Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[swolewishes]

So no base recommendation for dosage? I've never used gh and had considered trying it out with , not this cycle I'm about to begin but the next, so I've been reading along on a few threads gathering what info I can and haven't really seen any consistent dosage.

 

[mands]

Speaking of insulin... My buddy was running a test 800mg a week of cyp. and 120mcg IGF-1 r3 cycle and added a insulin protocol and in one month went from 240 lbs to 271 lbs. now that's ridiculous. 505 bench press. He is eating 6000 calories too.

That's beast more right there.

mands

 

[mands]

So no base recommendation for dosage? I've never used gh and had considered trying it out with , not this cycle I'm about to begin but the next, so I've been reading along on a few threads gathering what info I can and haven't really seen any consistent dosage.

There might be some gh logs on here some where. Try searching. If you can't find anything good I will give you a good run down.

mands

 

[Western-Biotech]

Doc - what u say about combining igf1 and lin ? igf1 has a distinct insulin like effect, which means it works like lin, activate lin receptors, i certainly don't think there is any logic to combine both ?

 

[mands]

There might be some gh logs on here some where. Try searching. If you can't find anything good I will give you a good run down.

mands

Sounds good!

mands

 

[Dr JIM]

There might be some gh logs on here some where. Try searching. If you can't find anything good I will give you a good run down.

mands

Well let's look at what is KNOWN about insulin Resistance and whether BB should be using INSULIN "to combat" the problem!

CAUSE

1) first and this is VERY important to remember the best means of treating IR is to treat the CAUSE ..... HYPERGLYCEMIA -
2) The worst thing to do in those with IR is to RAISE the insulin dose bc it makes the IR even worse.

RISK FACTORS
1) inactive life style, bc EXERCISE decreases IR (BB are "exercising" all the time, so NOPE

2) consumption of foods that result in ABRUPT changes in glucose and enhance insulin demand (BB have some of the cleanest diets, so NOPE)

3) obesity especially truncal obesity , hmm haven't seen many BB with a "gut" in Mr Olympia, lol

4) GH use! Hmm well considering the half life of GH is < 20 minutes, it most certainly does not cause IR. (However as I've mentioned VERY high doses COULD create some issues with hyperglycemia

5) Hereditary issues, yea baby!
Before you use GH obtain DM screen ing before and during it's use.

SO WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE SUPPORT THE USE OF INSULIN WHILE RUNNING GH!

I'd love to see it bc nothing in the literature contradicts my posts here and elsewhere on this subject.

Something we must ALL remember since the overwhelming majority of the mates on BB forums will NEVER become competitive BB, why aren't we emphasizing the use of certain PEDs, which if used at all, should only be a part of the competitive circuit.

I honestly think we are failing these noobs and young mates by suggesting insulin should be a part of GH therapy,
without FIRST defining, in very specific terms, the goal of that individual.

That's like me providing a "GH dosing"
regimen without FIRST clarifying someone's goals, I know better!


Regs
Jim

 

[Western-Biotech]

I was sitting today with my professor.

He said clearly he's not surprised that purity exceed any known standards, as we use a very sophisticated method, he says we use more advanced purification technique then the mess one they use in the industry, and this delicate method preserves better the protein, and prevent aggravation, this was confirmed as u saw by MAnds and another forum

He said a mess spec tests is an interesting test, and may prove in higher resolution the purity (I hope I use proper translation) and we'll arrange it in purpose in an independent lab,

He said the AA seq is absolutely unnecessary, if u follow our tests, as we all know it's GH after the full identifications SDS, SEC, and now mess spec, but you ask it so u get it - we'll use this test which is the standard for this peptide- Amino-terminal sequence analysis of 5-10 amino acids

For the eleventh time - for any suspect in the SDS-page results he clearly said he used colors markers which are read distorted in purpose by the Dc - u may all realize we won't show records of other proteins in our in house tests of GH. I asked him to repeat on this test with clear markers !

 

[Western-Biotech]

Think the clearing half time of GH after sub Q inj' in 4 hours doc. Lets check it

 

[Western-Biotech]

Doc - I also think that a normal BB pancreras secrets like 60-150 IU lin per day, they usually use like 5-15 iu on lin ...... I don't think it has that impact ?

