What are the best liver protectors for steroid cycling?

[bighunanballs]

I don't typically run orals but still rotate low dose NAC, UDCA, and milk thistle for general precaution/preventive.

TUDCA is more easily accessible but if you can get UDCA, might be worth looking into.



^good tips

I don't really plan on stopping the tbol and anavar cycles anytime soon lol. Appreciate the UDCA tip though I'll look into it.

 

[Ghoul]

I should have done more research I know it's been recommended around quite a few bodybuilding circles but I've never seen any studies or anything. Just gonna go the ol injectible l carnitine route with nac, tudca, milk thistle

Don't feel bad, nearly used it too, the recommendations were near universal for it.

Even if I had looked into it, there are a dozens of glowing "studies", all from India. Not one from a western country. Apparently this is a huge worldwide seller, and those positive studies (which always seemed a bit "off" and lacking the kind of data you'd expect from something claiming it improved liver health) were funded by entities tied to Liv.

It's a very popular product in India, and after seeing the hospitalized casualties of long term use, this team of docs and scientists decided it was time to bring the charade to an end.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I don't really plan on stopping the tbol and anavar cycles anytime soon lol.

Rock on brother.

 

[eery]

I don't typically run orals but still rotate low dose NAC, UDCA, and milk thistle for general precaution/preventive.

TUDCA is more easily accessible but if you can get UDCA, might be worth looking into.



^good tips

I believe TUDCA actually is superior to UDCA in its efficacy.

 

[4Drago]

Long breaks between cycles and trt. To real trt of no more then 150mg test will be the best thing for a liver to refresh and heal.

 

[DugATree]

Personally, I think TUDCA and NAC are the most effective. Liv52, milk thistle, and choline/inositol provide maybe some benefit, but are rather marginal.

However, liver support only does so much. You need to come off cycle back to a TRT dose for the liver to really heal. High androgen loads (superphysiological) prevent stem cells from regenerating the liver.

 

[Koosha]

I know this is old, but glutathione really is the best of the best. I don't understand why it's not used more in body building circles.

You're taking NAC in order to make glutathione, why not skip the middle man?


I use both granted, but I'm using GlyNAC-et which has a few different properties than regular NAC.

200mg of sub q glutathione EOD blows ANY liver protection out of the water.

Whats up! I currently do not take gear but am intersted in using injectable glutathione and choline/carnatine. is 200mg eod good for starting place the glutathione?

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Whats up! I currently do not take gear but am intersted in using injectable glutathione and choline/carnatine. is 200mg eod good for starting place the glutathione?

Absolutely

I personally like to compound lower concentration (100mg/ml) and use it daily. It doesn't welt up for a few days that way unlike 200mg/ml which will leave some hard welts for about a week after when used sub Q.

I started using Glutathione when I wasn't even running gear, it's something that honestly everyone should look into utilizing. I've even got my parents using it at this point.

I compound it myself because a.) it's way cheaper and b.) I can buffer the pH to 5.5 which other places don't do usually and it makes it far less painful to pin. I honestly cannot push unbuffered glutathione, it feels like a wasp sting. The pH is something like 2.1 in solution.

 

[Koosha]

Absolutely

I personally like to compound lower concentration (100mg/ml) and use it daily. It doesn't welt up for a few days that way unlike 200mg/ml which will leave some hard welts for about a week after when used sub Q.

I started using Glutathione when I wasn't even running gear, it's something that honestly everyone should look into utilizing. I've even got my parents using it at this point.

I compound it myself because a.) it's way cheaper and b.) I can buffer the pH to 5.5 which other places don't do usually and it makes it far less painful to pin. I honestly cannot push unbuffered glutathione, it feels like a wasp sting. The pH is something like 2.1 in solution.

I was planning on IM hopefully that changes the potential pip. I will touch base with the source and ask them some of these questions. I appreciate the response!

 

[bighunanballs]

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar.2024.1276313/abstract

@Intrepid seems the link is broken now was trying to find the article.

 

[Ghoul]

@Intrepid seems the link is broken now was trying to find the article.

The TLDR is that all the positive Liv52 "research" is super suspicious, coming out of no name researchers in India, and uniformly glowing reports. They're released like clockwork.

The idea that some guys in a 4th rate supplement company, which specializes in "hangover from alcohol and drug parties preventers" sold to tourists in SE Asia, developed an effective "Liver protector" by throwing together some random weeds, claiming they're from the Himalayas suggesting purity, to cast off the taint of Indian pollution is a joke, Credible reports of actual LIVER DAMAGE from long term Liv52 use in by docs in Indian hospitals suddenly disappear. I've seen it myself.

