When do you see legs grow?

[Dunkirk]

We focus too much on the "latest" study. Tomorrow there will be another research that will disprove this research.

What happened to going to the gym, give it your all, eat right, and recover well. No offense to anyone as I see this everywhere... "tHe LatEst stUDY shOws tHis meThod iS SupeRIOr".

Fucking go to the gym, your body dysmorphia will never make you happy. The sooner you accept this, the better off you'll be.

 

[taco33150]

He’s literally just a PT at the gym. He’s helped me with my form on squats, RDL and Deads, but to be completely frank, he’s just there as a training partner to push the fuck out of me.

Good call .. you always will get more if you got someone that can push you .. a second pair of eyes is very important

 

[egruberman]

We focus too much on the "latest" study. Tomorrow there will be another research that will disprove this research.

If by "we" you are referring to me and my mention of the more recent literature then I reject your criticism. Scientific understanding evolves and there is much to be learned by staying abreast of the recent literature. A reasonable person, thinking critically, can leverage that information to improve what is already well understood.

We've all seen what it takes to gain muscle based on real observational evidence. Those that are successful, lift consistently, with intensity, and eat correctly. What we can gain from the research is insight about how to optimise what is already common knowledge.

What happened to going to the gym, give it your all, eat right, and recover well. No offense to anyone as I see this everywhere... "tHe LatEst stUDY shOws tHis meThod iS SupeRIOr".

The latest study is not prescriptive. Anyone that looks to research to develop a program is doing it wrong. A skilled coach will consider the athlete and their individual characteristics to create a program that works for them. Generally speaking, the latest research suggests that "more is better". I wouldn't hesitate to have a noob lifter in his 20s squat 3x a week. I'd hesitate to suggests something similar to a noob lifter in his 40s, nor would I recommend that to anyone of an advanced training age that wasn't a gifted athlete squatting north of 4 plates.

There is no research that tells me that these are good decisions. If they are good decisions, they're only the product of experience and observation.

The research can give us clues, though. For example, time under tension makes no difference. Maybe someone believes that taking a very long time to complete reps will improve gains. Turns out that it doesn't. Getting close to failure does, which may inform my choice of exercise in that I'm going to push a chest press machine closer to failure than I will a barbell bench.

The recent research can help us optimize for particular conditions. If we want to bring up a particular muscle group, we know that up to 30 sets per week or so will increase hypertrophy and we could reduce the sets per week for other muscle groups down to near minimal effective dose and focus all the recovery bandwidth on that particular muscle group.

If we want to maximize growth across all body parts, it helps to understand the diminishing returns that occur from doing more sets in a given workout and more sets in a given week. More is more, but not linearly. In a given workout 3 sets for a particular muscle group yields 1.5x the growth as 1 set and it continues to diminish from there.

 

[Dunkirk]

I literally said it wasn't meant to be directed to one person, but if that's how you took it so be it.

 

[egruberman]

I literally said it wasn't meant to be directed to one person, but if that's how you took it so be it.

Given that I'm the only person in this thread referring to the research, that is how I took it. Regardless, in my wall of text you might notice that generally, I agree with you.

 

[Dunkirk]

Given that I'm the only person in this thread referring to the research, that is how I took it. Regardless, in my wall of text you might notice that generally, I agree with you.

I can understand that, and it really wasn't my intention. Sometimes there's too much emphasis on research and studies, that it becomes the focus rather than working out and having fun. I've fallen into that myself.

 

[Zad]

We focus too much on the "latest" study. Tomorrow there will be another research that will disprove this research.

What happened to going to the gym, give it your all, eat right, and recover well. No offense to anyone as I see this everywhere... "tHe LatEst stUDY shOws tHis meThod iS SupeRIOr".

Fucking go to the gym, your body dysmorphia will never make you happy. The sooner you accept this, the better off you'll be.

Facts. Most swear by volume (including this thread), but in my experience, going heavy with compound lifts produced the best results for me. Then switching to variations (buffalo bar, bands, whatever) to work on weak points. Compared to 5 years of 3 sets of 8 on a bunch of different variations and machines, I had more lean muscle gains in 1 year of powerlifting.

Yet I can't say this is "superior" because most pro bodybuilders have had more success with volume. Many people at gym are bigger than me. But copying the latest trends or mirroring what others told me did not produce results.YMMV

My only golden rules:
1. Lift the weights and give it your all (Leave nothing on the table).
2. Eat big get big.
3. Stay consistent and track your progress.

I'll leave the debate to the pros and scientists about what is the most "productive hypertrophy routine."

 

[egruberman]

Most swear by volume (including this thread), but in my experience, going heavy with compound lifts produced the best results for me.

