What’s the current state of generic GH

[Ateam2023]

But are you triple filtering it immediately prior to use? Otherwise you're gonna become immune to your own endogenous hGH. Or get mad cow disease.

no

 

[Toaster]

Or maybe it's a non-issue and some people tend to hyper-focus on certain issues. This wouldn't be the first time.

I know the more people read the same thing, the more likely they are to believe it and begin to parrot it themselves. That hasn't happened to me and this.

What is the prediction for bodybuilders who abused hGH 30 years ago? Is there some health mystery afflicting them that hGH antibodies could explain? Anything bad that happens for the rest of your life can be blamed on using unfiltered hGH?

This is exactly the case.

What you have here is someone who is bringing up good discussion. Unfortunately he then takes the information he finds and makes up an unqualified assumption that the data often doesn't directly support.

You had people in here talking about filtering GH. A dumb idea in itself.

The potential for immune system reactions is a real thing. However it's hard to separate fact from stimulant induced mania.

Again, great to talk about...but having tons of time to "research" and hypothesize does not make one qualified to draw conclusions where data doesn't exist.

 

[readalot]

You had people in here talking about filtering GH. A dumb idea in itself.

Why?

Elucidate on the benefit to risk of filtering GH with 0.2 um filter. Speak to the effect of shear stress and interfacial stress on the protein in terms of pro / con with respect to aggregates. Net benefit or harm for UG GH?

The Effect of Shear on the Structural Conformation of rhGH and IgG1 in Free Solution - PubMed

The effect of hydrodynamic forces on proteins in free solution, also referred to as shear stress in multiple drug substance and drug product processing steps, was investigated by means of in situ and inline biophysical measurements. The use of a quartz Couette cell in combination with a circular...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Another hint:

Investigation on fouling mechanisms for recombinant human growth hormone sterile filtration - PubMed

During sterile filtration of recombinant human growth hormone solutions, severe membrane fouling was experienced compared to other protein preparations of significantly higher molecular weights and concentrations. This phenomenon was attributed to rhGH aggregation/adsorption occurring in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

More info:

Interfacial Stress in the Development of Biologics: Fundamental Understanding, Current Practice, and Future Perspective - PMC

Biologic products encounter various types of interfacial stress during development, manufacturing, and clinical administration. When proteins come in contact with vapor–liquid, solid–liquid, and liquid–liquid surfaces, these interfaces can ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[29trt]

Evolution of the immune system in humans from infancy to old age - PMC

This article reviews the development of the immune response through neonatal, infant and adult life, including pregnancy, ending with the decline in old age. A picture emerges of a child born with an immature, innate and adaptive immune system, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Figure - PMC

This article reviews the development of the immune response through neonatal, infant and adult life, including pregnancy, ending with the decline in old age. A picture emerges of a child born with an immature, innate and adaptive immune system, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Children’s Immune Systems Differ From Adults. Here’s What That Could Mean for COVID-19

Children’s innate immune responses might be behind their milder COVID-19 infections. But much less is known about how much kids are spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others.

www.discovermagazine.com

COVID survival rates by age were another recent example of all this.

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023 | Statista

Between the beginning of January 2020 and June 14, 2023, of the 1,134,641 deaths caused by COVID-19 in the United States, around 307,169 had occurred among those aged 85 years and older.

www.statista.com

Again posting studies that need allot of extrapolation and interpretation to line up with your claims....
Explain to me who those studies help your cause?
As I see it they prove my point that children have a developing highly reactive and not tuned immune response that prevents proper handling of viruses they come into contact with hence getting sick allot and what happens when they get sick from a foreign pathogen{ maybe some strange GH aggregates}? Oh yeah their immune system goes nuts overreacts they get higher fever and they develope antibodies! ! ! Go figure...
An adulte immune system is already fully programmed and is still flexible and can adapt but like all systems in the body it gets lazier and a freak immune response is unlikely for not so pathogenic stuff....like I don't know.... GH...

