What’s the current state of generic GH

[Ateam2023]

I'm currently taking 5 ius of qsc 15 iu kits (red cap) it has a small amount of dimer, but i have no extra water retention or any other side effects from this "dimerization" ,,,, i recently switched from an hgh with no dimer, same dose same affects, "no real sides" , i might add my "hydration, diet, cardio are all on point ,,,,,

 

[Ateam2023]

When i was first starting hgh, my diet as well as "hydration " were not at par level, the end result was lower leg edema, once i got properly hydrated and diet in check as well as "cardio" it all went away ,,,,, food for thought,,,,,

 

[songsofpyramids]

When i was first starting hgh, my diet as well as "hydration " were not at par level, the end result was lower leg edema, once i got properly hydrated and diet in check as well as "cardio" it all went away ,,,,, food for thought,,,,,

I really think personal habits with hydration, diet, and sleep need to be locked in as much as possible to experience the true benefits of hgh. Not that you won’t get anything from it without them, just that I think the full positive impact is worth the effort of getting the other pieces going full. Cardio I found also pulled the water weight out.

 

[egruberman]

Kind of a silly analogy but it's kind of like spending $1200 on a pair of Edward Green oxfords versus $200 Allen Edmonds. Both are great: the EG's are certainly not an order of magnitude "better" than AE's. But if that $1000 means little, then the arguably small difference in quality means everything.

No, it's not like that at all. I can cut apart either pair of those shoes and explain the very significant differences to you and why one costs $1000 more than the other.

I have researched this question quite extensively and nobody can give me a detectable, measurable, objective reason why pharma GH might perform better than UGL GH that tests well.

Serum IGF-1 vs. dose is the same. Excipients are similar enough and cheap enough that if that were the difference, UGL vendors would switch. There's mammalian cell derived and E. Coli derived with Serostim being the former, but supposedly mammalian cell derived is *more* difficult to properly purify and offers no benefit. Many non-UGL "generic" pharma producers use E. Coli derived. Genotropin, I believe is one.

The only difference I've been able to identify is "feels". I'm not using the word sarcastically either. The people that report the feels are people that I know and respect.

I wouldn't have any difficulty affording pharma, but I just don't feel compelled to bother. Sourcing it is a hassle and the net benefit of GH is only a fractional part of my program that wouldn't justify 10x the cost of everything else.

If I were a pro, struggling to grow, I might consider it, but I'm not.

 

[Zeus088]

No, it's not like that at all. I can cut apart either pair of those shoes and explain the very significant differences to you and why one costs $1000 more than the other.

I have researched this question quite extensively and nobody can give me a detectable, measurable, objective reason why pharma GH might perform better than UGL GH that tests well.

Serum IGF-1 vs. dose is the same. Excipients are similar enough and cheap enough that if that were the difference, UGL vendors would switch. There's mammalian cell derived and E. Coli derived with Serostim being the former, but supposedly mammalian cell derived is *more* difficult to properly purify and offers no benefit. Many non-UGL "generic" pharma producers use E. Coli derived. Genotropin, I believe is one.

The only difference I've been able to identify is "feels". I'm not using the word sarcastically either. The people that report the feels are people that I know and respect.

I wouldn't have any difficulty affording pharma, but I just don't feel compelled to bother. Sourcing it is a hassle and the net benefit of GH is only a fractional part of my program that wouldn't justify 10x the cost of everything else.

If I were a pro, struggling to grow, I might consider it, but I'm not.

Very interesting and helpful. This was another thought I was having but couldn’t put words to it. Being 44 years old, can I get the long term benefit of GH from a trusted UGL source (recognizing there are differences). It wasn’t a part of my program at all, and competing is not a goal, but as I age can I still get the benefit from a UGL product. I utilize more affordable compounds for growth/body composition. Thanks!

 

[bjjgear]

No, it's not like that at all. I can cut apart either pair of those shoes and explain the very significant differences to you and why one costs $1000 more than the other.

I have researched this question quite extensively and nobody can give me a detectable, measurable, objective reason why pharma GH might perform better than UGL GH that tests well.

Serum IGF-1 vs. dose is the same. Excipients are similar enough and cheap enough that if that were the difference, UGL vendors would switch. There's mammalian cell derived and E. Coli derived with Serostim being the former, but supposedly mammalian cell derived is *more* difficult to properly purify and offers no benefit. Many non-UGL "generic" pharma producers use E. Coli derived. Genotropin, I believe is one.

The only difference I've been able to identify is "feels". I'm not using the word sarcastically either. The people that report the feels are people that I know and respect.

I wouldn't have any difficulty affording pharma, but I just don't feel compelled to bother. Sourcing it is a hassle and the net benefit of GH is only a fractional part of my program that wouldn't justify 10x the cost of everything else.

If I were a pro, struggling to grow, I might consider it, but I'm not.

You're just poor. And that's perfectly fine with me.

 

[egruberman]

You're just poor. And that's perfectly fine with me.

It would be difficult for me to prove otherwise without doxxing myself, but if it lends any credibility to my statement I’ll donate $100 to your favorite charity today, provided I can do so in an anonymous verifiable fashion.

 

[Ateam2023]

It would be difficult for me to prove otherwise without doxxing myself, but if it lends any credibility to my statement I’ll donate $100 to your favorite charity today, provided I can do so in an anonymous verifiable fashion.

$100 , you are broke aha

 

[Ghoul]

No, it's not like that at all. I can cut apart either pair of those shoes and explain the very significant differences to you and why one costs $1000 more than the other.

I have researched this question quite extensively and nobody can give me a detectable, measurable, objective reason why pharma GH might perform better than UGL GH that tests well.

