Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Dr JIM]

I knew you'd never say anything good about generic GH!!

Now, about the 10k thing, you been hanging out with PC Dr. Jim?? haha

Oh no I'm actually being quite serious, if that newbie or anyone else can PROVE via an email or whatever that I was EVER financially involved OR was reimbursed on a monetary basis by GETM, they will receive TEN GRAND!

Oh my money is safe, bc it simply never happened.

Respects
Jim

 

[mands]

You are probably right Flenser. I guess I am just a little shocked at the reaction from Mands.

I get you two confused! Flesner is the one who called me a shill. That's why I took offense.

Let me say this for the third time. Everyone can write, think and post what they want. Have their opinion or whatever. If they haven't dealt with, ran a product and/or tested it, your opinion has no merit in my "opinion"

mands

 

[dnml]

What are you new to this game of UGLs? You believe it's the first time a UGL initially sold high end gear (and MANY vets have said the SAME DAMN THING) only to lie, cheat, barter or steal as a means of continuing sales as the quality declined.

(FYI, I LEFT MESO BC OF A DISAGREEMENT WITH ADMIN, NOTHING MORE OR LESS, WHY DON'T YOU ASK THEM DIRECTLY, AND PERHAPS THEN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO YANK THAT FOOT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!)

So if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground you would have recognized that's exactly what happened to GETM.

Moreover you are absolutely FOS if you believe I've EVER recommended a generic GH product. Post the damn quote fool because until you do your talking out your ASS.

Finally I NEVER was involved in the administrative aspect of GETM and NEVER made one cent out of their endeavors on Meso or anywhere else,

You have proof to the contrary? Ten grand says HELL NO YOU DONT.

SO ON ALL ACCOUNTS, PUT UP OR SHUT UP, BOZO!

Wow, struck a nerve eh? Now there's the insane Jim that went into hiding.

Look, I agree 100% with your first paragraph, which is why I never have and never will back a UGL. WHICH MAKES IT ALL THE MORE DISTURBING AND SUSPECT THAT YOU DID!! Okay enough caps, that's your play.

Bottom line, as adamant and dogmatic as you were (and always are) in your posts about them, you were dead wrong. And you of all people, based on your own words, should know better. THEREFORE: you have zero credibility here. Just let the testing play out and keep quiet.

P.S. enjoyed the bozo comment, liked your post for that one

 

[dnml]

Oh no I'm actually being quite serious, if that newbie or anyone else can PROVE via an email or whatever that I was EVER financially involved OR was reimbursed on a monetary basis by GETM, they will receive TEN GRAND!

Respects
Jim

lmao is this Karl? No seriously. ... lol

 

[mands]

Oh no I'm actually being quite serious, if that newbie or anyone else can PROVE via an email or whatever that I was EVER financially involved OR was reimbursed on a monetary basis by GETM, they will receive TEN GRAND!

Respects
Jim

I know in our talks you have never endorsed any generic. He's always been against generics.

mands

 

[dnml]

Oh no I'm actually being quite serious, if that newbie or anyone else can PROVE via an email or whatever that I was EVER financially involved OR was reimbursed on a monetary basis by GETM, they will receive TEN GRAND!

Respects
Jim

Interesting wording here: Financially involved or reimbursed on a monetary basis... Reimbursed (not paid, reimbursed) for what?

And monetary basis? Sooooo, what about product? Gear?

And prove via email? Gimme a break. Now I'm sure you were involved.

 

[mands]

@Flounder @flenser I mixed you two up! Sorry about that. Flenser did apologize for calling me a shill

mands

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh hell yea I paid my way thru med school selling GETM gear, lol

So how's your claim to fame post search going?

Hmm you have 111 posts and I have no credibility here, LMAO!

Fortunately those that spew nonsense and can't back up their words with EVIDENCE matter little on Meso and your no exception.

Clueless your a waste of my time.