COVID on the other hand freaked SOME peoples immune system to such a degree that it almost killed them but that is because it's mechanism was new enough to the body to cause an overreacting immune response....

I am not denying that some people will get bad reactions to GH or render it inactive but most will have a very reduced immune reaction because it is not a huge threat to the body...

 

[29trt]

And I will say this again ,show us a study with adult relatively healthy ,non pregnant individuals on GH and huge doses of immune suppressing AAS.

 

[29trt]

Having said all that I still support the idea of getting relevant information from our community,meaning as many people as possible that are on gear and GH should get tested for gh antibodies.
I still haven't found a place to get mine done as I unfortunately do not reside in the land of freedom.

Maybe this is the missing bit of information on why pharma GH has better effects in some people vs Ugl...

 

[Ghoul]

This is exactly the case.

What you have here is someone who is bringing up good discussion. Unfortunately he then takes the information he finds and makes up an unqualified assumption that the data often doesn't directly support.

You had people in here talking about filtering GH. A dumb idea in itself.

The potential for immune system reactions is a real thing. However it's hard to separate fact from stimulant induced mania.

Again, great to talk about...but having tons of time to "research" and hypothesize does not make one qualified to draw conclusions where data doesn't exist.

What you have here is a "know nothing", who sees the opportunity to gain credibility in the eyes of other shallow, binary, thinkers. Nuance is alien to such people. With very limited cognitive resources, they can only deal with certainties. Attempting to foresee problems which aren't right in front of them, and take measured steps to avoid them on the balance of probabilities is not possible for knuckle draggers like this.

These facts are indisputable:

-Immunogenicity to protein drugs cause a host of, often difficult to quantify, negative outcomes, ranging from a temporary reduction in efficacy, to death.

-Aggregates are a major, if not the primary factor in inducing immunogenic reactions.

-The steps taken in pharma produced drugs to minimize aggregation are not used in UGL peptides. In the absence of aggregate control, larger quantities of aggregates will be present.

Therefore, reducing aggregates is prudent to reducing risk and potential harms.

Advocating against the simple steps required to minimize this risk factor is "harm induction", not harm reduction.

 

[29trt]

What you have here is a "know nothing", who sees the opportunity to gain credibility in the eyes of other shallow, binary, thinkers. Nuance is alien to such people. With very limited cognitive resources, they can only deal with certainties. Attempting to foresee problems which aren't right in front of them, and take measured steps to avoid them on the balance of probabilities is not possible for knuckle draggers like this.

These facts are indisputable:

-Immunogenicity to protein drugs cause a host of, often difficult to quantify, negative outcomes, ranging from a temporary reduction in efficacy, to death.

-Aggregates are a major, if not the primary factor in inducing immunogenic reactions.

-The steps taken in pharma produced drugs to minimize aggregation are not used in UGL peptides. In the absence of aggregate control, larger quantities of aggregates will be present.

Therefore, reducing aggregates is prudent to reducing risk and potential harms.

Advocating against the simple steps required to minimize this risk factor is "harm induction", not harm reduction.

Easy on the insults there .. I'd rather be on the knuckle dragging spectrum than the forum goblin that spends most of his existence worrying about everything ,side...
as you will eventually find out there are infinite variables and even if you filter your peptides some other thing will eventually get you...reducing one small variable is not going to reduce harm in the big picture...
People using these peptides in the first place is a huge health gamble....
And what ,you think your GLP-1 are safe? just because you have shit genetics and they help you control appetite... A little biased are we now....

 

[Sampei]

This is exactly the case.

What you have here is someone who is bringing up good discussion. Unfortunately he then takes the information he finds and makes up an unqualified assumption that the data often doesn't directly support.

You had people in here talking about filtering GH. A dumb idea in itself.

The potential for immune system reactions is a real thing. However it's hard to separate fact from stimulant induced mania.

Again, great to talk about...but having tons of time to "research" and hypothesize does not make one qualified to draw conclusions where data doesn't exist.

