What John Kerry calls the "Mess in Iraq"

jarz said:
Appearently you dont know the pledge of allegiance. If you were an athiest, wouldnt it be forcing religion on you to pledge allegiance to a nation UNDER GOD?
Yes, it would. Not everyone believes in God. Those heathen bastards!
:D


Then don't say it. Or ask to leave the room. Sit outside the class romm until the class is done. What you fail to realize is that the athiest is intruding on my rights by wanting to do away with the pledge of allegiance. There really is no nutural ground.
 
jarz said:
Appearently you dont know the pledge of allegiance. If you were an athiest, wouldnt it be forcing religion on you to pledge allegiance to a nation UNDER GOD?
Yes, it would. Not everyone believes in God. Those heathen bastards!
:D
No, it wouldnt. Atheists could simply pass over that statement. Plus, surveys should that roughly 90% of Americans believe in god/a higher power. Plus, I was never in a school that REQUIRED anyone to say the Pledge and I think most schools are that way.
 
Bob Smith said:
No, it wouldnt. Atheists could simply pass over that statement. Plus, surveys should that roughly 90% of Americans believe in god/a higher power. Plus, I was never in a school that REQUIRED anyone to say the Pledge and I think most schools are that way.

Ok, point made. However, you have to take into consideration there are people who do not want their children exposed to the Pledge of Allegiance. In their opinion it is forcing religion. You have to respect that.
Students are allowed to discuss religion all they want. Teachers are not. That is as it should be. If you want your child to be taught religion throughout the school day, send them to a seminary or let them take seminary classes.

And yes, if you have to stand and place your hand over your heart while the pledge is recited and you dont want to, you are being forced.
 
jarz said:
Ok, point made. However, you have to take into consideration there are people who do not want their children exposed to the Pledge of Allegiance. In their opinion it is forcing religion. You have to respect that.
Students are allowed to discuss religion all they want. Teachers are not. That is as it should be. If you want your child to be taught religion throughout the school day, send them to a seminary or let them take seminary classes.

And yes, if you have to stand and place your hand over your heart while the pledge is recited and you dont want to, you are being forced.
Then the parents can tell their kids that they dont have to stand during the pledge or dont have to say the words and put their hand on their chest. People are free not to recite the words.

Plus, the guy out west that sued the school for having her girl say the pledge wasnt looking out for his daughter. Hes an atheist and the girl is a Christian (as is her mom). He didnt have custody either. He had no right to sue the school and take it all the way to the Supreme Court. And as such, the 9th Circuit court had no right to ban the pledge.
 
It is always the 5% that screws up everything. Look at faggots. Their loud whiny asses are getting all sorts of attention and coverage like they are the majority. The 1 or 2 kids who dont want to say it ruin it for the 95-98 that dont care or that do want to.
garyzilla said:
Then don't say it. Or ask to leave the room. Sit outside the class romm until the class is done. What you fail to realize is that the athiest is intruding on my rights by wanting to do away with the pledge of allegiance. There really is no nutural ground.
 
"you have to take into consideration there are people who do not want their children exposed to the Pledge of Allegiance. In their opinion it is forcing religion. You have to respect that."

I don't respect that. God forbid that poor little John and Mary are forced to say the pledge.

Next, we will need to ban the Declaration of Independence. It has the C word (ie Creator):

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
 
I dont want to have to take fucking spanish lessons and I dont want my kid to have to know that damn language. Talk about pissing on rights. The minority rules once again. Spanish should NOT be mandatory. Sorry about the rant
 
And I should be able to keep my own damn money instead of giving it to my SS-scamming uncle who is fully capable of getting a freakin job! Screw social security, screw welfare, screw the republicans and their killing of constitutional rights, screw the democrats and their wanting me to pay a fortune in taxes, screw the IRS, screw illegal immigrants, screw the FDA for banning ephedra, screw Congress for the upcoming ban on prohormones, screw the FCC for the violations on free speech, screw american car companies just because their cars suck, screw MuscleTech and their overpriced shitty supplements, screw United for losing my grandma at the Denver airport today, screw the mass media, screw the NCAA and USOC for Scheduling AAS, screw people who think Barry Bonds is natural, screw baseball, screw ESPN for shitty hockey coverage and for biased reporting, screw Californians just because, and screw me for bitching about all this stuff that will continue to go on as we all get screwed out of our hard-earned money because of lazy, low life pieces of shit that cant plan for their own retirement or actually work for a fuckin living. Screw em all!
 
Rod said:
I don't respect that. God forbid that poor little John and Mary are forced to say the pledge.

Next, we will need to ban the Declaration of Independence. It has the C word (ie Creator):

Um, they dont have to believe in God, regardless of what you believe in.... thats our FIRST AMENDMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the second item, you are getting totally rediculous. It is difficult to have an intelligent conversation or debate with a moron.
 
"It is difficult to have an intelligent conversation or debate with a moron."

Good point. I am too smart to even try. ;)
 
AirBorne said:
Here is some info that the media deems unworthy to be emphasized to the general public. Its no f-ckin wonder why so many people look down on our involvement in Iraq....all the info fed to us is NEGATIVE!!! We rarely EVER hear of the stuff listed below. We are constantly spoon fed the horrible incidents that take place on a daily basis. Enjoy...

