very important topic , most harmful steroid to body organs , and the most toxic to the brain ? not tren (SCIENCE BACKED)

[Type-IIx]

yes you are right
but i don't understand why anyone will choose to use this poison ?
you can even just do diet without cardio and this will burn the fat
why do I put myself into a danger like this to just shred some fat ?

It's highly effective but also highly risky. I've written a risk/reward profile for it. Might post it, but I'll run it past @Millard first because I'm not sure many here would even use it to start and I certainly wouldn't want to be the match to that flame.

 

[Dickwang]

yes you are right
but i don't understand why anyone will choose to use this poison ?
you can even just do diet without cardio and this will burn the fat
why do I put myself into a danger like this to just shred some fat ?

Mostly because of the mindset “I need this” to accomplish that.

Everyone wants the shortcut these days because they see how other people look and want to look the same as them in the shortest amount of time possible.

If they were to just take a step back and realize they don’t need to look like anyone but themselves, then the idea of ingesting poison would no longer be of interest.

 

[readalot]

the majority of nandrolone users barely notice anything cognitively

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Majority of nandrolone users...where?

 

[Type-IIx]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Majority of nandrolone users...where?

Empirically, from the guys I use it with who have used it already & suffer no ill-effects, and from observation of the bulk of users that use this most popular AAS.

TBF, readalot, I gritted my teeth a bit at your suggestion that clenbuterol is dangerous because you suffered ill effects. It's objectively not. I suspect this is analogous.

 

[readalot]

Empirically, from the guys I use it with who have used it already & suffer no ill-effects, and from observation of the bulk of users that use this most popular AAS.

TBF, readalot, I gritted my teeth a bit at your suggestion that clenbuterol is dangerous because you suffered ill effects. It's objectively not. I suspect this is analogous.

Never tried clen. My anecdote dealt with AFIB episode. I'd have to go back and look at our PM to see if I somehow I have you the impression it had was due to clen.

edit: going back I can see how my comments confused the situation. My point was baseline screen either ekg for arrythmia before playing with clen

Glad your the majority of your clients have found no issues with nandrolone. Not my experience or experience of many people I have encountered . Would be interesting to see the descriptive stats on dose per week, time on, etc.

 

[frenexen]

also deca was the worst on the liver because it reduced the weight of the liver (which indicate liver damage ) although hepatic alterations are primarily associated with 17a-alkylated aas

Is this a joke?

 

[anabolicmanx19]

Is this a joke?

this is what the study indicate
there is no bro science here
you can check the study by yourself

 

[Type-IIx]

Never tried clen. My anecdote dealt with AFIB episode. I'd have to go back and look at our PM to see if I somehow I have you the impression it had was due to clen.

You constantly veer off topic man, you literally quoted my Clenbuterol research thread. I can never figure out what you're talking about when you switch topics so rapidly, and somehow bring Joe Biden into the discussion???

 

[Type-IIx]

this is what the study indicate
there is no bro science here
you can check the study by yourself

To be clear, with proper English, it's what "this cited study indicates," not, what studies indicate.

 

[anabolicmanx19]

To be clear, with proper English, it's what "this cited study indicates," not, what studies indicate.

thanks man
trying my best
i said before english is not my primary language

 

[Type-IIx]

thanks man
trying my best
i said before english is not my primary language

I understand completely, trying to immerse myself into German. Thankfully have a bit of help!

P.S. If you speak Russian, I'd like your help. What is your primary language?

 

[anabolicmanx19]

Is this a joke?

also nandrolone decanoate liver toxicity is not a new thing

here is 2008 study :

Dose-dependent hepatic response to subchronic administration of nandrolone decanoate​

Conclusions: These results suggest that subchronic treatment with nandrolone decanoate, mainly administered at higher-than-clinical doses, are potentially deleterious to the liver, leading to incipient fibrosis.

​

 

[readalot]

You constantly veer off topic man, you literally quoted my Clenbuterol research thread. I can never figure out what you're talking about when you switch topics so rapidly, and somehow bring Joe Biden into the discussion???

guilty sometimes but in this thread you veered from nandrolone to clen.

I did quote your clen thread in a PM. I did not bring Biden up in that PM. I mentioned some previous experience with cardiac event. Germane to the topic to screen for arrythmia before running clen. You many times have little patience to follow up and clarify if there is confusion on your part.

For example, that exchange ended with you telling me I was condescending. Never my intent.

Thanks for the feedback. For some reason I find it difficult to communicate with you via forum. Perhaps one of us is using too many androgens, don't know.