 

[weighted chinup]

What are you shocked about? I was attacked on the initial posts I made when I said I was testing Karl's gh. Then when I post results I have people saying they don't believe it and still question it.

If anyone here had put in a ton of work and shelled out their own time and money they would be a little defensive as well! Hell I was called out buy more than one here on this thread.

mands

I think I was one of the ones you are referring to. My joke about EMD Serono taking lessons from an UGL was in no way questioning your integrity or the tests you had conducted. I would never attack someone for testing product, especially if its done by someone I would consider to be trustworthy, so please see my comment as the humor it is rather than the call out it might appeared to have been.

FWIW I think a lot of the apprehensions people have about this product isn't the purity, but other factors like Q/A. These are things that can only be proven with time, so please don't see peoples cynicism or cautiousness towards this product as them questioning your testing. I personally don't see the harm in approaching matters this way, it will only serve to protect the consumers, and if the product is solid and Q/A is on point then members will see that.

 

[dealer]

And monetary basis? Sooooo, what about product? Gear?

And prove via email? Gimme a break. Now I'm sure you were involved.

He MAY of received some free gear from GETM.. he would not be the first person and won't be the last. Lots of respected members and Vets get hooked up on this board and others.

Interesting considering your past position on GE-TM generic gh:

And yet with your self proclaimed qualifications, you were either duped... or a shill left out in the cold, for GE-TM.

IMO this makes you the least qualified, and extremely untrustworthy, commenter on GH testing, srcs, legitimacy, etc.

So if GETM was Good To Go when he tested them and later turned bad that makes him unqualified? So Mands will be unqualified also if Western Biotech goes bad also? Thats not logical. Also I don't think you saw the history where the doc bashed all generics with a vengeance. THE FACT THAT HE HAS NOT TORE INTO THIS THREAD SAYS ALOT.

THEREFORE: you have zero credibility here. Just let the testing play out and keep quiet.

Not sure how much reading you do but the Doc was the one that spotted Angus' mediocre Mass Spec results as people slowly caught on later so he is qualified to speak in this thread actually.

Not sure what your beef with the doc is, but him being a shill ? Unlikely.. Look at his thousands of posts. A good high percentage of them are helping people out with real problems.

If you really are a doctor, you should be held to an even higher standard, as opposed to none at all.

You accusing him of him of not being a doc too? I hear that used against him every now and then. Have you read his thousands of posts? The Doc is a wealth of knowledge and you'd be a fool to not acknowledge that.

Lets for shits and giggles say he is not a practicing doctor but went to medical school and them became a chemist. What does it matter, because when he writes, its clear that in this field, he knows his shit.

He may be trying to throw us all off from his true identity, as he probably has alot to lose if he gets caught (like most of us).

Not trying to start beef with you... not even on AAS at the moment.. but you have part of the history right but your not seeing the whole big picture like some of us that have been around longer reading every day.

 

[Flounder]

I get you two confused! Flesner is the one who called me a shill. That's why I took offense.

Let me say this for the third time. Everyone can write, think and post what they want. Have their opinion or whatever. If they haven't dealt with, ran a product and/or tested it, your opinion has no merit in my "opinion"

mands

OK that works for me. Mands I understand and respect what you are doing for this thread and for Meso members in regards to the testing you have done. Just one question about your opinion. Since when did it become a prerequisite to have either ran, tested or dealt with product to post an opinion on that supplier's thread. Sorry Mands but I call bullshit on that. So by your logic I shouldn't have any opinion or thoughts to write about on Astro, Dunamis, Superior, Naps, Titan, Eurochem, Naps, Geneza, ALP, Dragon pharma, etc..etc.. Or is it that you just don't want thoughts or opinions on this thread? Sorry to say Mands but that sounds to me like what sponsored boards believe in. Oppression of thoughts and opinions if it's not good for the product. I thought this board was based on uncensored thoughts and opinions. I'm not trying to raise a big stink here but I just call it the way I see it.

