What to add to TRT with low normal SHBG? Low dose nandrolone, MENT or Primo?

[OnTRT]

On 140mg of test cypionate through a very popular online clinic, currently dosing .2ml EOD. Just finished up on 9.5 weeks of anavar I had prescribed by the same clinic. Felt amazing on anavar, haven't done bloods yet but I'm sure my SHBG and lipids are crushed. Pre anavar I was injecting subq 3 times a week and my SHBG was at 20 (16.5-55) it was 27 pre TRT over the years.

Am doing a lean bulk and slowly adding size. Nandrolone scares me because of the potential mental side effects, I was on SSRI for over 2 decades, so I wonder if that plays a role. MENT is interesting, but kind of a wild card, primo is too, but I think it'll cut my e2 down too far. A low or moderate dose seems to keep some people feeling good long term on TRT though. Nandrolone is offered through the clinic and would be 70-100mg I am guessing.

Looking for something long term, that pairs well with minimal side effects. Was very happy with anavar but can't stay on it long.

 

[Type-IIx]

Nandrolone: mental side effects
Primo: cuts down E2

What are your unverifiable factoids on MENT, just curious?

Are you doing e.o.d. pins because it "cuts down on E2" also?

I know I'm coming in a little aggressively here. I'm not directing any frustration at you, but rather the avalanche of anecdotes that led you to these beliefs.

 

[OnTRT]

Nandrolone: mental side effects
Primo: cuts down E2

What are your unverifiable factoids on MENT, just curious?

Are you doing e.o.d. pins because it "cuts down on E2" also?

MENT seems to convert into methylestrogen and cause weird uncontrollable e2 sides in some people.

I am doing EOD just to cut down on side effects period, my E2 was 36 on the sensitive test and 30 on the standard when doing .236ml 3 times a week. It was 8-11 natty on the standard test. So I am not a heavy aromatizer and it was basically crashed before trt.

Got tired of the 2 day lull on injecting and switched to eod and feel better. I know I would be daily on MENT ace.

 

[Type-IIx]

MENT seems to convert into methylestrogen and cause weird uncontrollable e2 sides in some people.

I am doing EOD just to cut down on side effects period, my E2 was 36 on the sensitive test and 30 on the standard when doing .236ml 3 times a week. It was 8-11 natty on the standard test. So I am not a heavy aromatizer and it was basically crashed before trt.

Got tired of the 2 day lull on injecting and switched to eod and feel better. I know I would be daily on MENT ace.

OK, this is a fine post bro. I would note though that E2 36 on E2 sensitive vs 30 on bioassay when doing 3x weekly dosing is well within normal fluctuations, don't view such deviations as a result of anything you're doing with administration. 2x weekly vs e.o.d., I know what I'd go with given the 30 vs. 36 E2 values.

MENT: it does indeed seem plausible it cause weird uncontrollable estrogenic effects due to its aromatizing to 17alpha-methylestradiol.

Since you're on TRT the potential HPG axis suppression of MENT is irrelevant to you, so it probably boils down to management of estrogenic side effects. Those are the two reasons I don't like it too much anyway.

So it would seem objectively: Primo is usually a decent choice at low doses for TRT guys, but if you can get bloodwork to support any apparent E2 sides, PLEASE post the bloodwork somewhere on Meso so there's something more than just 1,000,000 bros saying it. And if you don't have low E2 sides, still please post it. We definitely need original lab work showing Primo effects on E2 (I suspect <=0.05% of people actually get blood work on Primo).

Nand: it'd be nice to be fully legit and have the provider monitoring you on that front. So consider that also.

 

[OnTRT]

OK, this is a fine post bro. I would note though that E2 36 on E2 sensitive vs 30 on bioassay when doing 3x weekly dosing is well within normal fluctuations, don't view such deviations as a result of anything you're doing with administration. 2x weekly vs e.o.d., I know what I'd go with given the 30 vs. 36 E2 values.

MENT: it does indeed seem plausible it cause weird uncontrollable estrogenic effects due to its aromatizing to 17alpha-methylestradiol.

Since you're on TRT the potential HPG axis suppression of MENT is irrelevant to you, so it probably boils down to management of estrogenic side effects. Those are the two reasons I don't like it too much anyway.

So it would seem objectively: Primo is usually a decent choice at low doses for TRT guys, but if you can get bloodwork to support any apparent E2 sides, PLEASE post the bloodwork somewhere on Meso so there's something more than just 1,000,000 bros saying it. And if you don't have low E2 sides, still please post it. We definitely need original lab work showing Primo effects on E2 (I suspect <=0.05% of people actually get blood work on Primo).