A US Navy Chaplain's View of Iraq - Feb 2004

Making the rounds of GI e-mail traffic in Iraq these days is the following
inspiring missive by a US Navy Chaplain. It is reproduced below in its
entirety and exactly as written:

Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1:

The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active
duty (~60,000 Iraqis providing security to citizens).

Nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

Power generation hit 4,518 megawatts (Oct), exceeding prewar output.

All 22 Universities & 43 technical institutes/colleges are open

Nearly all primary and secondary schools are open.

Coalition has "rehabbed" 1,500+ schools (500 ahead of schedule).

Teachers earn from 12-25 times their former salaries.

All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

Doctors salaries are at least 8 times what they were under Saddam.

Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from almost zero to 12,000 tons.

Coalition has helped administer 22 million+ vaccinations to children.

Coalition has cleared 14,000+km of Iraq's 27,000 km of weed-choked canals
which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created
100,000+ jobs for Iraqi men & women.

Coalition has restored over 3/4 of prewar telephone services and 2/3+ of
potable water production.

4,900+ full-service telephone connections (~50,000 by year-end).

Commerce is expanding rapidly (bicycles, satellite dishes, cars, trucks,
etc.) in all major cities and towns.

95% of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are
opening accounts daily.

Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

The central bank is fully independent.

Iraq has one of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking
laws.

Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

Satellite TV dishes are legal.

Foreign journalists are not on "10-day visas" paying mandatory fees to the
Ministry of Information for minders. There is no such Ministry.

There are 170+ newspapers.

Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

A nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or

executive - of a representative government, now does.

In Baghdad alone, residents have selected 88 advisory councils.

Baghdad's democratic transfer of power (1st in 35 years); city council
elected its new chairman.

Iraqi Chambers of commerce, businesses, schools and professional
organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's
history, run the day-to-day business of government.

The Iraqi gov't regularly participates in international events.

Since July the Iraqi gov't has been represented in 24+ international
meetings, including UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank,
IMF and the Islamic Conference Summit.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that it is reopening 30+ Iraqi
embassies worldwide.

Shia religious festivals (all but banned) are no longer illegal.

For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala, thousands of Shiites celebrate
the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

The Coalition has completed 13,000+ reconstruction projects, large and
small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

Uday and Queasy are dead, and no longer feeding Iraqis to the zoo lions,
raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing
Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.

Children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the
government.

Political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

Millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

As a side effect, in neighboring countries, (1) Saudis will hold municipal
elections, (2) Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to
parents, (3) Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms,

The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded (first time) to an Iranian
(Muslim woman) who speaks out for human rights/democracy & peace.

Saddam is gone.

Iraq is free.

Little or none of this information has been published by the Press Corps
that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.

Iraq, under US lead control, has come further in six months than Germany
did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII.

Military deaths from fanatic Nazi's and Japanese numbered in the thousands
and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared. It took
the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let alone
attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that many people in our government and media
continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict has
been a failure. Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate
loss of our sons and daughters in this conflict, do you think any other
country in the world could have accomplished as much as the United States
and its coalition partners have in so short a period of time?

Karl Nielson LT, CHC, USNR 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) Chaplain
great thread bro!
 
jarz said:
Ok, point made. However, you have to take into consideration there are people who do not want their children exposed to the Pledge of Allegiance. In their opinion it is forcing religion. You have to respect that.
Students are allowed to discuss religion all they want. Teachers are not. That is as it should be. If you want your child to be taught religion throughout the school day, send them to a seminary or let them take seminary classes.

And yes, if you have to stand and place your hand over your heart while the pledge is recited and you dont want to, you are being forced.


I have been sitting here for a couple of days now reading this thread and trying to figure out a way to say something and not sound like a F**ing B**ch...gonna give it a try now....First off Jarz u make it sound like the Pledge of Allegiance is something bad, like they r being exposed to a way of life that is not moral or acceptable....IMO it has nothing to do with Religion and everything to do with respect...respect for the people who fought to make it possible for people in the country to be able to express their opinions and not have to worry about someone holding a gun to their heads...or feel threatened becuz they do not believe the same things or r not the same color or race or religion....The first thing my kids told me when they came home from the first day of school was mommy we learned the Pledge of Allegiance...They were proud of themselves for knowing the words that they really didn't and still don't understand...Kids r not forced to say the Pledge they are asked to stand out of respect for a flag that represents alot of things to everyone in this country.....Second thing....A friend of mine was over in Iraq when all this started..He got shipped over there right b 4 thanksgiving in 2002...I had no idea he was there until feb of 2003 when I got my first letter from him...He was one of the guys that were fueling the 3rd infantry division...In his letters to me he explained it this way, so that people I knew who did not understand could get it from his point of view.....We are here for alot of reason....My biggest reason is it is my job....and I think that we are doing something that will make a difference in peoples lives...I want your kids, my kids (if I ever have any) and everyone in this country to b able to go to bed at night and not have to worry about some crazy ass mofo who does not like the united states becuz of what we stand for to decide that he wants to blow up a couple places or people....I do not want to have to look at them and explain to them why the BAD GUYS had to blow up that building and hurt all those people, when I my self do not even really know the reason....It is becuz of people like my friend and others the we are able to express our opinions and live the way we want without having to worry about being executed becuz we do not believe the same thing the rulers of the country do....That is why I say we stand for the Pledge of Allegience out of respect not becuz we are forced too...
 
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