 

[mands]

I honestly think we are failing these noobs and young mates by suggesting insulin should be a part of GH therapy,
without FIRST defining, in very specific terms, the goal of that individual.

That's like me providing a "GH dosing"
regimen without FIRST clarifying someone's goals, I know better!


Regs
Jim

Agreed!!! I always will get as much background information and base line labs before I ever give out any dosing protocols on GH or AAS.

mands

 

[mands]

Here is my normal questioning for anyone that wants to run PED's and comes to me for help. I would say around 40% of them I can usually talk out of running them. At least hold them off for a substantial time. A lot of work can be done naturally before they are introduced.

1. Weight, Height, Age, BF%?
2. Current training and diet?
3. How long have you been training?
4. Why do you want to run PED's?
5. What are your expectations?
6. Have you used in the past, if yes what and how long?
7. How did you recover? PCT? naturally?
8. Do you have full blood work and do you do it often? Baseline levels?
9. Past injuries and if they have any health issues past or present? Such as cancer, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc.

I sometimes don't even get to #6 and they change their minds.

It's not a complete list and I'm sure I could add more. Just gives me an idea of history and mindset.

mands

 

[mands]

I like to add a something to my above post. If they even hint at being inconvenienced about answering any of my questions. I will tell them to seek help elsewhere.

mands

 

[dnml]

4) GH use! Hmm well considering the half life of GH is < 20 minutes, it most certainly does not cause IR. (However as I've mentioned VERY high doses COULD create some issues with hyperglycemia

Regs
Jim

I agree with your position re: insulin, not just for noobs but essentially everyone who does not get paid to live this lifestyle, just my personal belief. .. But I don't agree that insulin isn't effective at helping the body utilize gh (and aas for that matter), esp at higher doses (of gh and aas).

Insulin use aside:

1. 20-30 min is the circulating half life. ... biological half life is closer to 10-18 hours.

2. I don't know what you consider "very high doses", but even a therapeutic "replacement dose" of ~3iu will cause significant increases to BG.... esp for those who believe you have to use gh for at least 6 mos for it to have a noticeable affect (totally disagree with this notion, but the point is if one is consistently raising their BG via GH and the free fatty acid dump into the bloodstream- the mechanism by which it leans the body out- for 6 months, I will put money on it that over 60-70% will develop temporary IR).

My point? IR is a reality of gh use and it's best for all of us- noobs included- to get a monitor and keep an eye on it and know when to lay off and how to restore IR once it becomes consistently elevated.

 

[Dr JIM]

Gosh now if you only evidence to support your bullshit such as prolonged GH use causes IR, then folks might believe the other crap you spew, kido!

Oh yea the half life I'm referring to is called the SERUM HALF LIFE, which of course should not be confused with the ACTIVE HALF LIFE.

The former is the time required for the steady state levels to decrease by ONE HALF while the latter is the amount of time required to reduce a substances "Biologic activity by one half.

Thus while the the BHL is very difficult to quantify the serum half life is NOT, and that's the reason most drug comparisons are made using the SERUM HALF LIFE, BOZO!

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh yea one more thing perhaps if you would spend a little less time running your mouth and a little more reading the posts you shave chosen to criticize, then you wouldn't need to ask uninformed questions like "hey dude what do you mean by VERY HIGH DOSES", duh!

Hey dude how do you propose you "noobs" monitor for the development of IR while using GH, LMAO

But wait Dr Jim I think the kid has developed a "new test for IR, Lol!

GO HOME!

 

[muscle96ss]

Gosh now if you only evidence to support your bullshit such as prolonged GH use causes IR, then folks might believe the other crap you spew, kido!

Oh yea the half life I'm referring to is called the SERUM HALF LIFE, which of course should not be confused with the ACTIVE HALF LIFE.

The former is the time required for the steady state levels to decrease by ONE HALF while the latter is the amount of time required to reduce a substances "Biologic activity by one half.

Thus while the the BHL is very difficult to quantify the serum half life is NOT, and that's the reason most drug comparisons are made using the SERUM HALF LIFE, BOZO!