 

[dnml]

So @mands hit me re: my "beef" with Jim... @dealer makes some good points above too.

I could be wrong about you Jim- not gonna lie your posts come off as arrogant to me at times and sometimes irk me- but that doesn't automatically make you a shill or mal-intentioned.

So with that plz accept my apologies Jim and I'll back off. At the end of the day, we probably have the same goals in mind.

One thing I will respond to in dealers post re: if "WBT goes bad then mands had no cred"... the difference to me is that he has been more objective and said he will keep testing and that things could go south at any time. That is the attitude we all need to have, instead of some of the hero worship when a lab finally provides a decent product.

 

[dnml]

OK that works for me. Mands I understand and respect what you are doing for this thread and for Meso members in regards to the testing you have done. Just one question about your opinion. Since when did it become a prerequisite to have either ran, tested or dealt with product to post an opinion on that supplier's thread. Sorry Mands but I call bullshit on that. So by your logic I shouldn't have any opinion or thoughts to write about on Astro, Dunamis, Superior, Naps, Titan, Eurochem, Naps, Geneza, ALP, Dragon pharma, etc..etc.. Or is it that you just don't want thoughts or opinions on this thread? Sorry to say Mands but that sounds to me like what sponsored boards believe in. Oppression of thoughts and opinions if it's not good for the product. I thought this board was based on uncensored thoughts and opinions. I'm not trying to raise a big stink here but I just call it the way I see it.

If you have no experience with them, what could you possibly "opine" on??? Not a rhetorical question, asking seriously.

 

[Western-Biotech]

I think I was one of the ones you are referring to. My joke about EMD Serono taking lessons from an UGL was in no way questioning your integrity or the tests you had conducted. I would never attack someone for testing product, especially if its done by someone I would consider to be trustworthy, so please see my comment as the humor it is rather than the call out it might appeared to have been.

FWIW I think a lot of the apprehensions people have about this product isn't the purity, but other factors like Q/A. These are things that can only be proven with time, so please don't see peoples cynicism or cautiousness towards this product as them questioning your testing. I personally don't see the harm in approaching matters this way, it will only serve to protect the consumers, and if the product is solid and Q/A is on point then members will see that.

It's important to realize that we run the most sophisticated QA (quality assurance) in our facility, I posted our in house testing results to this batch at the beginning, they match the independent results posted here later of course. We test each step in the production like I showed to confirm the purity and potency, not just the final product.

What you refer to is actually the fact that Serano (for instance) are under a strict regulation of the FDA while we're not, so nothing may prevent us to fuck the quality if we like to, while they're monitored severely.
Each and every customer may decide if he should be paying 4 times the price for this.
I explained earlier that the main issue in GH production, which is a very very expensive and sophisticated venture (unlike AAS, and actually most kinds of drugs), is to obtain the technology and the equipment, the actual production is not very expensive, so there should be no reason to fuck the quality. In other words - if I achieve 99% purity this didn't happen by chance, it's not like u may make batchs of 90% purity, and by chance one out of a 10 u get 99%.... you need the most complete knowhow, experience and technology to achieve 99% purity, but keeping this purity is not an issue.

SO WE HAVE ALL THE INTEREST AND ABILITY IN THE WORLD TO KEEP THIS QUALITY, KEEP ESTABLISHING OUR REPUTATION AND DO GOOD AND PROFITABLE BUSINESS.

I guess it'll be your job to replace the FDA and watch us ....

 

[element00]

You should read my comment to him Flounder as it applly to you as well. Everyone can have an opinion.

I believe you are one of the ones who attacked me initial no having a clue about the situation.



Never said you did buddy! All I meant is if you don't have experience with Karl or his GH why even say anything? It's a serious question and I'm not being a dick. I really want to know.

That question goes for anyone that post about a source that has no personal experience with that source. Most are just regurgitating what they have heard from a buddy who heard from a buddy.

