What’s the current state of generic GH

[songsofpyramids]

Some of the internet gurus stated anything over 4iu is a waste without insulin

I’ve gone up to 8iu with no slin, and maybe I didn’t get the maximal benefits I would have with slin, but I can very much attest to 8iu having significantly more impact than 4iu daily. 8iu I did start to see my blood sugar creeping up and had to meal time excessively to keep it steady.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

So do you take insulin?

Sometimes. Thanksgiving? Yes.

All you can eat sushi? Yes.

Day to day basis? No.

More curious about A1C bloods on 15mg reta per week and 12 - 16iu GH per day while eating like a jackass. Bit of an experiment.

Some of the internet gurus stated anything over 4iu is a waste without insulin. Something about a synergistic effect.

Think it depends why you're taking GH and how hard you're pushing food. Additional insulin I believe will help create more IGF1, so from a bulking perspective, insulin is likely not only beneficial but necessary to control BG in a longer progressive phase.

But I'm mostly using GH for soft tissue benefits, and fat loss / staying lean, which doesn't make sense to use insulin alongside of for the most part.

 

[bbingislife1234]

Sometimes. Thanksgiving? Yes.

All you can eat sushi? Yes.

Day to day basis? No.

More curious about A1C bloods on 15mg reta per week and 12 - 16iu GH per day while eating like a jackass. Bit of an experiment.

Think it depends why you're taking GH and how hard you're pushing food. Additional insulin I believe will help create more IGF1, so from a bulking perspective, insulin is likely not only beneficial but necessary to control BG in a longer progressive phase.

But I'm mostly using GH for soft tissue benefits, and fat loss / staying lean, which doesn't make sense to use insulin alongside of for the most part.

For me the gh keeps me lean and even offset the fat gain of insulin by ALOT. Then again dosage of 7iu-10ii so not the 2iu health benefits.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

For me the gh keeps me lean and even offset the fat gain of insulin by ALOT. Then again dosage of 7iu-10ii so not the 2iu health benefits.

For sure. I usually don't need insulin for BG control even on big GH doses, since I'm usually eating low carb and closer to maintenance.

The way I see it, better fat loss / staying lean without insulin, so I don't see a reason to use it FOR ME if the goal isn't to get bigger and no issues with BG.

 

[bjjgear]

It would be difficult for me to prove otherwise without doxxing myself, but if it lends any credibility to my statement I’ll donate $100 to your favorite charity today, provided I can do so in an anonymous verifiable fashion.

A photo of your Edward Green collection would suffice.

 

[bjjgear]

Sometimes. Thanksgiving? Yes.

All you can eat sushi? Yes.

Day to day basis? No.

More curious about A1C bloods on 15mg reta per week and 12 - 16iu GH per day while eating like a jackass. Bit of an experiment.

Think it depends why you're taking GH and how hard you're pushing food. Additional insulin I believe will help create more IGF1, so from a bulking perspective, insulin is likely not only beneficial but necessary to control BG in a longer progressive phase.

But I'm mostly using GH for soft tissue benefits, and fat loss / staying lean, which doesn't make sense to use insulin alongside of for the most part.

My A1C on 18 IU per night in one bolus was 5.1! No berberine, no GLP-1's, nothing. I think the GH blood glucose concerns are way overblown and almost exclusively related to diet. Guys on GH typically think they can eat like shit and let the GH do the work.

 

[Benf15harp]

I'm just trying to reduce my immunogenicity response in addition to lowering the chance I'm injecting harmful aggregates. Harm reduction at it's finest, bby.

ok you win Mr. Perfect lol

 

[MA11]

My A1C on 18 IU per night in one bolus was 5.1! No berberine, no GLP-1's, nothing. I think the GH blood glucose concerns are way overblown and almost exclusively related to diet. Guys on GH typically think they can eat like shit and let the GH do the work.

One gets deceived by the fact that you can eat like a pig on hgh and stay lean. It's helluva drug.

 

[bjjgear]

One gets deceived by the fact that you can eat like a pig on hgh and stay lean. It's helluva drug.

It's a huge downside of the PED game and in my mind the difference between use and abuse when folks use them to replace healthy habits.

 

[MA11]

It's a huge downside of the PED game and in my mind the difference between use and abuse when folks use them to replace healthy habits.

