Where start at 52.....

[malfeasance]

What on earth ever possessed you to dump MCT oil into protein shakes as a diet strategy for leaning up???

 

[supremedonkey]

@Solocam your apprehension to TRT is due to what? Needles? The three minutes it takes to prep a weekly injection?

You have low testosterone. Your symptoms relate to secondary hypogonadism. You’re older and haven’t kept up in the best shape so your body is fighting back.

I had levels like yours at 24 after a back injury and could not justify living with those symptoms regardless of the life of weekly injections it is a small price to pay for improvements in quality of life and at the
End of the day reduction in all cause mortality.

Your issues are related to an androgen deficiency and will most likely alleviate most if not all of your stated complaints.

You owe it to yourself to seek out a quality endocrinologist who will prescribe according to the American society of endocrinologists standard practice of TRT which is a starting dose of
100mg Testosterone a week
500iu HCG a week
1mg Arimidex per week depending on bloodwork and E2 levels.

That’s it. That’s your starting point where in three months you get new bloodwork and reevaluate for symptoms improving. If they are only slightly improved over six months increase dose of testosterone to 150mg per week. Most don’t need to get up to 200mg to alleviate their symptoms.

Reference ranges dont mean shit and mean less for older populations since symptom control is the priority vs caring at all what your levels sit at. Shoot for top of reference ranges for a young person not a 52 year old if you are paying attention to your reference ranges but they are second fiddle to how you are feeling.

I wouldn’t doubt this will help clear up your continuing issues with depression and motivation and you probably won’t have issues with random erections or risk turning into a sexual deviant.

You are 52. You have nothing to lose and quality of life to gain.

Get on TRT ASAP

Terrible advice recommending AI for 100mg. Lots of terrible advice in this thread.

 

[WannaBeBIG]

Terrible advice recommending AI for 100mg. Lots of terrible advice in this thread.

1mg per week at 100mg is standard dose for the American society of endocrinologists for trt and what I started out at 11 years ago.

Please go back and read where I stated that 1mg per week should be according to E2 levels and not arbitrary though 1mg is a perfectly fine starting point for clearly the majority of people according to standard practice

But please tell me you know more than a society of endocrinology doctors

 

[Solocam]

Don't bother with peptides. Your test is low, low enough to possibly get a prescription from a doctor. Why are you not up for committing to trt? At your age, I figured you would be pretty open especially considering your low testosterone levels.

Thanks for the response.

Peptides - I've been on the fence for a while. I have thought about BPC157 for my knees and achilles to see if it helps. Honestly, I'm not even sure I believe all the hype though. The GHRP idea is intriqueing though, if it really does work.

TRT - Honestly, probably more of an issue with admitting I'm old. The thought of pinning every week for the next 15-20 years is a little daunting though.

Also, I did check with my insurance. The only TRT they will cover is the pellet. That they will cover 90%, injectables they would only cover 10%. Bloodwork is covered100%.

Every week that goes by, i'm more open to just about anything.

-Solo

 

[Solocam]

You do realize whatever you do will be easily reversible by the lack of test? Just gets worse with age

Trt or bust

This is a good point, didn't really think of it that way. Thanks for the advice.

-Solo

 

[Solocam]

Where to start?

Accept your age and don't think about the past. We all wanna be 21 again but it's not realistically possible.

Focus on your mental health and not what you look like..

Thanks man.

Mentally I'm better than I've been in a long time. Covid shutdown really fucked with me. Lost my job due to the mandates. I was a union hvac tech, but nobody would let outsiders into their buildings any longer. Took 15 months to find a job that paid over $19/hr. (That was the rate i was getting for unemployment).

Accepting my age......that is likely a major part of it.

-Solo

 

[Solocam]

HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO (At your age)

Take exogenous Testosterone ASAP!!!

Prolactin is a bit elevated. This could cause further erectile and sexual dysfunction along with LOW TEST LEVELS.

Take .5mg cabergoline only twice 3.5 days apart then get Prolactin retested in a couple weeks

Also low dose 10mg cialis daily from now
(lowers blood pressure, protects prostate, and easy boners)

TRT is the route I'm going to pursue. Need to figure out what to do with insurance. They cover the pellet, but that's a deal breaker to me. (how the hell is dose released steadily over a month)??

Prolactin - I'll be honest, the idea of pituitary tumor did come to mind, but is it work treating a benign tumor in exchange for heart and lung problems due to the Cabergoline? Not to me right now, definetely something to run by the doc.