Nand: it'd be nice to be fully legit and have the provider monitoring you on that front. So consider that also.

I actually did the standard and sensitive on the same day.

My goal is no sexual side effects, hair is a concern, my hair sucks now, I do worry that primo will finish it off. Then there's the whole finding legit stuff that isn't just test prop or who knows what. Some people say primo cut their e2 in half, and I don't have enough e2 to spare that. I guess I could do a mini blast of test for a bit and run it solo, but am worried about a lot more side effects vs just adding a low dose of another compound.

You're right though, you don't see a lot of blood work comparison!

The only issue with nandrolone is if it causes mental or sexual side effects, it takes weeks or longer to clear out of the system, and then it's doing the opposite of what I got on TRT for in the firsf place.

 

[Theworm]

It’s a hard question, legal and legit deca, vs who knows what plus legality of primo etc.

I’m 43 and same thinking as you and I really think hgh is the answer. With that said, I don’t think deca at 70-100 will cause much mental issues and still add lean gains over time. Look at the hiv studies, guys gained blm on 200 mg every other week. Main issue for me with deca is its supposed to be toxic to vascular endothelial

 

[MaintenanceGuy]

I like adding primo. Nandralone messes with my head. They all do to some extent. Dbol and tbol are good additions. Haven't got real var yet. I do notice after i run orals I'm worn out and it takes a bit to come back prob cuz I'm not a young buck anymore.

 

[OnTRT]

It’s a hard question, legal and legit deca, vs who knows what plus legality of primo etc.

I’m 43 and same thinking as you and I really think hgh is the answer. With that said, I don’t think deca at 70-100 will cause much mental issues and still add lean gains over time. Look at the hiv studies, guys gained blm on 200 mg every other week. Main issue for me with deca is its supposed to be toxic to vascular endothelial

I have see two people between here and Reddit have visible signs of heart damage on low dose deca but others not have any issue at all. It kind of scares me, the legality part is the main advantage, as well as being hair safe. Plus I'm like the tin man so any collagen synthesis would be nice

 

[OnTRT]

I like adding primo. Nandralone messes with my head. They all do to some extent. Dbol and tbol are good additions. Haven't got real var yet. I do notice after i run orals I'm worn out and it takes a bit to come back prob cuz I'm not a young buck anymore.

Yeah I worry about that considering as I come off of SSRI's years ago, I was sitting in a parking lot with my gun to my head and breathing really heavily 3 years ago.

Everybody I ever knew that ran dbol back in the day turned into a water bag, but this was pre the internet getting big and they were all just winging it off of gym lore. No idea what they were doing overall.

T bol is interesting, but I suppose I'm stuck waiting for a bit after finishing the anavar the other day, and I can get anavar from the clinic, so not sure if trying something else As far as orals would be worth it vs going back on the anavar later? Not sure how long to wait either way

 

[MFAAS]

I have see two people between here and Reddit have visible signs of heart damage on low dose deca but others not have any issue at all. It kind of scares me, the legality part is the main advantage, as well as being hair safe. Plus I'm like the tin man so any collagen synthesis would be nice

Possibly. Perhaps they also have other things they aren't sharing that played into the heart damage. Any online anecdotes, such as Reddit, needs to be taken with s grain of salt.

Lots of guys have blasted deca or npp and have zero heart issues. Not saying it's harmless, just throwing in something to encourage a more holistic view of things.

why not just take time off then take the anavar again?

IMO your best bet would be to just up your test for a blast then go back down to TRT.

 

[OnTRT]

Possibly. Perhaps they also have other things they aren't sharing that played into the heart damage. Any online anecdotes, such as Reddit, needs to be taken with s grain of salt.

Lots of guys have blasted deca or npp and have zero heart issues. Not saying it's harmless, just throwing in something to encourage a more holistic view of things.

why not just take time off then take the anavar again?

IMO your best bet would be to just up your test for a blast then go back down to TRT.

One of them had before and after EKG's and there was a noticeable difference in a short period of time. I am older than both my Dad and Grandad were when they had heart attacks and I am 39, however my calcium ct score was 0 two years ago.

I thought about blasting the test up to 300-350 or more, but am thinking that may bring a lot more sides, but I haven't forgotten that "test is best".

