Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Masters Power]

I personally feel that his early statement (Masters powers) was a bluff, and I do feel that u back him up, but you don't have to learn from me that any speculation is legitimate, I just think it doesn't get us to the truth, all tests confirmed the quality we declare on period

Karl I don't which statement I made you think "was a bluff". My original concern was that based on my experience here in the states with some very qualified and decorated analytical chemists, no reputable chemist that is capable of producing pharma grade GH would have anything to do with producing GH to be sold on the black market.

You actually somewhat answered the question when you explained that your chemist was actually working for a facility producing GH for R&D purposes although quite frankly that raised new concerns because R&D facilities don't have to meet nearly as high of standards as do pharma grade facilities as Dr. Jim has pointed out and you have agreed with earlier.

However, tonight you posted that your chemist messed up a batch because he wasn't familiar with human grade specifications which again doesn't ring true with my experience with the best analytical chemists.

In fact if any of the best AC's I deal with would be willing to talk about this kind of activity here is how it would have worked. I would have contacted one of the AC's who is a lab director and he would have asked me a series of very specific questions about what my concerns were and what information I was in need of. Next he would have said give me a couple of days to get back to you.

Generally, two or three days later he would call me back and say here is the number of Professor X who is one of the foremost experts in GH production in the world, he is expecting your call and is willing to try to help you get the answers you need.

You see, my experience with the best analytical chemists is unless a topic is there specific area of expertise they will not have more than a passing discussion not rather all of these guys network with each other. It may take four or five calls or more depending on how far from their expertise an issue is to get to the right guy but eventually they will get you there.

Your professor should absolutely know this and to say that he produces the GH which other universities use as the standard to test other GH's against but has to look up a standard to produce human grade GH rather than picking up the phone and calling any of several other experts in the field who should be on his speed dial defies logic.

 

[graniteman]

Ok - Granit - so far I followed any request of yours and commented honestly to any issue u claimed, your agenda is clear, and quite ridiculous

I was genuinely interested in this GH , I have read every page. The mere fact you claim to have invested milions raised eyebrows, the fact a gc\ms machine wasn't one of the instruments raised them higher. How can you tell if what you're making is gh or poison? Do you make batch after batch THEN test them after they have shipped and been used by customers? Sounds like a very bad business model.
I guess customers are your mass spec testing machines? Welts, pain? OHHH!! Better recall that batch!

Not to mention why one would invest millions in a black market gh manufacturing facility instead of merely establishing gh business contacts takes even more faith. With that type of money you could make many friends in high places at Pharm companies? Not to mention it would be much cheaper

But I will say the more I read and the more a few continue to talk the clearer it is becoming

 

[Western-Biotech]

Again u tell a story that sounds good to your ears and has not much with reality

Your accuse on your expert may pass, I apologize if made a wrong accusation

We aim for FDA license, all tests and quality issues will confirm this

I open the newspaper today and on the economic section read on recalls by the biggest brands on some issues, I may show u for instance that in a western country this year a thyroid medication was failed, it replaced, mistake may happen, the issue with the Somastim has nothing to do with its effect, and most users don't experience it as u may learn from honest customers, it did happen, it shouldn't, it's taken care and well learn soon from new feedback

If u like to contribute with assesing facts help with the cross tests we plan on coming batch

I state here that it'll meet any FDA standards - we may test it, and test my claims

 

[Western-Biotech]

Granit - u have some fuck up claims, obvious agenda, and great imagination

My tests are done in advance, and were confirmed by independent tests

You may talk to Dr jim and inquire about the cost of such venture so stop the BS nonsense, we'll make cross tests to the coming batch, I say again it'll meet any \FDA standards - help us if u like to but the nonsense doesn't has to do with facts

 

[muscle96ss]

Calm down Killa, I'm shaking in my Chuck Taylors here.

Maybe I'm wrong or it was someone else but I could have swore you said GH causes reactions like that?

Depends on what you call ''dirty''. I think improperly made GH meets the def of dirty especially when you look at it's base

Don't know about you but ''working'' with a guy in karls position means ''buying his gh''?

Your last two statements speak volumes to me. We have 2 good guys, actually one -you, mands to his credit, has pretty much stayed out of it other than releasing partial results from Jim, saying this gh is gtg. We also have more than one member complaining of welts and pain from injections.

Not impuning your ''rep'' just pointing out facts. You can puff up and jump up and down all you want. Also I don't know about you but I think the GH ''scene'' is great and quality is as good as you where you get it. Maybe Pro-M isn't where you should be shopping?