Serum IGF-1 vs. dose is the same. Excipients are similar enough and cheap enough that if that were the difference, UGL vendors would switch. There's mammalian cell derived and E. Coli derived with Serostim being the former, but supposedly mammalian cell derived is *more* difficult to properly purify and offers no benefit. Many non-UGL "generic" pharma producers use E. Coli derived. Genotropin, I believe is one.

The only difference I've been able to identify is "feels". I'm not using the word sarcastically either. The people that report the feels are people that I know and respect.

I wouldn't have any difficulty affording pharma, but I just don't feel compelled to bother. Sourcing it is a hassle and the net benefit of GH is only a fractional part of my program that wouldn't justify 10x the cost of everything else.

If I were a pro, struggling to grow, I might consider it, but I'm not.

I agree psychosomatic effects will always play a big role in "feels". There is a huge difference in terms of pharma vs UGL formulations however.

The excipients used in pharma hgh are far, far more comprehensive than UGL, which is limited to one or two ingredients. This is because preventing aggregation is crucial to minimizing immunogenicity, something UGL (and their customers) don't give a shit about. Aggregation also wastes gh, as it's ineffective in aggregated form.

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.


QSC, probably the biggest seller of UGL HGH, only uses mannitol as an excipient. There is literally nothing to prevent degradation or aggregation. Combine that with crappy BAC water and it's going to go downhill even faster. Those products of degradation are very likely to cause side effects.

Compare that to Norditropin:

histidine, poloxamer 188, phenol, mannitol, HCl/NaOH

Or Genotropin:

dibasic sodium phosphate, glycine, mannitol, metacresol, monobasic sodium phosphate

Here's a list of the major brands and their excipients. They're not including those additional chemicals for no reason:

Table 8, Description of Somatropin Products - Somatropin (Genotropin) for Subcutaneous Injection - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[egruberman]

QSC, probably the biggest seller of UGL HGH, only uses mannitol as an excipient

Is this something you know for certain? When asked they’ve mentioned mannitol, but I’d be surprised if they weren’t also using buffering agents.

The excipients used in pharma hgh are far, far more comprehensive than UGL, which is limited to one or two ingredients.

The reconstituted forms of pharma HGH have a long list of excipients, the purpose of which I presume to extend the shelf life. I’m working from memory here, but my recollection is that the lyophilized forms have a much shorter list of excipients similar to what we’d likely find in UGL products.

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.

This, at least is something objective that can be tested. I haven’t done the research is there an easy way to test the level of aggregation?

My last working theory on this topic was that intramuscular IGF-1 would vary, but testing that would require several muscle biopsies, a $500 test kit, a $2k instrument to proceeds the test kit and a centrifuge, which I’m sure I could find relatively cheaply. I wasn’t keen on doing a bunch of self-biopsies though.

 

[egruberman]

$100 is what I might spend on lunch or a drink later or give to a homeless guy. Point being, I won’t notice it. If that makes me broke, then so be it.

I ain’t rich, still a normal guy with a normal job, but I’m doing okay and while I’m fine tossing off a portion of my fun budget for the day to buy some credibility from an Internet rando, I still have some other fun later that I’m looking forward to.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

You're just poor. And that's perfectly fine with me.

It would be difficult for me to prove otherwise without doxxing myself, but if it lends any credibility to my statement I’ll donate $100 to your favorite charity today, provided I can do so in an anonymous verifiable fashion.

$100 is what I might spend on lunch or a drink later or give to a homeless guy. Point being, I won’t notice it. If that makes me broke, then so be it.

I ain’t rich, still a normal guy with a normal job, but I’m doing okay and while I’m fine tossing off a portion of my fun budget for the day to buy some credibility from an Internet rando, I still have some other fun later that I’m looking forward to.

I know a charity that accepts XMR donations. I'm willing to broker this interaction and ensure the anonymity of it.

Might I propose the charity of choice? "TrenboloneTax's 3bills fund"

Let me know if this is amenable to you 2 fine gents @egruberman @bjjgear

I can promise this charity will use this money wisely. You're welcome to audit the use of funds.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.

Who in the fuck takes a week to go through a vial of GH? Even the largest vial of GH only lasts 3 days TOPS in my fridge.

Spoiler: What's this?

Very serious, but, humor is the only intent.

 

[Benf15harp]

Who in the fuck takes a week to go through a vial of GH? Even the largest vial of GH only lasts 3 days TOPS in my fridge.

Spoiler: What's this?

Very serious, but, humor is the only intent.

 

[Ateam2023]

Who in the fuck takes a week to go through a vial of GH? Even the largest vial of GH only lasts 3 days TOPS in my fridge.

Spoiler: What's this?

Very serious, but, humor is the only intent.

No time for any aggregate to form , hopefully ,,,

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I'm just trying to reduce my immunogenicity response in addition to lowering the chance I'm injecting harmful aggregates. Harm reduction at it's finest, bby.

 

[readalot]

I know a charity that accepts XMR donations. I'm willing to broker this interaction and ensure the anonymity of it.

Might I propose the charity of choice? "TrenboloneTax's 3bills fund"

Let me know if this is amenable to you 2 fine gents @egruberman @bjjgear

I can promise this charity will use this money wisely. You're welcome to audit the use of funds.

Man you guys are fucking cheap. 4 figures min or gtfo!

3 figs only flies in QSC thread.

 

[readalot]

XMR

 

[readalot]

I’ll donate $100

What a plebe.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Who in the fuck takes a week to go through a vial of GH? Even the largest vial of GH only lasts 3 days TOPS in my fridge.

Spoiler: What's this?

Very serious, but, humor is the only intent.

So do you take insulin? Some of the internet gurus stated anything over 4iu is a waste without insulin. Something about a synergistic effect. I know AIDS patients take big ass doses without insulin, so I'm assuming they are talking about maximizing the effects.