With all the 20 year old girls hanging around thanks to my son, Cialis is the last thing I need... LOL. Besides, my wife is in the middle of menopause.....I'd have nowhere to put the sausage.

-Solo

 

[T&H]

Thanks for the response.

Peptides - I've been on the fence for a while. I have thought about BPC157 for my knees and achilles to see if it helps. Honestly, I'm not even sure I believe all the hype though. The GHRP idea is intriqueing though, if it really does work.

TRT - Honestly, probably more of an issue with admitting I'm old. The thought of pinning every week for the next 15-20 years is a little daunting though.

Also, I did check with my insurance. The only TRT they will cover is the pellet. That they will cover 90%, injectables they would only cover 10%. Bloodwork is covered100%.

Every week that goes by, i'm more open to just about anything.

-Solo

I'd definitely research the pellets before going that avenue. I know they don't compare to injections but can't remember if they are even that effective. You'd probably feel a lot better getting your levels back up to normal though, whichever road you take.

 

[Deezznutzz]

It does lower blood pressure slightly and that was proven in medical tests but that's not a good enough reason for a man to use it everyday.
It will cause more harm than good.

At a very high dose. 40mg

 

[Solocam]

This is only advisable for guys in relationships or guys with regular sexual partners. Sexual frustration isn't a good mental state and it's better to have no interest in sex than have a raging boner everyday and nobody to fuck.

Good advice IMO. Wife has been going through menopause for so long I don't even know what sex is anymore.

-Solo

 

[Solocam]

Don’t listen to this fucking chud and his cabergoline recommendation. He doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about let alone be in a position to tell others what to do

Hmm, thanks for the heads up. I will research everything that is recommended. Cabergoline has it's purpose I'm sure, but the trade offs of possible heart or lung issues, would be something I'd talk to my doctor about first.

Side note: Did you used to be on SE years ago?

-Solo

 

[randomdude79]

Thanks for the response.

Peptides - I've been on the fence for a while. I have thought about BPC157 for my knees and achilles to see if it helps. Honestly, I'm not even sure I believe all the hype though. The GHRP idea is intriqueing though, if it really does work.

TRT - Honestly, probably more of an issue with admitting I'm old. The thought of pinning every week for the next 15-20 years is a little daunting though.

Also, I did check with my insurance. The only TRT they will cover is the pellet. That they will cover 90%, injectables they would only cover 10%. Bloodwork is covered100%.

Every week that goes by, i'm more open to just about anything.

-Solo

Dont bother with TRT doctors. It costs a goddamn fortune and they rarely give you what you want. Id say start low and titrate up as you get fitter. Maybe 140mg test/wk and 2iu HGH/day for a couple months while focusing on cardio and body composition. Eat clean and get plenty of rest. Bump up the test or add a little Anavar after your body stops improving. You should feel pretty good rather quickly.

 

[Solocam]

@Solocam your apprehension to TRT is due to what? Needles? The three minutes it takes to prep a weekly injection?

You have low testosterone. Your symptoms relate to secondary hypogonadism. You’re older and haven’t kept up in the best shape so your body is fighting back.

I had levels like yours at 24 after a back injury and could not justify living with those symptoms regardless of the life of weekly injections it is a small price to pay for improvements in quality of life and at the
End of the day reduction in all cause mortality.

Your issues are related to an androgen deficiency and will most likely alleviate most if not all of your stated complaints.

You owe it to yourself to seek out a quality endocrinologist who will prescribe according to the American society of endocrinologists standard practice of TRT which is a starting dose of
100mg Testosterone a week
500iu HCG a week
1mg Arimidex per week depending on bloodwork and E2 levels.

That’s it. That’s your starting point where in three months you get new bloodwork and reevaluate for symptoms improving. If they are only slightly improved over six months increase dose of testosterone to 150mg per week. Most don’t need to get up to 200mg to alleviate their symptoms.

Reference ranges dont mean shit and mean less for older populations since symptom control is the priority vs caring at all what your levels sit at. Shoot for top of reference ranges for a young person not a 52 year old if you are paying attention to your reference ranges but they are second fiddle to how you are feeling.

I wouldn’t doubt this will help clear up your continuing issues with depression and motivation and you probably won’t have issues with random erections or risk turning into a sexual deviant.

You are 52. You have nothing to lose and quality of life to gain.

Get on TRT ASAP

Needles don't bother me. As mentioned previously, probably just having an issue with admitting my age. Insurance coverage is an issue to some extent (only covers pellets).

