BMI increased with age, but although BMI was negatively correlated with T, FT, and SHBG, respectively, the age-dependent decrease in T levels persisted after correction for BMI. Data not corrected for BMI may, nevertheless, overestimate the age-associated decrease in T levels. The albumin concentration decreased with age, and if FT is the feedback regulator of plasma T levels, albumin concentration might be a codeterminant (although, evidently, less important than SHBG) of T levels and contribute to the age-associated decrease in T levels. In any case, albumin concentration is a codeterminant of DHEAS concentration. T, DHEA, and DHEAS levels were significantly correlated, but this correlation disappeared after controlling for age; hence, there is no evidence for an adrenal-gonadal interaction in men. In obese men, T, FT, and SHBG levels were significantly lower than those in the nonobese men and inversely correlated with BMI; DHEAS levels were slightly lower than those in the nonobese controls, but no significant correlation between DHEA or DHEAS, and insulin levels was observed. After a weight-reducing, protein-rich diet, resulting in a mean weight loss of +/- 15 kg, SHBG-binding capacity increased to normal values notwithstanding the fact that the subjects were still obese and that the insulin levels remained higher than those in the nonobese controls. Considering that after weight loss, GH and IGF-I levels remained lower than those in the nonobese controls, that adult men with isolated GH deficiency presented with higher SHBG levels than normal controls, which decreased to normal levels during GH substitution, and that elderly men have elevated SHBG levels notwithstanding high insulin levels, we suggest that the low GH and/or IGF-I levels might play a role in the elevated SHBG levels observed in both elderly males and obese men after a weight-reducing diet. As weight loss did not influence DHEAS levels notwithstanding an important decrease in insulin levels, our data do not support a role of insulin in the regulation of plasma DHEAS levels.

PMID: 8626841 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[ciobl]

i don't know if your query got answred or not; just trying to contribute the best i can

there are a couple bros using hgh ( that i'm aware of ) on the board; maybe they can offer their experienced advice better than i can.

hgh levels go up at a faster rate from what i understand specially during sleep after any work out. these numbers 54 ; 44 and 1-3 is the pie , so 54 of its form belongs to shbg the 44 to albunim and some other proteins and the 1 to 3 yep : pure gold.

so for example, with a low fat low protein diet that shbg feels better than ever, she will not only grab what it belongs to her but will start eating that 1-3 of the pie and that 1-3 of the pie , the gold part, is what you need the most !

on the other hand try any ancillary drug to bring down that E and decrease shbg.

i remember head doc told me somethng like 'its a wonder drug but it's expensive' ( can't recall the exact wording ) but if you can afford it go right ahead.

stack yourself with oat garlic saw palmetto and saturated fatty acids and that t will take off i guarantee it. ( just my opinion )

 

[ciobl]

let me bump this for myself and clarify something i 've been reading for a long time.

and just off topic a little bit but related to it nonetheless

i am an advocate of mentzer principles not only from theoretical but from a direct practical experience; I have found the rest you allow yourself to recover between exercise stress to be an essential part that affect hgh igf levels tremendously.

remember that as with anything else there is a negative feedbakc loop involved and shbg is not an exception; so when levels reach its peak the organism starts shutting down until it regulates with signals the whole process with -other major glands ; with muscle and with blood.

so when your prolongue ( of course with the supplementation of test or any substance your body therefore will react differently or better put 'more efficiently' ) any exercise activity not only will deplete those hgh level if you don't allow yourself to a proper recovery but to fill up the tank not only will you pay more ( almost $3 a gallon last month ) but it will take longer to get those glycogen and amino acids stabilized.

 

[stat1951]

There was something I posted previously concerning a study done that showed that Stinging Nettles root extract (specifically from the root, not the plant) was demonstrated to have lowered SHBG and increased Free T.

If you can't locate it via the search feature, let me know and I'll dig it up.

Also it is my understanding that HGH is pretty expensive and that it can only be prescribed under very limited conditions (a lot of the anti-aging prescribing that has been going on apparently has been in violation of some older health law and enforcement has started picking up)...

