WADA issues alert on GW501516 aka GW1516, Endurobol

[Millard]

I'm sorry guys, i'm as disappointed as anyone. I was ready to get some gw1516 but...
Check it here. http://www.toxicology.org/AI/Pub/Tox/2009Tox.pdf
It says some cancers appeared at high dosages, but some other appreared at all dosages...
these are all from 2009.
i don't think wada did this for the obvious reasons but because they didn't know anything till now. i can't find a single updated log of gw1516 and maybe cancers appeared after long exposure to the drug...it says the study lasted 104 weeks...

These were rat/mouse studies using much larger dosages that used by humans. I'm not sure how this can be extrapolated to human data.

The only human study in that document actually showed an anti-carcinogenic effect (in pancreas).

I don't think GSK ceased research based on the data from these preclinical rat/mouse trials. The article I quoted by Ben Koh cited Phase I, II, IV human clinical trials. So researchers apparently weren't deterred by this data and proceeded to conduct human trials.

I want to know what happened in the human trials. Preclinical studies don't usually take place after human trials, do they?

 

[Millard]

http://www.toxicology.org/AI/Pub/Tox/2009Tox.pdf

read it and weep. dated 2009

 

[giannis89_10]

yes i agree, they were large dosages, but even so, the risk is crazy high when there are such indications...let alone you never know whether you got the real deal or not considering there's scarcity...i don't think its worth the buck...

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Herein, lies the problem. PhRMA is NOT going to do R&D on a drug for muscle mass & strength based on these alone. These are a nonstarter. It is very unfortunate considering the obesity epidemic and all of its costs. In fact, I highly doubt R&D will go towards use in obesity, although this might be the one disorder most easily shown to be significant (p<0.05). the R&D will be in other disorders with clearly defined Patient Reported Outcomes (PRO). Thus, you see GTXi pushing their SARM in Cancer with a 6MWT endpoint.

 

[Millard]

yes i agree, they were large dosages, but even so, the risk is crazy high when there are such indications...let alone you never know whether you got the real deal or not considering there's scarcity...i don't think its worth the buck...

I don't disagree. I'd like to see more data.

I can not accurately judge whether the "risk is crazy high" extrapolating from the animal data. How many drugs that are safely used by humans in therapeutic dosages but cause cancer in laboratory animals at ridiculously high dosages? If the dosage is sufficiently high, there may be cancer and/or other harmful side effects. The question is not whether a particular, if used at a high enough dosage, will cause cancer. It is, can a drug be used safely?

Human trials with GW1516 use 2.5mg, 5mg, or maximum of 10mg as the total daily dosage.

If we extrapolated the dosages (5/20/40-mg/kg/day) used in rats to a 200 lb bodybuilder, we're talking 454mg, 1,814mg or 3,629mg per day

Even if these dosages caused cancer in humans, it doesn't mean 2.5mg will.

It doesn't mean it won't either.

But what can the rat data really tell us about its use in humans?

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

Oh christ - Check out wikis new GW info page. The perpetuation continues..and based on what. IMO Propaganda by WADA and irresponsible reporting. Show me otherwise and I'll believe it but to this point it sure looks like it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GW_501516

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Son of a bitch. I'm still not throwing away my current stock. If I somehow manage to get cancer from a total of 600mg I suppose it was just meant to be.

 

[foreveryoung]

so those of you taking it, what specifics are you hoping from it?

 

[Researcher]

Oh christ - Check out wikis new GW info page. The perpetuation continues..and based on what. IMO Propaganda by WADA and irresponsible reporting. Show me otherwise and I'll believe it but to this point it sure looks like it.
GW 501516 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes see the debate in the "Talk" section. A lot of censorship happening.

 

[Millard]

Yes see the debate in the "Talk" section. A lot of censorship happening.

Wow! Highly disturbing. The inclusion of any mention of results from actual human trials on GW1516 is forbidden because "any claims that even hint that it is safe in humans would be pretty clearly original research and not permissible."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:GW_501516

 

[Researcher]

Just about every substance that provides tangable positive benefits does so at the expense of compromising health in other ways. It would be nieve to thing GW1516 would be any different.

With that said, the fact that they're not willing to share their 'findings' leads me to believe that thier claims are vastly embellished. I'm currently taking 30mg ED at the moment and have no reservations about continuing my use.

Hey, can anyone tell me if Endurobol is available in any shops off the shelf? Or is it available online only?

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Hey, can anyone tell me if Endurobol is available in any shops off the shelf? Or is it available online only?

I can't imagine it would possibly be available at your local GNC or supplement shop. Few online sources carry 'research chemicals' as it is.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

PPAR Delta For Cycling? I Think Not.
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/12/ppar_delta_for_cycling_i_think_not.php

Now here's one that I didn't know about: a reader sends along word that the former clinical candidate GW501516 is enjoying some popularity on the black market among cyclists and other athletes.

I remember that compound well from the days when I did PPAR nuclear receptor research. It's the very model of a PPAR-delta ligand - GlaxoSmithKline had it in the clinic for some time, until it slowly disappeared from their roster. In 2007, the Evans lab at the Salk Institute published a paper suggesting that the compound increased endurance, and that sent it right into the athletic underworld. I have no idea if it does what its users want, but I do know that I wouldn't touch the stuff. The PPAR compounds have a very, very wide range of effects, and unraveling those proved to be very difficult indeed. Long-term effects of a compound like this one are unknown - all we know is that GSK dropped it from the clinic, and that could well have been for tox. Taking this stuff to gain some time in a bicycle raise is sheer foolhardiness.

 

[Millard]

PPAR Delta For Cycling? I Think Not.
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/12/ppar_delta_for_cycling_i_think_not.php

The same author has more articles on drugs affecting PPAR family:

http://www.corante.com/pipeline/archives/2004/07/19/bungee_jumping_with_ppar_drugs.php (Bungee Jumping with PPAR Drugs. In the Pipeline:)

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2004/09/13/a_realworld_can_o_worms.php

 

[Millard]

Ben Koh posted an update today on his original article re: WADA warning GW1516. GSK and WADA responded to his inquiry for more information.

Apparently, GSK alerted WADA after learning GW1516 was available on the black market. Plus, athletes have been testing positive for GW1516 this year e.g. Valery Kaikov. But warning was not based on any new data or human clinical trials but older animal studies.

GSK proactively contacted WADA after becoming aware of internet reports in January 2013 suggesting potential abuse of GW501516 by athletes. Independently, WADA had also found several positive cases indicating abuse with the agent in early 2013 as part of their testing.

https://theconversation.com/anti-doping-agency-warns-cheats-on-the-health-risks-of-endurobol-12997