I appreciate the advice. I will look into an endocrinologist this week and find one that works with my insurance. Thanks.

"You are 52. You have nothing to lose and quality of life to gain"

This really hit me, thanks.

-Solo

 

[Solocam]

You have a lot of weight to lose, but you haven't lost anything since September. Indeed, you added a pound. Hormones are not your only issue. But you know that, right?



So what are you doing for cardio?

What is your heart rate during that cardio? Get it up over 140 beats per minute for at least 20 of those minutes.

So you are doing three days of cardio at half an hour and four days at one hour. Right?

I don't know what "3 day splits" are, but if you are lifting only 3 days a week, then work your whole body 3 times a week. You mentioned home gym. Are you doing the basic compound movements, like barbell squats, barbell rows, etc? Splits are for when you have more days per week than three to devote to resistance training.




Ok, move protein up to 250 (this is going to require more than 3 meals a day, add protein shakes if you want, but 250 should be from food, not shakes). That is an extra four hundred calories. Push fats down as low as possible, never over 50, but shoot for more like 20, which is difficult but doable. Keep these two relatively constant.

Carbs are the only thing you will manipulate. For now, raise them up some (like to 200). You can lower them or cycle them as you need to in a few weeks in order to get the scale moving in the right direction.

Now this is not If It Fits Your Macros. Eat cleanly. Focus on your tracking so you know what you are putting in your body. No vegetable oils or other chemistry experiments. Protein from meat and eggs. Carbs from oats (no, not that instant flavored packet of shit, Quaker Old Fashioned Oats, not the one minute version, either), rice, potato, sweet potato. Add some greens to one or more meals a day, like spinach, asparagus, broccoli (if you can tolerate broccoli), green beans, and so on.




No good reason not to go on TRT (assuming that "home test" is worth anything), as your testosterone level is very low. It certainly can't hurt. Contrary to what you seem to think however, it won't help that much. It will help, but you are 220 pounds not because of low testosterone. My wife has much lower testosterone than you, but is in much better shape, and I bet her legs are stronger, too.

You must put in the work.

So, do the TRT. I would not hesitate at that testosterone level, but do not expect the testosterone to do the work for you. Gyms are full of fat guys on steroids.


Peptides, bleh. TRT is not going to make you a sliced and diced grandpa. Hard work and diet, discipline consistently day in and day out is what will do that.

Motivation? Fuck. That is internal. TRT won't give you that, either. Figure out what you want and then do it. That is what a man does. Waiting on external motivation? No, no, no.

I am older than you, for whatever that is worth. You just need to get up and do these things. Do the TRT, but get to work, Solocam. Don't wait for TRT to get your diet sorted and start intensely training,.

I have a shit ton of weight to lose.... Nutrition is not my strong suit. My thinking was drastic calore deficit and lower carb. I increased fat to offset the carbs for energy, and to keep calories up. Fucked up thinking????

Cardio - I have pretty shitty knees. I do treadmill on an incline. I do interval training I guess. warm up, balls the walls for 3-4 minutes, then 1.5 minutes at walking pace, back up to speed for another 3-4 minutes....repeat. Back in the 90's I was told not to go over 135 bpm, or the body will go catabolic.

Protein shake I just used as a bridge between my morning meal and lunch.

3 Days on 1 Day off. On my off days I was doing 45 minutes. So, 6 days of lifting 1 day midweek of 45 minutes. (On lifting days, I started with 20mins of treadmill at a light jog).

Home gym, I have a squat rack, calf raise, dip station, dumbbells, various benches, and a universal machine. Bench Press, Preacher Curls, Lat pulls, squats, t-bar rows, deadlifts...

Diet - I likely eat too much red meat. Beef in some form at least twice a week. Eggs, Chicken breasts, and fish. I eat a big salad nearly every day. Olive oil for dressing or fat free Italian. I have brown rice pretty regularly with dinner.

In fairness, breakfast I don't do. I would eat my last meal around 8pm and "breakfast" at 9am at my desk. I kinda treated that as a fast....

I fully understand that my diet has been shit for a long time, and that along with not enough activity is what got me here. Low T, sedentary job, and past depression all played a part in this.

So, I hear ya. I will get off my ass and get moving. My kid just came home from college for the summer. He works out religiously, so maybe some bonding time is in the cards. Working out together should help motivate too.

Apprciate the not bullshit approach. Thanks.

-Solo

 

[malfeasance]

Back in the 90's I was told not to go over 135 bpm, or the body will go catabolic.

