What to use instead of nolvadex

[Jimmyinkedup]

That isn't the only reference Jimmy but regardless, if someone is overly sensitive to estrogen and one drug works more than 50% of the time whereas the other only about 10% of the time does that not say anything to you? Also consider the fact that SERMs are superior in almost every other circumstance as well



Have you ever had gyno?
Yes I got bunk stane a few years ago and for the first time ever I experienced the joy that is gyno! LOL Luckily i hopped on ralox relatively early and it quickly got it undetectable and from that point forward my ai rtotcol was adequate to prevent it from returning.


This is where we disagree. An AI will effectively manage the E2 levels of the user but not prevent gyno. The studies back this up as well as the anecdotal experiences of doctors and users.



I do not argue with this. I don't recommend throwing in a SERM just bc and I do recommend managing estrogen levels.

I know you arent one for just throwing things in just because. I think if your solely looking at gyno prevention and what is most effective I certainly wouldnt argue that a serm is.
IF and this is a BIG IF, your sole goal was to prevent gyno. My goal in running the ancillaries I do are to enable me to run aas as safely and side effect free as possible. I have found that in my case, gyno falls under the umbrella of me properly managing my e2 level with an ai. I really do not think that is at all unique. Honestly I dont understand how someone could. The fact is it is pretty easy to make the correlation between e2 levels being manged or not and gyno occurring or not occurring.
Lets look strictly at our circumstances, the one where exogenous androgens are being introduced. How many cases of gyno occur when estrogen is not elevated? Not many, in fact i would almost go so far as to say gyno will not occur without the presence of excess estrogen. That being said how can someone say that an ai, in our circumstances, is not a very effective gyno prevention tool? It most certainly is! Were it not the majority of aas users would in fact need to resort to using a serm because in the doses that we take in aromatizing androgens it would be almost impossible NOT to get gyno yet here we are, the majority of people , and I mean the vast majority, that manage e2 with an ai do not in fact get gyno.

 

[Beastmoderock]

it is not and i feel the same about you as well so ill just drop it. an ai would keep gyno away with MOST cycles. things liek deca and drol are more complicated i agree, but even with deca i found using ai lessens prog and other related issues.
yes i remember scallys posts and think he is very off on this. the guy knows alot of stuff and it worth a look at but sure as hell not on everything and his childish behavior in that thread and others to me showed insecurity and ego (on high horse)... well i just left it be. his analogy liek the one about people attacking a casle was flawed in my op, let them attack but have a good wall? how about stopping the unrest in firstplace.

i can post studies showing AI use helps gyno i can show studys SERM use helps gyno, not the point. both work on the same compounds, whats optimal in my op is not a SERM on cycle.
managing e2 with most basic aas compounds like dbol, test, methyltest and even deca (to a degree) will prevent gyno. like fuck man i know from my own exp, and from people and from research. scally and you are wrong on this . but im done arguing it believe what you want and i will do the same man.
like the fact some crash estro using ai just to get ride of gyno shows it helps, though i DO NOT rec doing this, off cycle i would rec a serm to do damage control after the fact, for not using an ai and managing e2 in most cases...

anyways good debate i guess.

ps, Llewellyn, William. is off base on alot of his stuff. specially his cycles... he has basic understanding, but his book is good for that and the pics. along with basic endocrine info. iv read more than one. but just look at the cycles he rec's most look like what a noob would post. no exp, just research IMO

So, if I start to feel symptoms or control bloat should I then start taking arimedex? Like I have stated before, I never had gyno issues, but do get moon face. Also, would you use it when cruising? Furthermore, how long to take it bc heard it can affect cholesterol. Thanks bro learning a lot from your posts

 

[Beastmoderock]

it is not and i feel the same about you as well so ill just drop it. an ai would keep gyno away with MOST cycles. things liek deca and drol are more complicated i agree, but even with deca i found using ai lessens prog and other related issues.
yes i remember scallys posts and think he is very off on this. the guy knows alot of stuff and it worth a look at but sure as hell not on everything and his childish behavior in that thread and others to me showed insecurity and ego (on high horse)... well i just left it be. his analogy liek the one about people attacking a casle was flawed in my op, let them attack but have a good wall? how about stopping the unrest in firstplace.

i can post studies showing AI use helps gyno i can show studys SERM use helps gyno, not the point. both work on the same compounds, whats optimal in my op is not a SERM on cycle.
managing e2 with most basic aas compounds like dbol, test, methyltest and even deca (to a degree) will prevent gyno. like fuck man i know from my own exp, and from people and from research. scally and you are wrong on this . but im done arguing it believe what you want and i will do the same man.
like the fact some crash estro using ai just to get ride of gyno shows it helps, though i DO NOT rec doing this, off cycle i would rec a serm to do damage control after the fact, for not using an ai and managing e2 in most cases...

anyways good debate i guess.

ps, Llewellyn, William. is off base on alot of his stuff. specially his cycles... he has basic understanding, but his book is good for that and the pics. along with basic endocrine info. iv read more than one. but just look at the cycles he rec's most look like what a noob would post. no exp, just research IMO

So, if I start to feel symptoms or control bloat should I then start taking arimedex? Like I have stated before, I never had gyno issues, but do get moon face. Also, would you use it when cruising? Furthermore, how long to take it bc heard it can affect cholesterol. Thanks bro learning a lot from your posts

 

[Juced]

So, if I start to feel symptoms or control bloat should I then start taking arimedex? Like I have stated before, I never had gyno issues, but do get moon face. Also, would you use it when cruising? Furthermore, how long to take it bc heard it can affect cholesterol. Thanks bro learning a lot from your posts

if on cycle with compounds known to raise estro i would not wait for sides because whether or not gyno is coming super high estro is not healthy. so i would run it from the start of cycle to the start of pct. I would rec blood work to dial it in and know how you react to compounds and doses and over time you will learn what affects you more or less.

i would use a low dose from start and get bloods half way to double check or up dose over a couple weeks if you feel AI is not doing enough. norm i rec 0.25mg eod of dex, some do better with 0.5mg, but keep in mind doses and personal genetics play a role in what dose you will need to optimally control e2 so this is just a guideline.
using the AI during cycle i found helps some bloat (though most is diet related imo) and acne along with bp and keep gyno away even with bigger cycles.

while cruising you need to be a little more careful because using a lower amount than used to but the same amount of AI or near it could lead you to suppress estrogen too much. if using hrt or near hrt dose i would rec using an ai but would also strongly rec getting blood work.

how long you can take it? well the thing is i feel most reported heightened cholesterol levels is due to over suppression of estrogen and not necessarily the AI itself IMO. and keep in mind some aas will do this regardless.
example: i use letro almost year round, but my bloods have always been good (im lucky even on a nice cycle they are sometimes slightly elevated but in norm, i avoid orals generally) and i dont crash my estro. this is on cycle and on higher end hrt ( very very small doses of letro) but with letro it works very well and is easy to over do it and i feel why soomany report not liking letro.
I rec dex though its easy to use and harder to over use IMO.


If using AI long term just make sure to get regular blood work and make your your estro is not too high or too low, specially if your new to using AI's much.
if you end up with gyno froma cycle and are off cycle with norm estro use a SERM and not an AI to crash estro. or if it starts coming up during cycle and you up your AI dose i would rec a low dose of SERM while waiting for higher AI dose to take effect (couple weeks i rec ) then stop serm and see how you do.
remember sensitive nips doesn not mean you have gyno, hormones can do it, but obviously keep an eye on it if you start to notice things like that. if you feel what is like peas growing behind the nip then deff deal with it.