Firstly, no I never said that GH causes reactions like that. I have done probably over 5000 injections of GH in my lifetime and never once have I had a reaction like this to real GH(not saying this isn't real GH so please don't misinterpret this statement, just stating that it shouldn't cause a reaction like this). I actually mentioned this in response to a similar post you made earlier in the week as we are both in agreement on the fact that the reaction issue needs to fixed and is unacceptable. Karl is in agreement with this as well. as he has stated that in e-mail to me and publicly in this thread a couple of times. Secondly, I don't know what your definition of dirty is, but mine is that it is not clean which means that it causes an infection. Something that causes an allergic reaction or is an irritant due to a ph difference does not fit my definition of dirty. I get a similar reaction everytime I take DAC no matter what brand it is, but its certainly not dirty. Dirty can also mean lots of impurities but as we saw from Jim's tests that is not the case here. Thirdly, you are stating that buying someones products means that you are working with them. I have bought Karl's products on one occasion back in March so I guess by your definition I worked with Karl a while ago. I have also worked with a shitload of other people, some that are scammers that I will never work with again. So I am not sure what relevance "working with" has if that is your definition. Fourthly, I never stated that PM is where I do my shopping for GH or any other product. So while you are taking a cheap shot at PM, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. If you were to look in my fridge right now, the majority of the GH I have is a generic blue top from TSM although I do have a few kits of grey tops from TP from PM. I am waiting for someone to say that I am a shill and on their payroll as well.

 

[muscle96ss]

You keep saying this but Jim himself has stated many times he DID NOT release the complete results. Only enough to draw karl in.
Now if you or mands can prove this a lie that's one thing if not, you sound like a saleman
I'm just saying

What results weren't released? There was an 8 page lab report that was posted. When asked for a summary we were told the purity is 99.5% and that the chemist stated that it was good GH and even he would use it(or something similar, not sure of the wording). It was all posted on PM so you probably would have missed it. Then on this board lightspan and others(including Jim) hypothesized that Karl was just selling rebottled GH such as Humatrope. At that point the issue of the quality of the GH was OVER and DONE WITH!! The only question was whether or not he was manufacturing it himself. Now some 70 pages later people are still calling the quality of the GH into question. That is why I brought the fact that Jim did the testing into the fray because none of this tangent makes any sense whatsoever. Its obvious that people have an agenda and hear what they want to hear and ignore everything else. Its great that we have an uncensored forum where we can say whatever we want to say. The drawback as we are seeing here is that people can make a ton of baseless accusations with zero factual proof and carry on while ignoring the actual facts that ARE present.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

What results weren't released?

Karl's. I know why Karl continues to minimize his inability to provide testing data - he's FOS. I don't know why you and a few others continue to overlook that omission. That omission is significant. No makes GH without doing extensive testing but Karl has been - and continues to be - unable to provide any analytical data on his product. That is telling.

 

[biggerben69]

And the falling back on insults of a personal nature. I stated my thinking you weren't the best cold call sales guy around. You bring up comprehension and allege drug abuse? You give up much to early.
If we were on pm the jackals would've been called and you would go back to your dressing room for a cold drink and briefed on anything new.
Your opinion of big A and rajjin and PM as a whole has changed and you most likely won't deny that as it's clear you've jumped cars. Nothing wrong with that but you know existing on both types of boards being held in high regard is something thats not gonna happen for you as you're down the ladder some and are considered a soldier and expendable.
Many of us do consider Big A and rajjin corrupt. Italian Muscle always has...I always have. You now say you've has a moment of clarity or that you are simply more informed .
One thing I'm told by mutual friends and perhaps former friends is that people know what to expect from me on these boards and in the streets. Your coming to these conclusions about me at this point speaks to your changing gears and having whats important to you change. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's also a new perspective.
Good luck in your new endeavor. I only ask you don't attempt to make a mockery or too large a paycheck in places you cut your teeth and ran into guys like myself that are still there. You don't have anything we are interested in.

 

[muscle96ss]

Karl's. I know why Karl continues to minimize his inability to provide testing data - he's FOS. I don't know why you and a few others continue to overlook that omission. That omission is significant. No makes GH without doing extensive testing but Karl has been - and continues to be - unable to provide any analytical data on his product. That is telling.

Gman was referring to Jim's testing stating that he didn't finish the testing and that mands's tests were incomplete. But I do agree, it would be nice to see Karls tests that he said he would post. However, you and I both know that there is not a single test he could post at this point that is going to change some peoples minds here.

 

[muscle96ss]

Many of us do consider Big A and rajjin corrupt. Italian Muscle always has...I always have. You now say you've has a moment of clarity or that you are simply more informed ..