From a very recent article:

Growth Hormone Deemed Illegal for Off-Label Antiaging Use - Medscape, 10/28/05 - "1988 and 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) make off-label distribution or provision of GH to treat aging or age-related diseases illegal in the U.S."

Oct. 28, 2005 — Growth hormone (GH) is illegal for off-label antiaging use, according to an article in the Oct. 26 issue of JAMA. This article reviews the literature concerning the uses and adverse effects of GH as well as the legal ramifications of selling, using, or prescribing it.

"Prescribing and administering GH has become a routine intervention in an industry that is variably called anti-aging, regenerative, longevity or age management medicine," lead author Thomas Perls, MD, MPH, from Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts, said in a news release. "Hundreds of thousands of patients who have received GH in recent years as a purported treatment for aging are unaware that they are receiving the drug illegally."... The FDA has approved GH only for GH deficiency-related syndromes causing short stature in children, adult GH deficiency caused by rare pituitary tumors and their treatment, and muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV and AIDS... "Off-label use for many drugs is a normal and accepted practice in medicine, but that is not true for growth hormone," says coauthor S. Jay Olshansky, PhD, from the University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health. "According to laws instituted by Congress more than 10 years ago, HGH can only be distributed for indications specifically authorized by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and aging and its related disorders are not among them. The use of HGH as an alleged antiaging intervention is a major public health concern not just because it is illegal, but also because its provision for antiaging is not supported by science and it is potentially harmful."... Although GH, unlike anabolic steroids, is not a schedule III drug, Congress specifically authorized the Drug Enforcement Agency to investigate offenses related to HGH distribution. The penalties for distribution or provision of GH for antiaging purposes may include up to five years in prison, or 10 years if the offense involves a minor, with fines of up to $250,000 for an individual or $500,000 for an organization, or alternatively, twice the gross gain or loss from the offense, in addition to forfeiture of property used in or derived from violations of the HGH law...

I believe that "Sunkist" recently posted something about the first 'anti aging' doctor being arrested for off label Rx of HGH...

Larry

 

[ciobl]

There was something I posted previously concerning a study done that showed that Stinging Nettles root extract (specifically from the root, not the plant) was demonstrated to have lowered SHBG and increased Free T.

If you can't locate it via the search feature, let me know and I'll dig it up.

you talked about it; someone from anabolic forum talked about it :

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134226775


hgh the real hgh, not otc supplements they claim with low maneuvering tactics to have it is indeed very expensive.

From a very recent article:
with fines of up to $250,000 for an individual or $500,000 for an organization, or alternatively, twice the gross gain or loss from the offense, in addition to forfeiture of property used in or derived from violations of the HGH law... [/I]

unbelievable.

I believe that "Sunkist" recently posted something about the first 'anti aging' doctor being arrested for off label Rx of HGH...

Sunkist ? next time i see him around i'll ask him. That bro is amazing, I listen to him a lot.

 

[ciobl]

stat -and yes you are right ( i forgot to add on the last post ) about nettle extract.

like i said saw palmetto and oats are essentials.

again ( from what i remember reading ) they used to say 'oh yeah, tribululs terrestri and horny weed and high melatonin' and thats a NO ! neither one of them.

and please do not misinterpret me what was said about melatonin, low doses help from what i was told. ( go back to the post about sleep and rest deprivation and you will know why low really low dose is recommended )

 

[Sunkist]

Guys, it wasn't me, but I'll be glad to help spring him if we put a gang together.

I am not above supping with hGH... but I am looking at secretagogues first. The T/ dopamine, hGH relationship is so interesting

Did ya catch the Nicotine / T interactions in the study? I have some other stuff on that. I am beginning to think FT is overrated, and there is a lot of interactions that differ from man to man in quantity, but are generalizable to our specie. Bottom line is achieving balance what ever that is for you. Anyhoah...

Speech:

All we can do is support TRT docs like Dr C, keep them covered by testing when they support us... remember they have to have decent records if there is ever a problem. Get vitals and bloods on schedule. And study, experiment and learn... and share. Studies are great... but I read in awe some of the self-stuff that members do there. TRT is a basis, but hormonal, chemical, mood interactions are the rest of health. I am thankful this week end for those that share and interact. We will prevail.