Absolutely

 

[Toaster]

I agree psychosomatic effects will always play a big role in "feels". There is a huge difference in terms of pharma vs UGL formulations however.

The excipients used in pharma hgh are far, far more comprehensive than UGL, which is limited to one or two ingredients. This is because preventing aggregation is crucial to minimizing immunogenicity, something UGL (and their customers) don't give a shit about. Aggregation also wastes gh, as it's ineffective in aggregated form.

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.


QSC, probably the biggest seller of UGL HGH, only uses mannitol as an excipient. There is literally nothing to prevent degradation or aggregation. Combine that with crappy BAC water and it's going to go downhill even faster. Those products of degradation are very likely to cause side effects.

Compare that to Norditropin:

histidine, poloxamer 188, phenol, mannitol, HCl/NaOH

Or Genotropin:

dibasic sodium phosphate, glycine, mannitol, metacresol, monobasic sodium phosphate

Here's a list of the major brands and their excipients. They're not including those additional chemicals for no reason:

Table 8, Description of Somatropin Products - Somatropin (Genotropin) for Subcutaneous Injection - NCBI Bookshelf

So confident one might think this was fact and not just one of your methed out psychotic theories.

 

[readalot]

Good summary of all excipients and even small section on aggregation. We know the role of each excipient in there.

New insight into the importance of formulation variables on parenteral growth hormone preparations: potential effect on the injection-site pain - PMC

Reducing injection-site pain (ISP) in patients with chronic conditions such as growth hormone deficiency is a valuable strategy to improve patient compliance and therapeutic efficiency. Thus understanding different aspects of pain induction ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

See Table 3. Comprehensive.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

My A1C on 18 IU per night in one bolus was 5.1! No berberine, no GLP-1's, nothing. I think the GH blood glucose concerns are way overblown and almost exclusively related to diet. Guys on GH typically think they can eat like shit and let the GH do the work.

Agree with you about GH BG concerns overblown.

You’re also dickskin lean lol so that helps.

For a big boy pounding food and adding several pounds per month or more, BG can definitely trend higher depending on how long the progressive phase.

I guess context is pretty important. I can’t think of something that will wreck A1C faster than GH mega dosing + a shitty diet + appreciable caloric surplus.

 

[readalot]

So confident one might think this was fact and not just one of your methed out psychotic theories.

Where is the conjecture in his statements?

We know what's in pharma GH. We know the role of each excipient.

All that's left is to identify what's in the UGL products. Do you dispute the composition in UGL product he stated?

 

[bjjgear]

I've been ramping up the cardio. Losing mass unfortunately but the legs are starting to look like dicks:

 

[readalot]

I've been ramping up the cardio. Losing mass unfortunately but the legs are starting to look like dicks:

View attachment 306838

Well done!

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I've been ramping up the cardio. Losing mass unfortunately but the legs are starting to look like dicks:

View attachment 306838

Posts like these make me excited to become functional again and not a high dose AAS gorilla.

Nice dicks!

 

[Ghoul]

So confident one might think this was fact and not just one of your methed out psychotic theories.

What the fuck are you talking about retard?

Let me demonstrate what resulted from your mother's poor decision making one night.

I don't like to go into the evidence too deeply because it's TLDR and I'm not here to educate idiots like you.

I'll make an exception for the benefit of others.

Patients on growth hormone are closely monitored for the expected progress and IGF levels while on treatment. If those aren't maintained, they're tested for anti-growth hormone antibodies, which result from an immunogenetic reaction to rHGH.

If high "titers" of anti-growth hormone antibodies are found, the options are:

-Increase the dose to overcome immunogenicity.

-Take a break and try again when (if) the level of antibodies goes down.

-Switch brands

-Stop treatment

Here's a table with the levels of antibodies in patients who's results weren't as expected. and the percentage of rHGH neutralized.

These reactions develop in response to high quality PHARMA formulations, not UGL trash, stored in uncontrolled temps, reconstituted to some random PH, into "patients" who aren't monitored for response or antibodies.

I'm sure that unlike pharma, UGL can't possibly induce the same loss of effectiveness right?



The patients who had the strongest immunogenic responses (The RIA number), 10,11, and 15, completely stopped responding to rHGH. This happened AFTER 10-23 months of daily rHGH injections. All were changed to another brand. 10 and 11 had no improvement and treatment failed entirely. 15 was able to continue with the new brand, immunogenicity was reduced, and growth resumed.