I went back and read elements posts and I don't see why I'm targeting him. He really didn't say much about the GH or question me. I think he was questioning ufcguy? Which UFC is a good guy and been around a while and I think I took offense.

I apologize element for the personal attacks. It should been directed to others that don't have any experience with Karl and his GH and are talking shit.

mands

Thanks for the apology Mands, but TBH it's not necessary. I'm ok with having differences in opinions put out in the open in an uncensored way, that's one of the draw cards here rather than other boards IMO.

I can't agree with your views on what makes a persons posts insignificant. You don't believe I have a right to post in this thread, though I will continue to post in threads where I have something to say. That's meso isn't it? It seems easy enough to ignore anyone we don't want to engage with.

I've been looking over some old threads and it seems the way members communicate with and about sources has changed significantly over the last 12 months. Vets may see this different to new guys, though I guess each member decide for themselves whether this is for the better or not

 

[weighted chinup]

It's important to realize that we run the most sophisticated QA (quality assurance) in our facility, I posted our in house testing results to this batch at the beginning, they match the independent results posted here later of course. We test each step in the production like I showed to confirm the purity and potency, not just the final product.

What you refer to is actually the fact that Serano (for instance) are under a strict regulation of the FDA while we're not, so nothing may prevent us to fuck the quality if we like to, while they're monitored severely.
Each and every customer may decide if he should be paying 4 times the price for this.
I explained earlier that the main issue in GH production, which is a very very expensive and sophisticated venture (unlike AAS, and actually most kinds of drugs), is to obtain the technology and the equipment, the actual production is not very expensive, so there should be no reason to fuck the quality. In other words - if I achieve 99% purity this didn't happen by chance, it's not like u may make batchs of 90% purity, and by chance one out of a 10 u get 99%.... you need the most complete knowhow, experience and technology to achieve 99% purity, but keeping this purity is not an issue.

SO WE HAVE ALL THE INTEREST AND ABILITY IN THE WORLD TO KEEP THIS QUALITY, KEEP ESTABLISHING OUR REPUTATION AND DO GOOD AND PROFITABLE BUSINESS.

I guess it'll be your job to replace the FDA and watch us ....

I agree with what you said about FDA regulations being the difference in consistent Q/A. I also understand that FDA approved products are out of reach for most people, or many aren't willing to pay the price. I wouldn't expect a generic indian brand of medication to have the same consistency as an FDA approved product for example, but in situations like that I am only out a very small amount of money. Even generic / chinese GH is pretty expensive, so you can see why some guys refuse to play the UGL market for GH. You say this won't be an issue for you, and while I don't refute that, I think TIME will be the biggest factor in backing up your claims.

I hope people do consistent testing on your product and that your held accountable to the high purity standards you set out. These are strong claims, and while the HPLC/MS may confirm the purity, your ability to consistently provide a product of that purity level is something that can only be determined with time and people doing plenty of serum testing.

I can only speak for myself, I am only relaying my own opinions on this. QA I think is something that can only be proven with time, there really isn't anything that can be said to appease guys who question the ability of an UGL to consistently meet their purity standards, which is why I think its kind of pointless to compare to pharma. I don't have any inherent negativity towards you or your product, I have never dealt with you before, so understand that I am being as neutral as possible, I don't have any biases in this matter. Just my opinions, that's all.

 

[mands]

I think I was one of the ones you are referring to. My joke about EMD Serono taking lessons from an UGL was in no way questioning your integrity or the tests you had conducted. I would never attack someone for testing product, especially if its done by someone I would consider to be trustworthy, so please see my comment as the humor it is rather than the call out it might appeared to have been.

FWIW I think a lot of the apprehensions people have about this product isn't the purity, but other factors like Q/A. These are things that can only be proven with time, so please don't see peoples cynicism or cautiousness towards this product as them questioning your testing. I personally don't see the harm in approaching matters this way, it will only serve to protect the consumers, and if the product is solid and Q/A is on point then members will see that.