 

[ciobl]

sunkist who ? never heard of him, but there are rumors he sits on the shoulders of giants...

 

[stat1951]

you talked about it; someone from anabolic forum talked about it :

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134226775

hgh the real hgh, not otc supplements they claim with low maneuvering tactics to have it is indeed very expensive.

It was someone else talking about it at that link.... and of course I cannot locate that study on Nettles and lowering SHBG right off hand.

But in the meantime, here's segments from an article by a "Nelson Montana" that spells it out in somewhat more detail. His perspective is oriented towards the AAS using bodybuilder, but the conceptual basis is still the same 0 and meanwhile I'll keep looking for that study!

...Be that as it may, with all the use, and over-use of testosterone and other steroids, many enhanced bodybuilders don't grow much more than some natural athletes. Why? The answer to that question may turn out to be of immense importance, not only to chemically enhanced athletes, but those who are natural as well.

Follow the process of testosterone enhancement for a moment and the solution will start to become clear.

Injecting 200 milligrams of a drug like Testosterone Cypionate (a fairly low dose) will raise one's testosterone level by about 500 ngs (nanograms). That's 500 ngs above one's existing level. Most healthy men under the age of 50 have a testosterone level of between 400 to 900 ngs. What this means is, even if your T level is on the low side of 400, a mere 200 mg shot will shoot your testosterone above the upper normal range -- close to 1000! Now, anyone should be able to grow muscle with 1000 ngs of testosterone, yet time and time again, you see steroid users taking up to several times that amount and barely making gains. The reason for this is as simple as it is curious.

Most of the body's testosterone, whether it's produced in the testes or injected directly into the bloodstream via an external source, is kept in a "bound" state. In other words, it's unusable. Only a small portion of our total testosterone provides all the benefits while the remainder just floats around until it dissipates. That which is un-bound is known as "free" testosterone. And in the long run, that's the only stuff that counts.

What determines how much free testosterone we have at any given time is an enzyme known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin -- also known as SHBG. The more you have, the more testosterone will be kept in a bound state. The pesky little chemical is also the reason some guys hardly grow even while on high dosages of steroids. The more exogenous testosterone that enters your body, the more SHBG the body will produce. It's our body's way of maintaining homeostasis. It's also another reason why taking supraphysiological dosages of steroids isn't the wisest choice. The more you take, the more it binds, so at a certain point, most of it is just wasted....

This information also bears out reports that many pros don't take quite as much as one may think. The presumption is that in order to achieve that level of muscularity they need insane dosages but it's more likely that these lucky individuals simply have more favorable androgen receptors and lower SHBG than the average bodybuilder. To put it in comparative terms, if you were to take 1000 mgs of testosterone and your "free" T is 30, yet someone else takes only 500 mgs of testosterone (or none at all) and his free T is 40, he's going to kick your butt in a competition. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is.

Instead of taking more exogenous testosterone, it would make more sense to allow more of the testosterone we already have to become unbound. Unfortunately, the amount of SHBG you have is determined mostly by genetics and those individuals who have a lot of it will probably always remain "hardgainers." SHBG also increases with age. In spite of these drawbacks, there have been some fascinating findings that may be able to tilt the odds in your favor.

There are drugs, most notably Proviron and Winstrol, that have been shown to reduce SHBG, but of course, drug therapy cannot be maintained on a continual basis. Sooner or later you have to come off. The responsible, long term approach to lowering SHBG is through natural pathways and research in the area of herbology is showing positive results toward the goal of reducing bound testosterone.

It turns out that certain herbs which have purported to have aphrodisiac effects may do so, not through increased testosterone as once thought, not through any stimulation of the genitals, not even through some increased blood flow to the penis, but through the action of reducing SHBG. What's especially encouraging about these findings is the fact that more "Free T" will not cause the negative side effects of increased total testosterone. You'll still have the same amount of natural testosterone, only more of it will be available to impart its positive effects. Among those positive effects are improved mood, heightened libido, reduced risk of heart disease and what may be most intriguing to bodybuilders, the potential for more muscle growth!