I am older than you. I regularly go over 150 during cardio. I spend a majority of the time over 140. I won heavyweight and overall in 2020. I'll just throw that out there for what it is worth. I think the catabolic fear is irrational, and it does not stand up to my actual experience. Plus, it is holding you back from your goals.

Getting the heart rate up burns more calories.

Knee issue here, too. I have found that an elliptical works well without hurting my knees. Riding a bicycle outside does, too. Want to find out your level of cardiovascular fitness? That first hill you encounter on a bike will tell you with no BS in the answer, like a punch right in the mouth.

Just find something that works with your knee and do it.



Diet - focus on this area is the most important thing. Making up calories from carbs with fat does not make sense - fat is 9 calories per gram. Carbs and protein are only 4 calories per gram. This is probably why you have not lost any weight in the last eight months. I cannot keep fats high and prep for a bodybuilding contest. It just does not work for me. Even good fats. Off season I love nuts and olive oil and so on, but those have to be restricted to gone to get in stage shape.

In our 50s, we do not have the metabolism that we had at 19-20. You have to adapt to where you are now.

Protein really does not even count as 4 calories per gram due to the energy the body uses simply to convert protein into a form of energy that it can store. Overeating protein that does not get used by the body and stored as fat takes 25% to 30% of the calories just for your body to do the chemistry involved. That means 100 extra calories in protein stores only 70 to 75 calories. Your body burns the rest trying to store it.

And protein is filling. 50 grams of protein from skinless, boneless chicken breast is quite a serving of meat (about 6 ounces). That does not leave a whole lot of room for bad food in addition.

So you are much better off eating lots of protein, and studies show that the higher the protein consumption, the better the body composition after a cut, and there is no upper limit that has yet been found (there is an entire thread on that here in the diet section with the studies).


Conclusion - if your scale is not moving down 1.5 - 2 pounds a week, then it is time to take a look at what you are doing and make a change. When I cut, I make changes to my diet/cardio weekly based on what the scale and tape measure around the waist say. My wife competes, and she has me do the same for her. Basically, 2 weeks is too long to go without seeing progress, much less 8 months. Reassess what you are doing and make some changes. That is not a one time reassessment, either. You will stall again and need to make changes several times.

 

[malfeasance]

Needles don't bother me. As mentioned previously, probably just having an issue with admitting my age.

Memento mori, Solocam.

Doesn't mean you need to spend middle age and older in bad shape or bad health. Take charge, and do what needs to be done.

 

[malfeasance]

History of Memento Mori

The one perennial truth – rich or not, successful or not, religious, philosophical, it doesn’t matter – you will die. From the beginning of time to the end, death is the one universal inescapable commonality. Kings or peasants, brilliant or stupid, everyone dies or is dead. Some try not to think...

dailystoic.com

After a major military victory, the triumphant military generals were paraded through the streets to the roars of the masses. The ceremonial procession could span the course of a day with the military leader riding in a chariot drawn by four horses. There was not a more coveted honor. The general was idolized, viewed as divine by his troops and the public alike. But riding in the same chariot, standing just behind the worshipped general, was a slave. The slave’s sole responsibility for the entirety of the procession was to whisper in the general’s ear continuously, “Respice post te. Hominem te esse memento. Memento mori!”

“Look behind. Remember thou art mortal. Remember you must die!”

 

[Monkipalo]

What's up with that prolactin? Have you been playing with your wee wee too much?
High prolactin might be the cause of you feeling lethargic, a little bit of test would probably help but might no make the difference you are expecting.

 

[Solocam]

I am older than you. I regularly go over 150 during cardio. I spend a majority of the time over 140. I won heavyweight and overall in 2020. I'll just throw that out there for what it is worth. I think the catabolic fear is irrational, and it does not stand up to my actual experience. Plus, it is holding you back from your goals.

Getting the heart rate up burns more calories.

Knee issue here, too. I have found that an elliptical works well without hurting my knees. Riding a bicycle outside does, too. Want to find out your level of cardiovascular fitness? That first hill you encounter on a bike will tell you with no BS in the answer, like a punch right in the mouth.

Just find something that works with your knee and do it.



Diet - focus on this area is the most important thing. Making up calories from carbs with fat does not make sense - fat is 9 calories per gram. Carbs and protein are only 4 calories per gram. This is probably why you have not lost any weight in the last eight months. I cannot keep fats high and prep for a bodybuilding contest. It just does not work for me. Even good fats. Off season I love nuts and olive oil and so on, but those have to be restricted to gone to get in stage shape.

