Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Western-Biotech]

I'll know after weekend, when sitting down with my professor, and some how explain to him I need these tests, despite his expert opinion that these are as unnecessary as pain in the ass if we run our biological assay tests, and determine the purity with SDS and SEC

The customer is always right ....

 

[Dr JIM]

Considering what I've observed and experienced throughout this entire thread, Karl posting analytical tests at this juncture is an absolute waste of time for a variety of reasons, IMO.

But in short he is literally impossible to "work" with, and I've other things to do on Meso and elsewhere.

 

[Western-Biotech]

Then maybe u may finally test it Doc so your post may have finally any base in reality ?

Are u an analytic chemist to make such statement ? ohhhhh, I forgot ... you're just a brains fucker

 

[Dr JIM]

Bye Karl!

 

[muscle96ss]

Considering what I've observed and experienced throughout this entire thread, Karl posting analytical tests at this juncture is an absolute waste of time for a variety of reasons, IMO.

But in short he is literally impossible to "work" with, and I've other things to do on Meso and elsewhere.

Karl is impossible to work with?? Seriously??? Get the fuck out of here!!!! The reason this thread is dysfunctional is because of you my friend; have you even read what your peers have written. Now, I who supposedly is the shill, put the pressure back on Karl, and what the fuck do you do, you come and make a distraction and say that it doesn't matter if he posts the tests and once again take the heat off Karl. You are nothing but an assclown!!!!! But at least you have agreed to leave the thread, thank you!!

 

[Dr JIM]

My last post to you, LMAO!

 

[bodybuilder_fl]

I have some coming my way! Im gonna take 10 ius for 3 straight days and see what happens! have an igf 1 and a hgh blood work scheduled. We will see what happens... Since Im not friends with no one in this forum I have no reason to lie about shit....im 11 weeks out nationals and last thing I want is to get burned and be injecting water and sugar! we will see...

 

[ufcguy32]

I don't think igf will be raised 3 days

 

[bodybuilder_fl]

I don't think igf will be raised 3 days

i wont do the test in 3 days! I will just kickstart with 10 ius for 3 days...after that 6 a day and i have a month to do the test! I can pick any day...

 

[Dr JIM]

If you want this to have any relevancy you should at least have baseline IGF and GH levels drawn.

Moreover a beginning 2-3 hour peak GH level better correlates with dosing than IGF, since the latter seems to plateau at about THREE TIMES baseline

 

[bodybuilder_fl]

If you want this to have any relevancy you should at least have baseline IGF and GH levels drawn.

Moreover a beginning 2-3 hour peak GH level better correlates with dosing than IGF, since the latter seems to plateau at about THREE TIMES baseline

So in your opinion doc, what would be the best dosage protocol to achieve a most accurrate test? I know about the 10 ius couple hours before the test... anything else?

 

[Dr JIM]

Nope the results may vary considerably however, but it's what's available

 

[Dr JIM]

Please note on page FOUR of the article, (93) of the journal, (FIGURE TWO) the changes in IGF based on GH dosing. Although their is a linear relationship, the differences among the quantity of GH used by each sub-group are very difficult to extrapolate into an exacting dose.

That is, far to much overlap exists between the quantity of GH any one participant used and predicting expected changes in IGF levels.

Also note the "high" end GH users were taking 0.10 MG/KG of GH daily. So for a 100 KG mate thats a whopping 10mg or THIRTY IU every day! Moreover even at such high doses of GH upper end IGF levels PEAK at roughly 3 times baseline.

What does this mean IGF is an excellent marker used in the clinical setting (in addition to other factors) to determine the response to GH therapy. However the use of IGF to evaluate the "quality" (dose response curve) of a particular GH product is inherently flawed, IMO.

Consequently more accurate dose response estimates are obtained using peak GH levels. Such that for an average 100kg male a single 10IU dose of GH would be expected to INCREASE GH levels somewhere in the neighborhood of 15/20 ng/ml above baseline, assuming a concentration of greater than 90%. (Eli Lilly Humatrope internal data with a product concentration of 97.6%.)