I'm of the opinion that proximity to max genetic potential and training age determines the value of heavy compounds vs. isolation work. Novices, for example will benefit a great deal from a simple strength program using linear progression and sets of 5 on heavy compounds.

At some point when the athlete becomes sufficiently strong it's hard to sustain the volume without incurring a lot of wear and tear. If one is focused on powerlifting then periodization becomes necessary to reach peak condition for a particular event.

Throughout most of my life, I've always been into strength, sets of 5 or so on squat, bench, and deadlift. Eventually, it became difficult for me to recover or even avoid injury. I started going bodybuilding style isolation work after I injured myself with a deadlift that was well below my max for the lift.

These days, I don't really deadlift. I do squat for general health reasons, but I go reasonably light and it's not my main leg exercise. My body responded really well to isolation work, which causes me to lament not having tried it sooner.

 

[DECLAN]

Walking did more for me than squats. Lifetime bicycle rider too and lots of skateboarding.

Did you find a different muscle development in your calves because of skateboarding?

I think my muscle separation is kind of different than my gym buddies because of how I am always on my toes jumping whenever I do tricks.

 

[Stealth500]

No, I’m just laughing at the fact that Tom Platts claims he only used 200 mg of deca to grow his legs

I didn't know that, But a little bit of gear goes a long way. especially if you train like a psychopath. I've got mates running rediculous amounts of gear that barely train, seems they are just throwing their health down the toilet for nothing. stop taking gear and shrivel up like a raisin.

 

[Demondosage]

As soon as you lose the ego and train lighter weights for higher reps instead of being ocd with squats, when I said fuck barbell squats and focused on leg press my quads took off

 

[egruberman]

a little bit of gear goes a long way.

No, no it doesn't. If your goal is to look like Tom Platz and compete at that level, you'll be taking as much gear as you can tolerate. If the stars align and you're a hyper-responder and you can tolerate a great deal of gear and you train like a psychopath and you're consistent with training and diet and are blessed with good genetics, then maybe, but only just maybe.

 

[Stealth500]

No, no it doesn't.

Ive had amazing results on small amounts of gear.. in hindsight looking at that post there is no way he was taking only 200mg deca.. at a glance i was thinking that amount of deca sure... but among other drugs.

 

[oldgrey]

Partly it depends on what you respond to and your muscle fiber type. When i was natty i had to lift heavy heavy to get my legs to grow - but i did it very well... with gear obviously it changes things but I agree to say you should be hitting them minimum 2 if not 3 times a week - personally i think it still needs to be pretty heavy but the biggest thing is you REALLY gotta push and grind. IMO - If you aren't dying after a set (whether you do heavier or lighter and TUT), you aren't growing them wheels.

 

[egruberman]

amazing results

I'm curious what your definition of "amazing results" are? That's not a jibe either, nor am I requesting proof. Just a brief explanation of dose and gains.

200mg deca

It's hard to really speculate what people were on. Given his many top ten placings in the O, I'd say, "as much as possible", but he's also from a time when guys were way less transparent about what they were on, and many from that era continue to be.

Also, just checking his results I learned that he completed 23 reps at 525 in a squat competition vs. powerlifter Fred Hatfield.

Holy shit.

 

[Stealth500]

Also, just checking his results I learned that he completed 23 reps at 525 in a squat competition vs. powerlifter Fred Hatfield.

Holy shit.

yeah he was different.

im guessing he took orals at that time.. d-dols and primo.. thats speculative although at that time i believe those were very popular.

 

[Stealth500]

I'm curious what your definition of "amazing results" are? That's not a jibe either, nor am I requesting proof. Just a brief explanation of dose and gains.

500mg test, 200mg deca, 200mg primo.. is a small blast in comparison to someone at the top tier.

 

[egruberman]

im guessing he took orals at that time.. d-dols and primo.. thats speculative although at that time i believe those were very popular.

Test, deca, and dbol were the mainstays. I've seen reports that Arnold took 20mg/day dbol and other reports that he ate it by the handful.

500mg test, 200mg deca, 200mg primo.. is a small blast in comparison to someone at the top tier.

Still a reasonable cycle. You wrote, "small amounts" and I was thinking of the guys claiming to be blasting 300mg of test.

 

[Stealth500]

Test, deca, and dbol were the mainstays. I've seen reports that Arnold took 20mg/day dbol and other reports that he ate it by the handful.

i heard arnold also liked to pop primo acetate

 

[Stealth500]

Still a reasonable cycle. You wrote, "small amounts" and I was thinking of the guys claiming to be blasting 300mg of test.

yeah i meant small in comparison to the copious amounts i'm hearing other people blast these days when they disclose their cycles. I've never pushed the limit on drugs, but my situation is different from someone who competes professionally.

test/deca/primo is my go to and i try to avoid orals.