If I am not mistaken rajjin and IM have been communicating on good terms lately. IM can chime in if I am wrong but he mentioned it to me many months ago.

 

[muscle96ss]

Good luck in your new endeavor. I only ask you don't attempt to make a mockery or too large a paycheck in places you cut your teeth and ran into guys like myself that are still there. You don't have anything we are interested in.

The only paycheck I get comes directly from Medicare. Its your stupid ass comments like this one that have caused me to lose respect for you as you seem to have lost it.

 

[Western-Biotech]

I stated a set of complete tests which we'll submit as well for FDA approval later will be submitted in 3 weeks.

Each and every step must be well organized and coordinated, and being useful for future constant production.

Not sure why u ignore this - and I say in advance that we should arrange cross testing with u so u may learn that I do make the GH, or at least control the quality.

What u keep barking here for ?

Dr Jim tested it for perfect quality, u say I didn't submit all tests, I say fine, the tests I showed are complete and asses the quality, and it was proven, but u asked it and you'll get it - yes more test will be done just like u asked,

Anyone with interest in the truth pls stay tuned, and anyone who wants to refute my claims pls cooperate with the cross testings, and I say clearly to Millard that shame on him if he doesn't help us here as an objective 3rd party to examine the tests, if not my customers will keep supporting me, and some assclown will make up more BS, better get to a conclusion with some authorized opinion

 

[graniteman]

What results weren't released? There was an 8 page lab report that was posted. When asked for a summary we were told the purity is 99.5% and that the chemist stated that it was good GH and even he would use it(or something similar, not sure of the wording). It was all posted on PM so you probably would have missed it. Then on this board lightspan and others(including Jim) hypothesized that Karl was just selling rebottled GH such as Humatrope. At that point the issue of the quality of the GH was OVER and DONE WITH!! The only question was whether or not he was manufacturing it himself. Now some 70 pages later people are still calling the quality of the GH into question. That is why I brought the fact that Jim did the testing into the fray because none of this tangent makes any sense whatsoever. Its obvious that people have an agenda and hear what they want to hear and ignore everything else. Its great that we have an uncensored forum where we can say whatever we want to say. The drawback as we are seeing here is that people can make a ton of baseless accusations with zero factual proof and carry on while ignoring the actual facts that ARE present.

Let me inform those who continue to reference the lab studies I had performed as some pennacle of quality are flat out WRONG! "Dr Jims test" do not and did not define quality from a pharmaceutical standard, period. The quality of ANY drug is defined as its human efficacy in the ABSENCE of adverse effects. I mean after all, what good is any drug that "does it's job" but can't be used bc of intolerable side effects!

Rest assured based on existing pharmaceutical standards this crap would not have made it beyond the first human trial, bc of these issues. Whats even more important is no pharm company would have even tried to release it, bc the cost of a recall is prohibitive in addition to several law suits that WOULD HAVE BEEN filed. Think I'm kidding, not! We are talking about "big pharma" who has pockets full of money, so they can afford it. Hmm but K can not, really!

The fact is the adverse reactions that have occurred are totally unacceptable! Moreover the REQUIRED animal model studies very well could have detected the frequency, severity and causation of the existing adverse effects.

Ok so DOC what do you thin is wrong here? I honestly don't know because IM NOT FAMILIAR with the manufacturing processes but have long contended a considerable portion of that which has being distributed is RESEARCH GH.

Whats' that you ask? First and foremost R&D products are NOT approved for human use!
Why? Because they are NOT required to follow the same RIGOROUS SAFTEY requirements (many complain about bc of "big pharma") set forth by the FDA, WHO, CLIA ect.

Fact is R&D products are sold as such bc thats exactly what they are used for, the research and development of new drugs, equipment, standards or improvement of old products etc.

These drugs are NOT filtered, extracted, precipitated, solubilized, purified anywhere close to the FDA requirements.

So what can an HPLC MISS when purity is defined? Quite a few things actually depending upon the UVA, column and solvents used. But one thing chemical analyses will never match is the ability to determine how well or poorly a particular substance will perform from an IN-VITRO perspective. For that we need willing study subjects, and Karl found his on PED forums absent all the FDA red tape and required informed consent signatures.

Regardless on a personal and professional level I believe Karl should show some ethics and yank this stuff off the market immediately, just like the FDA would mandate he do.

Regs JIM

I dunno but it looks like he's disputing your and Mands reading of his tests. I'm just posting facts as they are presented, this many pages people tend to circle themselves

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I stated a set of complete tests which we'll submit as well for FDA approval later will be submitted in 3 weeks.