The other patients kept growing, but at a slower rate due to increased inhibition of rHGH.

So either I'm a crackpot, or you're the product of a crackwhore. For the sake of your mother's honor, I'm sure you'll be able to demolish this "theory" with your own evidence.


PS: The same anti-GH Antibody tests are available at walk in testing centers like Quest, for $269, in case anyone feels like GH isn't working like it used to and wants to know if this is the reason.

 

[Ateam2023]

What the fuck are you talking about retard?

Let me demonstrate what resulted from your mother's poor decision making one night.

I don't like to go into the evidence too deeply because it's TLDR and I'm not here to educate idiots like you.

I'll make an exception for the benefit of others.

Patients on growth hormone are closely monitored for the expected progress and IGF levels while on treatment. If those aren't maintained, they're tested for anti-growth hormone antibodies, which result from an immunogenetic reaction to rHGH.

If high "titers" of anti-growth hormone antibodies are found, the options are:

-Increase the dose to overcome immunogenicity.

-Take a break and try again when the number of antibodies go down.

-Switch brands

-Stop treatment

Here's a chart with the levels of antibodies in patients who's results weren't as expected. and the percentage of rHGH neutralized.

These reactions develop in response to high quality PHARMA formulations, not UGL trash, stored in uncontrolled temps, reconstituted to some random PH, into "patients" who aren't monitored for response or antibodies.

I'm sure that unlike pharma, UGL can't possibly induce the same loss of effectiveness right?

View attachment 306842

The patients who had the strongest immunogenic responses (The RIA number), 10,11, and 15, completely stopped responding to rHGH. This happened AFTER 10-23 months of daily rHGH injections. All were changed to another brand. 10 and 11 had no improvement and treatment failed entirely. 15 was able to continue with the new brand, immunogenicity was reduced, and growth resumed.

The other patients kept growing, but at a slower rate due to increased inhibition of rHGH.

So either I'm a crackpot, or you're the product of a crackwhore. For the sake of your mother's honor, I'm sure you'll be able to demolish this "theory" with your own evidence.


PS: The same anti-GH Antibody tests are available at walk in testing centers like Quest, for $269, in case anyone feels like GH isn't working like it used to and wants to know if this is the reason.

you are Verrry Thorough, gives me new stuff to "study" on hgh and all that's involved,,,

 

[songsofpyramids]

What the fuck are you talking about retard?

Let me demonstrate what resulted from your mother's poor decision making one night.

I don't like to go into the evidence too deeply because it's TLDR and I'm not here to educate idiots like you.

I'll make an exception for the benefit of others.

Patients on growth hormone are closely monitored for the expected progress and IGF levels while on treatment. If those aren't maintained, they're tested for anti-growth hormone antibodies, which result from an immunogenetic reaction to rHGH.

If high "titers" of anti-growth hormone antibodies are found, the options are:

-Increase the dose to overcome immunogenicity.

-Take a break and try again when the number of antibodies go down.

-Switch brands

-Stop treatment

Here's a chart with the levels of antibodies in patients who's results weren't as expected. and the percentage of rHGH neutralized.

These reactions develop in response to high quality PHARMA formulations, not UGL trash, stored in uncontrolled temps, reconstituted to some random PH, into "patients" who aren't monitored for response or antibodies.

I'm sure that unlike pharma, UGL can't possibly induce the same loss of effectiveness right?

View attachment 306842

The patients who had the strongest immunogenic responses (The RIA number), 10,11, and 15, completely stopped responding to rHGH. This happened AFTER 10-23 months of daily rHGH injections. All were changed to another brand. 10 and 11 had no improvement and treatment failed entirely. 15 was able to continue with the new brand, immunogenicity was reduced, and growth resumed.

The other patients kept growing, but at a slower rate due to increased inhibition of rHGH.

So either I'm a crackpot, or you're the product of a crackwhore. For the sake of your mother's honor, I'm sure you'll be able to demolish this "theory" with your own evidence.


PS: The same anti-GH Antibody tests are available at walk in testing centers like Quest, for $269, in case anyone feels like GH isn't working like it used to and wants to know if this is the reason.

View attachment 306847

Honestly one of the better posts about hgh lately. Very interesting stuff to think about. I’m going to go get an antibody test for shits and giggles now. I’m just flat curious now and that’s not nearly as pricy as I thought the test was.