You want to protect your liver? Be conscious of what's hepatoxic and limit it.

Nearly every drug has been measured for its hepatoxic potential.

The liver is ever renewing as long as you don't exceed its capacity to do so. Have it checked for the level of liver fat and scarring. If you've progressed to stage 1 of non-fatty liver disease, as 60%+ of western adults have, undiagnosed, consider Tirz (or Reta) to activate those GIP receptors to quickly clear fat and reverse fibrosis so you maintain max liver capacity and don't go beyond the point of no return.

 

[bighunanballs]

The TLDR is that all the positive Liv52 "research" is super suspicious, coming out of no name researchers in India, and uniformly glowing reports. They're released like clockwork.

The idea that some guys in a 4th rate supplement company, which specializes in "hangover from alcohol and drug parties" develop an effective "Liver protector" by throwing together some random weeds, claiming they're from the Himalayas suggesting purity, to cast off the taint of Indian pollution is a joke, Credible reports of actual LIVER DAMAGE from long term Liv52 use in by docs in Indian hospitals suddenly disappear. I've seen it myself.

You want to protect your liver? Be conscious of what's hepatoxic and limit it.

Nearly every drug has been measured for its hepatoxic potential.

The liver is ever renewing as long as you don't exceed its capacity to do so. Have it checked for the level of liver fat and scarring. If you've progressed to stage 1 of non-fatty liver disease, as 60%+ of western adults have, consider Tirz (or Reta) to activate those GIP receptors to quickly clear fat and reverse fibrosis so you maintain max liver capacity and don't go beyond the point of no return.

Have you successfully found the previous article? It appears to have been scrubbed off the internet. Maybe wayback/archive.org and get it with the previous link

 

[Ghoul]

Have you successfully found the previous article? It appears to have been scrubbed off the internet. Maybe wayback/archive.org and get it with the previous link

The docs that wrote that report, with all the analysis reports identifying the heavy metals found in Liv52 (they must be brewing that shit in a lead caldron), were probably last seen being pushed into an unmarked van after getting off their shift at the Mumbai hospital where they worked.

Liv52 is a big seller and somebody's fortune is maintained by it.

 

[bighunanballs]

Frontiers in Pharmacology

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Sec. Gastrointestinal and Hepatic Pharmacology
Volume 15 - 2024 | doi: 10.3389/fphar.2024.1276313
SEVERE LIVER INJURY DUE TO THE PROPRIETARY HERBAL LIV.52® -CLINICAL OUTCOMES, TOXICOLOGY, AND CRITICAL REVIEW OF LITERATURE Provisionally accepted
Cyriac A. Philips Cyriac A. Philips *Arif H. Theruvath Arif H. TheruvathResmi Ravindran Resmi RavindranRizwan Ahamed Rizwan AhamedTharun T. Oomen Tharun T. OomenJinsha K. Abduljaleel Jinsha K. AbduljaleelSasidharan Rajesh Sasidharan RajeshAjit Tharakan Ajit TharakanPhilip Augustine Philip Augustine
Rajagiri Hospital, Kochi, India

Introduction
Liv.52® is a multi-herbal marketed on advertised claims for various liver diseases. However, there is a lack of high-quality clinical evidence supporting its use. A randomized trial in alcohol-related cirrhosis showed no benefits but increased death. We present the first series of liver injuries associated with Liv.52® and report on the clinical presentations, liver histopathology, possible mechanisms of injury, and detailed /toxicology of the herbal formulation retrieved from patients.
Methods
We identified 15 cases of herb-induced liver injury (HILI) linked to Liv.52® on a retrospective review of a prospectively maintained patient database between Jun 1, 2019, and Jun 15, 2023. All patients underwent a detailed diagnostic workup to exclude other competing causes for liver injury. Where possible, the implicated Liv.52® formulation was retrieved for analysis.
Results
We identified five patients with Liv.52®-induced HILI after reasonably excluding competing causes. Eighty percent were males, and all patients consumed the herbal supplement as per product label instructions. The median duration of herbal supplement intake was 57 days. Indications for use included "alcohol detox," reversal of fatty liver, and prevention of infectious hepatitis—patients presented with self-limiting acute hepatitis, acute severe liver injury, acute decompensation, and acute-on-chronic liver failure. Cholestatic pattern predominated. Lobular inflammation, hepatocellular necrosis and cholestasis were notable on liver biopsy. Supplements contained liver-damaging botanical ingredients and toxicology analysis revealed high levels of heavy metals and hepatotoxic organic/inorganic compounds due to poor manufacturing and adulteration.
Conclusion
The commonly used proprietary herbal supplement Liv.52® may cause severe liver injury which presents variably with a prolonged clinical course. Physicians and the public must be educated on the potential harms of consuming advertised and unscientific alternative medications.