No, you stated on Sept 13 that you would post the tests in ONE WEEK. One week came and went a week ago. Now it's three weeks to post the tests. In three weeks you'll have another excuse.

What u keep barking here for ?

See below. You are FOS!

Bravo - Assume u refer to mess spec and AA seq - Should have results in a week, Forwarded to an independent lab, I'll show uncensored details to the admin so he may confirm it's a FDA approved lab

 

[muscle96ss]

I dunno but it looks like he's disputing your and Mands reading of his tests. I'm just posting facts as they are presented, this many pages people tend to circle themselves

I know that is what he is doing and that is why he is an assclown. Neither mand's nor myself read the tests as neither one of us had a clue what any of that meant. We were all going on what Jim told mands. If Jim wants to change his story some 70 pages later than he is a liar and I am not sure why everybody keeps sticking up for him(other than they must be shills and on his payroll, lol).

 

[graniteman]

What results weren't released? There was an 8 page lab report that was posted. When asked for a summary we were told the purity is 99.5% and that the chemist stated that it was good GH and even he would use it(or something similar, not sure of the wording). It was all posted on PM so you probably would have missed it. Then on this board lightspan and others(including Jim) hypothesized that Karl was just selling rebottled GH such as Humatrope. At that point the issue of the quality of the GH was OVER and DONE WITH!! The only question was whether or not he was manufacturing it himself. Now some 70 pages later people are still calling the quality of the GH into question. That is why I brought the fact that Jim did the testing into the fray because none of this tangent makes any sense whatsoever. Its obvious that people have an agenda and hear what they want to hear and ignore everything else. Its great that we have an uncensored forum where we can say whatever we want to say. The drawback as we are seeing here is that people can make a ton of baseless accusations with zero factual proof and carry on while ignoring the actual facts that ARE present.

I did not. Why? Because I thought the result would be used to further support the sales of an unproven product and Im damn glad those results are not a part of this fiasco!

What am I suggesting? Karl released pharm grade GH to a select few and bunk to the majority.

F me I've received 7 requests
"to sample this junk, stuff, GHRF, bunk" and three more with the same request "so K will have to give me a REFUND NOT MORE GH"

But maybe MH and UFC wanna chime in hear and lend a truthful synopsis!

 

[Western-Biotech]

CSB - there is no bigger liar then you, but here I'll just explain in case u just don't follow through - I planned to make AA seq - and proposed it for final 10 AA as accepted in FDA. Then Dr Jim said he wants the all seq, and of course said that it won't prove anything as I may manipulate the tests.

So I suggested the best I may offer - I'll make thorough tests incl' AA seq to the new batch, these same tests will be submitted later to some FDA. You make your tests. We make random orders and compare, all done in a blind mannev and on independent lab

So what is wrong here ?I'm sure u wanna me to make testsand then u may just post move BS and more lies , so NO , we'll do real random tests now

 

[Dr JIM]

Manipulate tests not K I've only said you would find reasons to MANIPULATE why you have not and will not perform them.

And true to form that's exactly what you have done.
Found excuses for your GH producing lab to NOT perform QA testing as currently accepted FDA AND USP guidelines dictate. .

Now that means ALL of the tests required by the FDA K not those YOU choose for convenience sake.

Shit Karl you didn't even perform a Mass Spec on the product and if you believe that's USP compliant your NUTS!

 

[Western-Biotech]

U are nuts if u think that any reasonable unbiased man actually trst anything u post

I showed my tests - the quality was confirmed by you

Lets say that you and me agree for the matter of this debate - for FDA purposes more tests need to be done, now help me, and help us, I'm serious and honest, test my product in a couple of weeks, I'll test it as I do so anyhow, we both sends to 3rd agreed party the results and we compare, we may do so on a regular basis, with time if we develop mutual trust I may send samples to u directly.

As a comment - u all know and agree that I work wit a team of experts, each of your ideas need to be raised to them, and we need a reasonable time to conclude the solution, I was actually about to run to a local FDA lab and do Dr Jims tests, but then again u would say I may manipulate it ... so lets solve this once and for all

 

[Western-Biotech]

And Dr Jim - reply to my PMs - if u do have any better idea how to settle this argument I'll cooperate.

You may talk in person on an anony skype call to my professor, maybe you will raise some ideas,

I say again that the new set of tests will be submitted later for FDA inspection, this is our goal, I don't think that for this specific batch, but the same exact tests will be used later for FDA approvals, so these tests are the most appropriate ones and I want the doc to confirm this