In our 50s, we do not have the metabolism that we had at 19-20. You have to adapt to where you are now.

Protein really does not even count as 4 calories per gram due to the energy the body uses simply to convert protein into a form of energy that it can store. Overeating protein that does not get used by the body and stored as fat takes 25% to 30% of the calories just for your body to do the chemistry involved. That means 100 extra calories in protein stores only 70 to 75 calories. Your body burns the rest trying to store it.

And protein is filling. 50 grams of protein from skinless, boneless chicken breast is quite a serving of meat (about 6 ounces). That does not leave a whole lot of room for bad food in addition.

So you are much better off eating lots of protein, and studies show that the higher the protein consumption, the better the body composition after a cut, and there is no upper limit that has yet been found (there is an entire thread on that here in the diet section with the studies).


Conclusion - if your scale is not moving down 1.5 - 2 pounds a week, then it is time to take a look at what you are doing and make a change. When I cut, I make changes to my diet/cardio weekly based on what the scale and tape measure around the waist say. My wife competes, and she has me do the same for her. Basically, 2 weeks is too long to go without seeing progress, much less 8 months. Reassess what you are doing and make some changes. That is not a one time reassessment, either. You will stall again and need to make changes several times.

Thanks forthe info.

I am older than you. I regularly go over 150 during cardio. I spend a majority of the time over 140. I won heavyweight and overall in 2020. I'll just throw that out there for what it is worth. I think the catabolic fear is irrational, and it does not stand up to my actual experience. Plus, it is holding you back from your goals.

Getting the heart rate up burns more calories.

Knee issue here, too. I have found that an elliptical works well without hurting my knees. Riding a bicycle outside does, too. Want to find out your level of cardiovascular fitness? That first hill you encounter on a bike will tell you with no BS in the answer, like a punch right in the mouth.

Just find something that works with your knee and do it.



Diet - focus on this area is the most important thing. Making up calories from carbs with fat does not make sense - fat is 9 calories per gram. Carbs and protein are only 4 calories per gram. This is probably why you have not lost any weight in the last eight months. I cannot keep fats high and prep for a bodybuilding contest. It just does not work for me. Even good fats. Off season I love nuts and olive oil and so on, but those have to be restricted to gone to get in stage shape.

In our 50s, we do not have the metabolism that we had at 19-20. You have to adapt to where you are now.

Protein really does not even count as 4 calories per gram due to the energy the body uses simply to convert protein into a form of energy that it can store. Overeating protein that does not get used by the body and stored as fat takes 25% to 30% of the calories just for your body to do the chemistry involved. That means 100 extra calories in protein stores only 70 to 75 calories. Your body burns the rest trying to store it.

And protein is filling. 50 grams of protein from skinless, boneless chicken breast is quite a serving of meat (about 6 ounces). That does not leave a whole lot of room for bad food in addition.

So you are much better off eating lots of protein, and studies show that the higher the protein consumption, the better the body composition after a cut, and there is no upper limit that has yet been found (there is an entire thread on that here in the diet section with the studies).


Conclusion - if your scale is not moving down 1.5 - 2 pounds a week, then it is time to take a look at what you are doing and make a change. When I cut, I make changes to my diet/cardio weekly based on what the scale and tape measure around the waist say. My wife competes, and she has me do the same for her. Basically, 2 weeks is too long to go without seeing progress, much less 8 months. Reassess what you are doing and make some changes. That is not a one time reassessment, either. You will stall again and need to make changes several times.

So, obviously I need to make some majordietary changes. I'm good with that.

Based on 2000 calories to start (500 calorie reduction per day from maintenance) How's the below look? 40% still looks high for fats.

Protein ~ 250g (1000 calories)
Carbs ~ 50g ( 200 calories)
Fat ~ 89g (800 calories)

5 meals per day

I'm assuming fat loss should be the main focus for now, so should I NOT worry about carb timing before and after workouts?

You mention tweeking diet every week if needed. Do you reduce calories in specific increments, (say 500 per week) until you see the 1.5-2lb loss?

- Solo

 

[Solocam]

What's up with that prolactin? Have you been playing with your wee wee too much?
High prolactin might be the cause of you feeling lethargic, a little bit of test would probably help but might no make the difference you are expecting.

Wait, it's NOT a pull toy?? LOL

When i had that blood test done, I had refrained from any sexual activity for 10 days.

-Solo