Regs
jim

 

[Western-Biotech]

A agree with the Doc, the IGF1 levels indicates on the clinical effect of the GH, but they can't quantify by any means the purity, or even the exact dosage of the product,

Lets follow the protocols he suggested, we'll use of course lower dosage, but the evaluation will be similar, though of course not liner to the dosage.

as an indication pls run base line IGF1 levels, and if possible lets try to get some parallel IGF1 levels from pharma grade products to compare, I know a couple of members here have this info, so it'll be interesting

 

[Dr JIM]

Please note on page FOUR of the article, (93) of the journal, (FIGURE TWO) the changes in IGF based on GH dosing. Although their is a linear relationship, the differences among the quantity of GH used by each sub-group are very difficult to extrapolate into an exacting dose.

That is, far to much overlap exists between the quantity of GH any one participant used and predicting expected changes in IGF levels.

Also note the "high" end GH users were taking 0.10 MG/KG of GH daily. So for a 100 KG mate thats a whopping 10mg or THIRTY IU every day! Moreover even at such high doses of GH upper end IGF levels PEAK at roughly 3 times baseline.

What does this mean IGF is an excellent marker used in the clinical setting (in addition to other factors) to determine the response to GH therapy. However the use of IGF to evaluate the "quality" (dose response curve) of a particular GH product is inherently flawed, IMO.

Consequently more accurate dose response estimates are obtained using peak GH levels. Such that for an average 100kg male a single 10IU dose of GH would be expected to INCREASE GH levels somewhere in the neighborhood of 15/20 ng/ml above baseline, assuming a concentration of greater than 90%. (Eli Lilly Humatrope internal data with a product concentration of 97.6%.)

Regs
jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Also take a look at TABLE TWO on PAGE FOUR! Note the serum glucose NEVER reaches hyperglycemic values (>110mg/dl). Well since we all KNOW GH increases serum BS note the compensatory increased serum insulin levels especially in the HIGH GH dosed patients (30IU / DAY).

So although I've mentioned this previously here's the PROOF, supplementing insulin to a GH protocol is simply not warranted and offers no benefit for even those whom are pinning GH at 30IU/DAY!

(Of course that's assuming your not pre-diabetic. Which bring me to, why I believe at least those BB whom have a diabetic family history, should be screened for Diabetes BEFORE beginning said GH protocol. Because this shit can make you sick as a dog if your pre-diabetic, IME)

regs
JIM

 

[Western-Biotech]

Doc - if there is a recommendation to take insulin is in order to assist the pancreas to cope with the the repeated hyperglycemic effect of continuous use in GH.

I've been working with pro athletes.

Constant hyperglycemic overload (just like is diabetes type 2 which stems mostly with the western diet which is high in simple sugars which also have hyperglycemic effect) leads to insulin resistance. Application of insulin is considered to help the pancreas to cope with repeated hyperglycemia when taken properly)

So as we learn the pancreas may cope with one severe overload hyperglycemia like with high dosage of HGH, but constant overload is what we like to prevent as it may lead to some insulin resistance.

Of course the genetic tendency to develop type 2 diabetes has a distinct role here as well like the doc said

 

[Dr JIM]

And that's bro science at it's finest.

So why don't these kids on GH need insulin? Insulin resistance at 30 IU QD perhaps but at recommended doses it's BS.

Let's not forget the secretion on insulin is one of the primary pancreatic functions so this notion of pancreatic burnout is a factor in diabetics or pre-diabetics and NOT BB
whom are supplementing GH at reasonable doses.

IF BB are taking MORE than the RDD of GH, insulin resistance will be the COMPLICATION they should be least concerned about!

The bottom line if your developing hyperglycemia bc of GH supplementation your either a pre-diabetic OR taking far to much GH.

MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

 

[Western-Biotech]

Interesting ......

The ones to first use insulin were Russians weightlifters..... they tend to know what they're doing ..... I must ask if they all used it...under what conditions

I agree that involving insulin in the meds regime is an issue which may cause severe complications,

Just to visualize what I was talking about regarding the overload hyperclycamia - say now u take a high dosage of HGH ... then the glucose levels rises sharply - the GH directly cause it, this is a stress hormone, and like any stress hormone it raise glucose levels, then the pancreas need to secrete much insulin to get the glucose back to the cells, then when injecting again GH the same happens .....repeatedly....so the body need to keep insulin levels very high around the clock, this is exactly the case for insulin resistance.

Doc - what is the recommended dosage for athletes to go with HGH ? any references ?

 

[Dr JIM]

Actually I wouldn't say anyone knows "what they are doing" until they publish WHAT THEY DID!

And the Russians didn't document SHIT! (For a variety of reasons)