 

[Type-IIx]

also nandrolone decanoate liver toxicity is not a new thing

here is 2008 study :

Dose-dependent hepatic response to subchronic administration of nandrolone decanoate​

Conclusions: These results suggest that subchronic treatment with nandrolone decanoate, mainly administered at higher-than-clinical doses, are potentially deleterious to the liver, leading to incipient fibrosis.

​

It's not, indeed.

However, it's only more toxic than other more potently aromatic aromatizable androgens per-mg, and less so than virtually all the oral 17AA androgens, except possibly metandienone & 17α-methyltestosterone.

This is because androgens increase reactive oxygen species ("free radicals") in liver cells, but estrogens are protective.

 

[anabolicmanx19]

I understand completely, trying to immerse myself into German. Thankfully have a bit of help!

P.S. If you speak Russian, I'd like your help. What is your primary language?

good luck man
thanks alot for your interest to correcting me
i hope you master russian and german asap
my primary language is arabic

 

[anabolicmanx19]

It's not, indeed.

However, it's only more toxic than other more potently aromatic aromatizable androgens per-mg, and less so than virtually all the oral 17AA androgens, except possibly metandienone & 17α-methyltestosterone.

yes your are right but it seems its more toxic than most of injectable steroids

 

[Type-IIx]

good luck man
thanks alot for your interest to correcting me
i hope you master russian and german asap
my primary language is arabic

TBH, I should absolutely learn Arabic, and wish it was within the realm of possibility.... but it's too hard! Good on you for having this level of English acumen.

 

[Type-IIx]

guilty.

I did quote your thread in a PM. I did not bring Biden up in that PM. I mentioned some previous experience with cardiac event. Germane to the topic to screen for arrythmia before running clen. You many times have little patience to follow up and clarify if there is confusion on your part.

For example, that exchange ended with you telling me I was condescending. Never my intent.

Thanks for the feedback.

I really, really like you! I just honestly - bearing my heart to you right now - get confused by the directions of conversation.

In prior conversation, you juxtaposed by quoting my Clenbuterol research thread with a description of your A-Fib event. Why would you quote that if not to hazard me about the (objectively low probability but potentially high severity) risks of clenbuterol use?

More recently, the cited chapter & Joe Biden policy, I'm at a loss about how they connect to the thread discussion pertaining contemporaneously to Dan Duchaine's foibles.

It's not impatience so much as confusion bro!

 

[frenexen]

this is what the study indicate
there is no bro science here
you can check the study by yourself

The joke is making the assumption that a reduction in liver weight indicates liver damage. The study does not make a conclusion on the effects of this difference in organ weight, it only denotes their existence. All androgens will have a negative impact on the liver, as most drugs will. I can tell you nandrolone is certainly not the most hepatotoxic compared to the other compounds in the study. Not that any of this matters in the long term after cessation.

In regards to the other parts of the study. The long term effects of steroids on neurologic function is not well understood, and this study proves nothing in that regard. Now short term, nandrolone is probably pretty bad for cognition with regards to effect on dopamine...Though not something I have any personal anecdotes on as I don't feel different on any compound, likely from anhedonia I've had long before I used any steroid.

I also don't consider it fair to compare similar dosage of compounds, as their affinity and action on the AR is quite different. Or at least, you should take that into account when comparing the data.

 

[readalot]

I really, really like you! I just honestly - bearing my heart to you right now - get confused by the directions of conversation.

In prior conversation, you juxtaposed by quoting my Clenbuterol research thread with a description of your A-Fib event. Why would you quote that if not to hazard me about the (objectively low probability but potentially high severity) risks of clenbuterol use?

More recently, the cited chapter & Joe Biden policy, I'm at a loss about how they connect to the thread discussion pertaining contemporaneously to Dan Duchaine's foibles.

It's not impatience so much as confusion bro!

Understood. The anecdote on afib was in the interest of harm reduction. Screening clients for congenital heart abnormality/arrythmia/blocks before running clen. Small number but high severity as you state.

Today I saw the reference to Duchaine by Millard and shared the article. From there you made a veiled reference to what appeared to be GHB. That immediately made me think of the book chapter on GHB research fiasco. Biden is a common thread to all of this (AAS, GHB, etc) as he played a major role in 1990 and 2000s legislation in US.

Correct that these had nothing to do with cartels.

TBF, Carrot Top had nothing to do with thread topic either LOL.

Thanks. I really appreciate your work. Will try to stay on topic better. Too much reading.