I don't see any reason against filtering peptides..if one doesn't want to do it fine but let's not write shit like it's harmful to filter a fucking peptide.

I mean we can still keep the discussion on a good level without resorting to complete utter bullshit like the one you just dropped.

If you have ANY literature how it is nonsense to filter HGH I'll gladly read it and apologize.

Until then, don't.

 

[AlexDavis43]

And I will say this again ,show us a study with adult relatively healthy ,non pregnant individuals on GH and huge doses of immune suppressing AAS.

Easy on the insults there .. I'd rather be on the knuckle dragging spectrum than the forum goblin that spends most of his existence worrying about everything ,side...
as you will eventually find out there are infinite variables and even if you filter your peptides some other thing will eventually get you...reducing one small variable is not going to reduce harm in the big picture...
People using these peptides in the first place is a huge health gamble....
And what ,you think your GLP-1 are safe? just because you have shit genetics and they help you control appetite... A little biased are we now....

It's a big nothingburger and the goal posts are constantly shifted.

First, making posts about mad cow disease and people becoming immune to their own endogenous hGH.

Then, it's "you can't say there's zero possibility of something going wrong!"
Of course the possibility is not zero but people have been abusing hGH for decades.

The analogous argument for AAS is "just because you didn't lose an ass cheek, doesn't mean it's fine!" More goal post shifting.

Unnecessary fearmongering.

Sincerely,
Knuckle Dragger, PhD

 

[AlexDavis43]

I don't see any reason against filtering peptides..if one doesn't want to do it fine but let's not write shit like it's harmful to filter a fucking peptide.

I mean we can still keep the discussion on a good level without resorting to complete utter bullshit like the one you just dropped.

If you have ANY literature how it is nonsense to filter HGH I'll gladly read it and apologize.

Until then, don't.

Filter peptides as much as you'd like. I think it's cool that people are learning these techniques anyway.

Just chill with the fearmongering, like unfiltered peptides are gonna cause mad cow disease or autoimmunity in otherwise healthy adults.

 

[Yonith]

I’m also in the save your money camp. We’ve seen enough people pull bloodwork to show it’s legit. I’m at ease with it.

 

[readalot]

You had people in here talking about filtering GH. A dumb idea in itself.

 

[Lord Commander]

Which HGH generic at the moment is the most available and/or with a good quality/price ratio? I would go for Meditrope but the black tops mess with my sleep. Can only dose them several hours before sleeping but not before bed. Mauve tops haven't been available in Europe for at least a year. QSC is now most likely history. So what else are there available in Europe?

 

[Ateam2023]

Which HGH generic at the moment is the most available and/or with a good quality/price ratio? I would go for Meditrope but the black tops mess with my sleep. Can only dose them several hours before sleeping but not before bed. Mauve tops haven't been available in Europe for at least a year. QSC is now most likely history. So what else are there available in Europe?

there's a thread with a price/comparison chart that is kept pretty current, @MyNameIsJeff(Thank you) i believe is the man behind that chart, ,

 

[ppenavaa]

Which HGH generic at the moment is the most available and/or with a good quality/price ratio? I would go for Meditrope but the black tops mess with my sleep. Can only dose them several hours before sleeping but not before bed. Mauve tops haven't been available in Europe for at least a year. QSC is now most likely history. So what else are there available in Europe?

Opti gray tops, Lobster Domestic.

 

[Lord Commander]

Opti gray tops, Lobster Domestic.

Opti is not possible for me but Lobster looks really good at least regarding the price. Much cheaper than Provider.

 

[RaddishPork]

I have used generic GH from about 4 vendors now and feel as though I'm getting the same benefits across the board. All testing at 96% or higher from the cheapest of cheap qsc to US domestics at a higher price tag.

The only time I really felt negative sides was when I ran qsc's in the first few weeks I started to actually use it. I was running it alongside test and deca so the water retention became unbearable and i was waking up every night with my arms completely numb and tingling if I slept wrong. I came off for a week, restarted at a lower dose and tapered up, the problem went away.