One of the best indicators of Free T levels is frequency of morning erections since there are no psychological or stimulative factors involved. It's strictly a biological response and governed by one's health. Most young men experience this daily. Once a guy gets into his 40's, that pleasant morning surprise may not rear its head as often. (Pun intended). Regardless of what age you are, if you wake up more than two days in a row without an erection, or if it's weak or becomes flaccid within a minute of being awake, it's a safe bet to say your free T is down and progress in muscle development will be slow.

One promising cure to the lack of "wake up wood" is the herb Avena Sativa. Users report a substantial increase in morning erections while using this product. Such a reaction suggests that Avena Sativa may actually reduce Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Another anecdotal bit of evidence is the fact that some users complain of an outbreak of back acne. This, too, is a sign of an abrupt hormonal change not unlike what occurs during puberty or the beginning of a steroid cycle. The one drawback of Avena Sativa is that many commercial brands lack the active extract and it's the extract that makes it effective. When purchasing Avena Sativa, make sure it lists the percentage of "Avenacosides." It should be at least 5%. A daily dose of 500-1000 mgs may be just what you need to start the day off with a smile. Also, be aware of the old "bait and switch" tactic. There's one popular internet company that has used the active coside version of avena and naturally customers got good results. Then, they started putting the cheaper "non-coside" herbs into the formula. They even increased the total amount to make it look "new and improved" but of course more of the ineffective herb is meaningless. It's the cosides that count. The company in question even changed labels to "throw you off track." But coside percentages MUST BE STATED on the label... .com

Urtica Dioica, also known as Stinging Nettles, is an extremely interesting herb. It's not only been shown to reduce SHBG but it also lowers the female hormone prolactin. This is good news to anyone looking to stay lean and avoid the side effects of too much estrogen such as water retention and gynocemastia. Nettles has also been shown as an effective treatment for Benign Prostate Hypertrophy, due in part to the fact that it will suppress DHT (Dyhydrotestosterone). This is both good and bad. Although DHT is often referred to as the "bad" testosterone, it's also anabolic and necessary for libido and erectile function. So it may seem as if the use of Nettles may be working against your goals, but that's only if excessive dosages are used. (Over 500mgs a day)

It is, however, a better choice for the treatment of an enlarged prostate than the more common application of Saw Palmetto which just blocks DHT but provides no benefit in terms of lowering estrogen or SHBG -- both of which are also a factor in prostate health. When testosterone isn't bio-available to the body, it can still impart its negative effects on the prostate. By reducing SHBG, prostate disorders can be avoided while increasing free testosterone and potential muscle growth.



Larry

 

[stat1951]

Additional:

http://www.rain-tree.com/nettles.htm

Some of the more recent research on BPH and nettles indicates that nettle can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production.

They do cite a number of research references:

Schottner, M., et al. “Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).” Planta Med. 1997; 63(6): 529-32.

Hryb, D. J., et al. “The effect of extracts of the roots of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica) on the interaction of SHBG with its receptor on human prostatic membranes.” Planta Med. 1995; 61(1): 31-2. but not sure which one directly applies to this cited information.

Not sure of there's other studies there that might apply also...

Larry

 

[1cc]

Thanks Larry, great info!

 

[SWALE]

Supplementing 200mg of testosterone per week will elevate an adult male's serum T level by about 1000-1500ng/dL--much more than what Mr. Montana claims. A practical rule of thumb is that 200mg per week will take most men to twice the top of normal range.

 

[stat1951]

Supplementing 200mg of testosterone per week will elevate an adult male's serum T level by about 1000-1500ng/dL--much more than what Mr. Montana claims. A practical rule of thumb is that 200mg per week will take most men to twice the top of normal range.

Understood.

Not having any experience with AAS, I personally had no clue as to the accuracy of his Test Cyp administration claims or not. Main point in addressing the article was the segments that pertained to claims of SHBG lowering effects of Urtica dioica (Stinging Nettle) root extract.

I thought that I had bookmarked a fairly recent study that very definitely showed those results, but still haven't located it.

There are the two quoted studies (from above post):

Schottner, M., et al. Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). Planta Med. 1997; 63(6): 529-32.