I would do the anavar again, just not sure how long to take off. Was looking for soenthing I could run longer term, such as the lose dose deca, MENT or Primo. You may be right about the test blast though

 

[Theworm]

What about an 8 week blast of prop and oxandrolone? Short and sweet

 

[OnTRT]

What about an 8 week blast of prop and oxandrolone? Short and sweet

Isnt the PIP awful with prop, and bigger conversion to DHT? I gotta wait and see how demolished my lipids are from this run on anavar and then I don't know how long to wait. Anavar felt great

 

[MFAAS]

What about an 8 week blast of prop and oxandrolone? Short and sweet

This is what I am thinking too as the best option @OnTRT

I'm not debating that they have cardiac issues, but you just don't know it's ONLY from the nandrolone. They could have any number of other things going on. Diet, other preexisting conditions, family history (like you), breathing issues. Regardless you Are right to be cautious with the history.

I have to agree that 8 weeks of test prop and anavar would be a solid cycle. Or maybe 8 weeks test prop with the last 6 weeks adding in anavar, just to reduce the lipid damage a little. I would run 50 mg per day anavar, myself. No more.

 

[MFAAS]

Isnt the PIP awful with prop, and bigger conversion to DHT? I gotta wait and see how demolished my lipids are from this run on anavar and then I don't know how long to wait. Anavar felt great

You are overconcerned with the hair man. It's gonna happen. I was balding before Anabolics. They really didn't change my head hair at all. Just made me grow more hair on my back. Literally I've run test nop, tren, anavar, MENT, mast, proviron... none of them have changed my hair at all. Some tiny bit more DHT in test prop vs test C isn't gonna be the make or break difference for your hairline lol XD

Otherwise if you're that concerned then look into DHT inhibitors.

 

[OnTRT]

This is what I am thinking too as the best option @OnTRT

I'm not debating that they have cardiac issues, but you just don't know it's ONLY from the nandrolone. They could have any number of other things going on. Diet, other preexisting conditions, family history (like you), breathing issues. Regardless you Are right to be cautious with the history.

I have to agree that 8 weeks of test prop and anavar would be a solid cycle. Or maybe 8 weeks test prop with the last 6 weeks adding in anavar, just to reduce the lipid damage a little. I would run 50 mg per day anavar, myself. No more.

I believe there was a dr that has done deca for over 20 years non stop, so apparently it doesn't give everybody issues.

Outside of 3 days thet I took 48.5mg, I did 24mg of anavar, ended up being like 9.5 weeks. It felt GREAT.

Why prop over just upping the cyp? I am already extremely prone to PIP, not sure what the deal is there, still working it out

 

[OnTRT]

You are overconcerned with the hair man. It's gonna happen. I was balding before Anabolics. They really didn't change my head hair at all. Just made me grow more hair on my back. Literally I've run test nop, tren, anavar, MENT, mast, proviron... none of them have changed my hair at all. Some tiny bit more DHT in test prop vs test C isn't gonna be the make or break difference for your hairline lol XD

Otherwise if you're that concerned then look into DHT inhibitors.

I have noticed some more hair loss so far, masteron and proviron didn't kill your hair?

I made the decision to avoid finasteride for now, going to microneedle, use minoxidil and probably try latanoprost even though it's expensive. I was thinking about RU or topical dutasteride but RU seems sketchy as fuck, and topical dutasteride from a reliable supplier that isn't half a planet away is hard to come by.

 

[Theworm]

Isnt the PIP awful with prop, and bigger conversion to DHT? I gotta wait and see how demolished my lipids are from this run on anavar and then I don't know how long to wait. Anavar felt great

Prop had no pip from wells pharmacy or empower, zero.
If concerned about DHT, oxandrolone and primo would be an issue.

 

[OnTRT]

Prop had no pip from wells pharmacy or empower, zero.
If concerned about DHT, oxandrolone and primo would be an issue.

I'd have to get prop UGL, as they aren't going to give me an RX for MORE t lol. That is cool that it doenst burn.

Anavar seemed to cause some hair loss but not a lot, I suppose because I wasn't running a lot. Primo is a concern for sure

 

[Theworm]

I believe there was a dr that has done deca for over 20 years non stop, so apparently it doesn't give everybody issues.

Outside of 3 days thet I took 48.5mg, I did 24mg of anavar, ended up being like 9.5 weeks. It felt GREAT.

Why prop over just upping the cyp? I am already extremely prone to PIP, not sure what the deal is there, still working it out

That was Nelson Vergil (sp?) but I think he stopped the deca because he had a heart attack