Keywords: ACLF, DILI, Ayurveda, AYUSH, Himalaya

Received: 11 Sep 2023; Accepted: 15 Jan 2024.

Copyright: © 2024 Philips, Theruvath, Ravindran, Ahamed, Oomen, Abduljaleel, Rajesh, Tharakan and Augustine. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (CC BY). The use, distribution or reproduction in other forums is permitted, provided the original author(s) or licensor are credited and that the original publication in this journal is cited, in accordance with accepted academic practice. No use, distribution or reproduction is permitted which does not comply with these terms.

 

[Ghoul]

Frontiers in Pharmacology

7,922
Total views
45
Downloads

Sec. Gastrointestinal and Hepatic Pharmacology
Volume 15 - 2024 | doi: 10.3389/fphar.2024.1276313
SEVERE LIVER INJURY DUE TO THE PROPRIETARY HERBAL LIV.52® -CLINICAL OUTCOMES, TOXICOLOGY, AND CRITICAL REVIEW OF LITERATURE Provisionally accepted
Cyriac A. Philips Cyriac A. Philips *Arif H. Theruvath Arif H. TheruvathResmi Ravindran Resmi RavindranRizwan Ahamed Rizwan AhamedTharun T. Oomen Tharun T. OomenJinsha K. Abduljaleel Jinsha K. AbduljaleelSasidharan Rajesh Sasidharan RajeshAjit Tharakan Ajit TharakanPhilip Augustine Philip Augustine
Rajagiri Hospital, Kochi, India

Introduction
Liv.52® is a multi-herbal marketed on advertised claims for various liver diseases. However, there is a lack of high-quality clinical evidence supporting its use. A randomized trial in alcohol-related cirrhosis showed no benefits but increased death. We present the first series of liver injuries associated with Liv.52® and report on the clinical presentations, liver histopathology, possible mechanisms of injury, and detailed /toxicology of the herbal formulation retrieved from patients.
Methods
We identified 15 cases of herb-induced liver injury (HILI) linked to Liv.52® on a retrospective review of a prospectively maintained patient database between Jun 1, 2019, and Jun 15, 2023. All patients underwent a detailed diagnostic workup to exclude other competing causes for liver injury. Where possible, the implicated Liv.52® formulation was retrieved for analysis.
Results
We identified five patients with Liv.52®-induced HILI after reasonably excluding competing causes. Eighty percent were males, and all patients consumed the herbal supplement as per product label instructions. The median duration of herbal supplement intake was 57 days. Indications for use included "alcohol detox," reversal of fatty liver, and prevention of infectious hepatitis—patients presented with self-limiting acute hepatitis, acute severe liver injury, acute decompensation, and acute-on-chronic liver failure. Cholestatic pattern predominated. Lobular inflammation, hepatocellular necrosis and cholestasis were notable on liver biopsy. Supplements contained liver-damaging botanical ingredients and toxicology analysis revealed high levels of heavy metals and hepatotoxic organic/inorganic compounds due to poor manufacturing and adulteration.
Conclusion
The commonly used proprietary herbal supplement Liv.52® may cause severe liver injury which presents variably with a prolonged clinical course. Physicians and the public must be educated on the potential harms of consuming advertised and unscientific alternative medications.

Keywords: ACLF, DILI, Ayurveda, AYUSH, Himalaya

Received: 11 Sep 2023; Accepted: 15 Jan 2024.

Copyright: © 2024 Philips, Theruvath, Ravindran, Ahamed, Oomen, Abduljaleel, Rajesh, Tharakan and Augustine. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (CC BY). The use, distribution or reproduction in other forums is permitted, provided the original author(s) or licensor are credited and that the original publication in this journal is cited, in accordance with accepted academic practice. No use, distribution or reproduction is permitted which does not comply with these terms.

Great find.

Since you're what mobsters would refer to as "A slow learner", I suggest you cross off that visit to India