Hryb, D. J., et al. The effect of extracts of the roots of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica) on the interaction of SHBG with its receptor on human prostatic membranes. Planta Med. 1995; 61(1): 31-2. but not sure which one directly applies to this cited information.

Unfortunately, neither of those ring a bell as to the one study that I am trying to recall...

But, no, would not recommend that 200 mg of Test Cyp be considered in normal TRT protocols... but article was obviously written from that AAS perspective, not a TRT perspective (which was why I wanted to make that clear in my Intro)...

Larry

 

[LiquidGib]

has any1 tried this supplements while keeping track of testosterone levels with blood tests?

 

[ciobl]

great article stat

 

[jwtex]

has any1 tried this supplements while keeping track of testosterone levels with blood tests?

I have been taking HGH, 1 iu every day for the last 6 years and have been on 100 mg of Test Cyp weekly for almost 5 years. My IGF-1 levels have always been at the top of range or above. My SHBGs were in the 60s and E2 levels were above range in the 60s. At that same time I was taking 800 mg of DIM daily with no reduction in E2. So I for one did not see any reduction in SHBG while on HGH. I started taking 25 mg of adex every other day with 250 mg of Nettle Root extract twice a day and both my E2 and SHBG dropped to lower range while both my total and free test went to maximum top of range. I think Nettle Root is a great adjunct to TRT if one has issues with SHBG & High E2. I still take the DIM but have reduced to 250 mg a day. My Last Blood work results were:

Total Test 850 ( 241-827)
Free TesT 28 (7-24)
E2 25 (0-54)
SHBG 30 ( 17-71)
IGF-1 412 (81-225)

I have reduced my HGH to .8 iu's daily as my IGF-1 went from 300 to above 410. I had recently started taking 3 to 4 mg of Deprenyl 6 days a week before my last blood test, so I do not know if that had an effect on my IGF-1 levels.

 

[1cc]

Jwtex,

Those are very nice numbers. How do you feel?

 

[love_en]

Good numbers. Must be great to be you. Props to your doctor.

 

[ciobl]

Did ya catch the Nicotine / T interactions in the study? I have some other stuff on that. I am beginning to think FT is overrated, and there is a lot of interactions that differ from man to man in quantity, but are generalizable to our specie. Bottom line is achieving balance what ever that is for you.

...sunkst ...i have a couple about nctine and t....cn't rembr whch foldr i put 'em at..give me a day and i'll dig 'em out for ya.

about ft...mayb its overrated..

 

[stat1951]

I have been taking HGH, 1 iu every day for the last 6 years and have been on 100 mg of Test Cyp weekly for almost 5 years. My IGF-1 levels have always been at the top of range or above. My SHBGs were in the 60s and E2 levels were above range in the 60s. At that same time I was taking 800 mg of DIM daily with no reduction in E2. So I for one did not see any reduction in SHBG while on HGH. I started taking 25 mg of adex every other day with 250 mg of Nettle Root extract twice a day and both my E2 and SHBG dropped to lower range while both my total and free test went to maximum top of range. I think Nettle Root is a great adjunct to TRT if one has issues with SHBG & High E2. I still take the DIM but have reduced to 250 mg a day. My Last Blood work results were:

Total Test 850 ( 241-827)
Free TesT 28 (7-24)
E2 25 (0-54)
SHBG 30 ( 17-71)
IGF-1 412 (81-225)

I have reduced my HGH to .8 iu's daily as my IGF-1 went from 300 to above 410. I had recently started taking 3 to 4 mg of Deprenyl 6 days a week before my last blood test, so I do not know if that had an effect on my IGF-1 levels.

Excellent posting on effects of nettles root extract. I have begun taking a bulk powder version of it (still a 10"1 extract ratio) and have noted that my Free T percentage levels have been in excellent ranges. Anyway, that seems like a very reasonable dose of Nettles. What brand are you taking?

Also, what brand of Deprenyl (I wasn't aware of a formulation that small). Have you noticed feeling any different since the addition of Deprenyl? Do you take it by itself or with the addition of DPLA?

Thanks.

Larry