I'll grab some name brand pharma in the near future but so far haven't had any reason to not stick with generics.

 

[Toaster]

I don't see any reason against filtering peptides..if one doesn't want to do it fine but let's not write shit like it's harmful to filter a fucking peptide.

I mean we can still keep the discussion on a good level without resorting to complete utter bullshit like the one you just dropped.

If you have ANY literature how it is nonsense to filter HGH I'll gladly read it and apologize.

Until then, don't.

You're asking for literature on Ghoul's paranoid conclusion? That's impossible to do, and my point. It's great to bring up the topic, but be realistic about where the actual data ends and paranoid delusions begin.

Filtering GH isn't a recommendation by any manufacturer. Why is that? Especially if death were a side effect as Ghoul suggests.

You're free to filter your GH. However, the most likely outcome is that you will be throwing some of your money in the trash to avoid side effects you've never experienced.

Investigation on fouling mechanisms for recombinant human growth hormone sterile filtration - PubMed

During sterile filtration of recombinant human growth hormone solutions, severe membrane fouling was experienced compared to other protein preparations of significantly higher molecular weights and concentrations. This phenomenon was attributed to rhGH aggregation/adsorption occurring in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Membrane fouling in sterile filtration of recombinant human growth hormone - PubMed

The most troublesome problem encountered during the sterile filtration of protein solutions is membrane fouling. This article presents our study on sterile filtration of a model protein, recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH). Scanning electron microscopy (SEM) analysis shows that 0.22-mum...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022354915505984

I could make up a bunch of theories based on those papers. Filtering GH seems to have potential complications. Filtering UGL GH may have even more? Or not? This is where Ghoul can swoop in to make up something he thinks the data says.

Not sure what part of my posts imply it's "harmful" to filter peptides. I'm not the one fear mongering here.

There could be argument made that it's harmful to your wallet to be injecting expensive water that you may or may not contain the peptides post filtration.

What you have here is a "know nothing", who sees the opportunity to gain credibility in the eyes of other shallow, binary, thinkers. Nuance is alien to such people. With very limited cognitive resources, they can only deal with certainties. Attempting to foresee problems which aren't right in front of them, and take measured steps to avoid them on the balance of probabilities is not possible for knuckle draggers like this.

These facts are indisputable:

-Immunogenicity to protein drugs cause a host of, often difficult to quantify, negative outcomes, ranging from a temporary reduction in efficacy, to death.

-Aggregates are a major, if not the primary factor in inducing immunogenic reactions.

-The steps taken in pharma produced drugs to minimize aggregation are not used in UGL peptides. In the absence of aggregate control, larger quantities of aggregates will be present.

Therefore, reducing aggregates is prudent to reducing risk and potential harms.

Advocating against the simple steps required to minimize this risk factor is "harm induction", not harm reduction.

Can you show some examples of studies showing where they have compared groups who filter GH and those who don't?

How many people have been saved from death from filtering GH? What were the percentages of efficacy between the filtered and non-filtered users? Or is this something you extrapolated from your own ideas?

You already tried to claim pharma is using elaborate excipients vs UGL and it was pointed out that Serostim does not.

I think it's a valid concept, but you try to use your own ideas as fact. They're not factual in most cases because you're using data to confirm a bias.

Apparently you do this for "credibility " on a steroid forum and you feel like I'm here to steal that from you?

I consider myself to be an average person with no special credentials in regards to just about everything mentioned here. I'm not delusional about it though.

Maybe you're more than a dude who wastes excessive time making up his own conclusions to other people's research stuff for credibility though? Do you have any published papers on some of your findings?

 

[songsofpyramids]

Literally all pharma gh is filtered prior to packaging lol. You even posted a study describing safely using an industrial pump and industrial .22um filter to successfully reduce aggregates.

There are ways to participate in this conversation and get your feelings across that people will respond to. This probably isn’t going to make anyone respond with any more depth than this.