Understood!!! I would like to say that all products can go bad and I believe everyone here understands that. Posting prematurely about the fail or doom of a product is negative to the current position of the product. If it's bad now then post it up and complain. If it's good post it up and let people take advantage of it.

OK that works for me. Mands I understand and respect what you are doing for this thread and for Meso members in regards to the testing you have done. Just one question about your opinion. Since when did it become a prerequisite to have either ran, tested or dealt with product to post an opinion on that supplier's thread. Sorry Mands but I call bullshit on that. So by your logic I shouldn't have any opinion or thoughts to write about on Astro, Dunamis, Superior, Naps, Titan, Eurochem, Naps, Geneza, ALP, Dragon pharma, etc..etc.. Or is it that you just don't want thoughts or opinions on this thread? Sorry to say Mands but that sounds to me like what sponsored boards believe in. Oppression of thoughts and opinions if it's not good for the product. I thought this board was based on uncensored thoughts and opinions. I'm not trying to raise a big stink here but I just call it the way I see it.

Flounder I honestly believe that it's not bullshit. Have you ever seen me post about a source that I haven't personally communicated with or have used. Nope I absolutely have not. I don't like Astro after I sent an order for some NPP and he emailed me back and told me he only had a few bottles and didn't reach the minimum(like $40 short) lol I told him to add a bottle and then never heard back. But, I never posted in his thread complaining even though I could have. I have never bitched or posted about Dunamis, Superior, Naps, Titan, Eurochem, ALP or Dragon Pharma because I have never communicated with them or ran any of their gear. So my opinion of them amounts to shit. Does that make sense or still seem like Bullshit?

Thanks for the apology Mands, but TBH it's not necessary. I'm ok with having differences in opinions put out in the open in an uncensored way, that's one of the draw cards here rather than other boards IMO.

I can't agree with your views on what makes a persons posts insignificant. You don't believe I have a right to post in this thread, though I will continue to post in threads where I have something to say. That's meso isn't it? It seems easy enough to ignore anyone we don't want to engage with.

I've been looking over some old threads and it seems the way members communicate with and about sources has changed significantly over the last 12 months. Vets may see this different to new guys, though I guess each member decide for themselves whether this is for the better or not

I know but I was wrong and I can admit when I'm wrong which isn't fucking often. lol

And element see above for my reasons why I think some opinions don't hold water. It's just what I believe.

mands

 

[ufcguy32]

I think what is important is what we have learned I mean in the end isn't that why we are here? I mean seriously having opinions is great but I'll take facts and testing and experience over just a random opinion any day of the week.

 

[Voltrader]

I am good with where we are at right now. I think we can take this situation and make Meso shine but that is going to be on all of us to put forward the test. QA is always going to be a concern but just maybe if the source knows he is being rigorously put to test then he knows it won't slide. Interesting situation here.

 

[Western-Biotech]

Wait I suppose I'm one of those educated guys your referring to and you keep TALKING about what your facilities can do, will do or have done but tell me the reason again you can't post pics up, bc of sterile equipment, FDA standards ect.

Give me a break!

If you have all the technological equipment needed to produce Pharm Grade GH from plasmid insertion to lyophilization of the end product, a few pics would be a simpletons chore.

Jim

With all the respect, and I do repeat myself, pics can't prove much, they can't prove anything actually but the fact that I posted pictures. I'm here on daily basis, and give u the most comprehensive cooperation regarding any technical details, quality assurance measure, lab test, general info etc'. I stated that I back up the quality all day year around. Ask me on any details, make any lab test to the Somastim, these may prove quality.
Now lets say that I show u some pics... what will it prove ? do u know who am I ? I may go to any pharma facility or major university and take pics ... so ?! I'm not here to mislead u but to prove honest attitude and give productive info...

U know what .... I'll get u pics next week, just not to let u the feeling that I avoid anything, I'll send them through the admin, as there will be some serious safety things here on the line, which is the only reason to prevented me so far from posting pics, FFS