Doc, I am curious why you believe that GH does not cause IR? I am not saying that I disagree with you as actually I am on the fence as I have heard some experts say that it does cause IR and some say it doesn't.

 

[dnml]

Lol you're such an over sensitive ass Jim.

I criticized your post? The mortal sin in Jim's world- it's not about the truth or "helping noobs" or harm reduction, it's about if one even disagrees with you, it's criticism and you get all butt hurt.

Congrats btw, you are soooo easy. So transparent. You fell for that even harder than I thought you would. Re-Read that above paragraph, that's truth amigo.

But back on track, I could EASILY cut and paste multiple legit studies proving my point, but the burden is on you. Lets see your proof that I'm wrong. Put up or shut up, and IME or IMO don't count you hack.

 

[dnml]

Oh yea one more thing perhaps if you would spend a little less time running your mouth and a little more reading the posts you shave chosen to criticize, then you wouldn't need to ask uninformed questions like "hey dude what do you mean by VERY HIGH DOSES", duh!

Hey dude how do you propose you "noobs" monitor for the development of IR while using GH, LMAO

But wait Dr Jim I think the kid has developed a "new test for IR, Lol!

GO HOME!

Seriously? I need to explain this to you? As I stated, buy a monitor and check fasting BG, if it's consistently elevated, what is happening with the pancreas and slin, BOZO?

Asking seriously, have you ever used gh? If so, at what dose and for how long?

Oh, and the question is more than legitimate: what is your opinion of "very high dose"?

 

[Dr JIM]

Doc, I am curious why you believe that GH does not cause IR? I am not saying that I disagree with you as actually I am on the fence as I have heard some experts say that it does cause IR and some say it doesn't.

Oh that's quite simple. Bc in the absence of another RF that I mentioned earlier, after some 15-20 years of use, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING GH being an ISOLATED RF
for IR.

 

[dnml]

@Dr JIM Gonna retract my statement re: not posting a study. For the benefit of others, I will. BTW I actually went quite easy on you, if you thought that was criticism you're gonna hate this.

You are dead wrong re: insulin's benign effect on gh. I still don't personally like the use of slin, but it ABSOLUTELY makes gh more effective.

For the study showing exogenous slins positive effects on gh, google: Growth hormone receptor modulators, Vita Birzniece & Akira Sata & Ken KY Ho, Reviews in Endocrine and Metabolic Disorders June 2009, Volume 10, Issue 2, pp 145-156

Couple of relevant excerpts:

In human studies, there is also evidence that insulin modulates the expression of GHRs. This is based on measurement of circulatory levels of GHBP. As GHBP is derived from proteolytic cleavage of the extracellular domain of the GH receptor, change in GHBP levels may reflect GH receptor status [73]. Low blood levels of GHBP occur in conditions associated with GHresistance such as malnutrition and catabolic states. This is exemplified in anorexia where GH levels are elevated, and levels of GHBP are low [74, 75]. ***Thus when insulin levels are low, high levels of GH does not translate into a rise in circulating IGFI [76–82].*** In type I diabetes, GHBP levels are low and associates with low IGF-I levels [83]. These investigations have also observed a significant positive correlation between levels of GHBP and total insulin dose, ***suggesting that GHR status in humans is dependent on adequate insulinisation [83].***

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There is also strong evidence that insulin modulates GHR signalling in addition to the effects on receptor expression and surface translocation. In rat hepatoma cells, low dose insulin administration results in GH-induced stimulation of JAK2 phosphorylation however high dose insulin treatment results in inhibitory effect [69, 86]. The effect of insulin on GHR function appears to be mediated by the PI-3 kinase and MAPK/ERK pathways [69, 87, 88]. It has been shown that insulin increases GH signalling by enhancing GHinduced activation of MAPK/ERK pathway through post signalling cross-talk [88].

In summary, insulin regulates GHR expression, translocation and GHR function. The regulation of GH receptor expression is complex and tissue dependent. Insulin stimulates hepatic GHR synthesis and GH binding but down-regulates GHR expression in kidney and bone tissue.

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Ok Hack, your turn. Post your proof.