Which Lab Test Should I Use?

[Turkish Pharmacy]

Your best bet at inquiring, understandable for any analytical chemist, would be:

"I want to determine concentration of testosterone enanthate in oil matrix. Expected range of concentration is between 10 and 500 mg/ml. If no target compound is found in the matrix, I'd like to get ID of major components of the sample."

If they can't understand that inquiry, then you are just wasting time, in my opinion.

Hope I helped.

Thanks for all the info, if I can just get this sh*t done I will be more than happy.

I will lab test pump stack from genericspharma, I think if they got this product well dosed, all other products should also be good to go. :

http://www.genericspharma.com/product_range.php

I will write that paragraph according to content of product in my language of course:

"I want to determine concentration of testosterone enanthate in oil matrix. Expected range of concentration is between 10 and 500 mg/ml. If no target compound is found in the matrix, I'd like to get ID of major components of the sample."


And which method should I request them to use? And is there a specific database they need to use to determine the content in them?Like should I say : "you need to use t523-x database should be applied" ?

They can use any method below:

Qualitative GC-MS Analysis
Quantitative GC-MS Analysis
Sample Preparation
Qualitative GC-MS Head Space
Quantitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Thermal Desorber
-----
HPLCs:

Analysis will be conducted by DAD detector

Analysis will be conducted with a
fluorescence detector

Fluorescence detector + Derivatization

You have been the most helpful so far and I promise to tell all clients to get my products lab tested from you when they have any doubt or question in mind sir, thank you

 

[janoshik]

Thanks for all the info, if I can just get this sh*t done I will be more than happy.

I will lab test pump stack from genericspharma, I think if they got this product well dosed, all other products should also be good to go. :

http://www.genericspharma.com/product_range.php

I will write that paragraph according to content of product in my language of course:

"I want to determine concentration of testosterone enanthate in oil matrix. Expected range of concentration is between 10 and 500 mg/ml. If no target compound is found in the matrix, I'd like to get ID of major components of the sample."


And which method should I request them to use? And is there a specific database they need to use to determine the content in them?Like should I say : "you need to use t523-x database should be applied" ?

They can use any method below:

Qualitative GC-MS Analysis
Quantitative GC-MS Analysis
Sample Preparation
Qualitative GC-MS Head Space
Quantitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Thermal Desorber
-----
HPLCs:

Analysis will be conducted by DAD detector

Analysis will be conducted with a
fluorescence detector

Fluorescence detector + Derivatization

You have been the most helpful so far and I promise to tell all clients to get my products lab tested from you when they have any doubt or question in mind sir, thank you

Thank you, kind words are very appreciated Sir.

I think you best bet for the first analysis would be testing something that is not a blend, but rather a simple one component oil.

For analysis of testosterone enanthate (I will use it as an example) you can use either Quantitative GC-MS Analysis or HPLC with DAD detector (240 nanometer wavelength works great for detecting testosterone enanthate). Both can be used.

When quantitative (or qualitative) GC/MS is used, you don't actually need them to have the database, if they will provide the raw data to you. You actually can find the necessary spectra online ( http://www.swgdrug.org/Monographs/TESTOSTERONE_AND_ESTERS.pdf )

The data above you can use for identification. If you will need some guidance, let me know.



Now, for quantitative (concentration) analysis, the procedure of sample preparation is very simple - you just dilute the oil with suitable solvent - most probably chloroform.

Then you dissolve the purchased standard at a known concentration (so you have for example 100 mg/ml standard) and dilute it.

Then you just test both samples with either GC/MS or HPLC/DAD and you calculate the content (if we assume linearity) by:

(area of the testosterone signal of the unknown divided by area of the testosterone signal of the standard) times concentration of the standard = concentration of the unknown

Now, that is the simplest possible procedure (dilution ratios have to be taken into account in the above formula if they are not the same), however I think that for a rough idea it's enough.



If you don't want to rely on the laboratory getting a testosterone enanthate standard or having to provide them too much information, then you can do comparison analysis - test the two samples of oils, when you know concentration of one of the oils, with GC/MS and then just compare the signal of the testosterone between the two oil samples.

However, obvious issues arise from that.

 

[janoshik]

To be more specific - if you see spectrum like this in your GC/MS raw data:



Then you can be sure that your sample contains testosterone enanthate.


EDIT: Also, if you want to determine if the blend really contains the claimed components, without needing concentration, qualitative GC/MS would be great for that.

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

To be more specific - if you see spectrum like this in your GC/MS raw data:

View attachment 92162

Then you can be sure that your sample contains testosterone enanthate.


EDIT: Also, if you want to determine if the blend really contains the claimed components, without needing concentration, qualitative GC/MS would be great for that.

Janoshik your help is really very precious thank you. I dont like being sponfed -actually everyone likes it a little bit - but I cant seem to find other steroids' monographs online. Maybe I dont know how to search for them. If I could get some kind of lab test, I try to analyze oxandronole, trenbolone or a mix.

My another reseller friend had one Opiox pharma tren acetate lab tested by a client ( product turned out as labeled) thinking, if an UGL puts really tren or oxandrolone inside a product, all other contents should be also good to go. So if there is somewhere I can get also other anabolics' monographs I would really be more than happy.

I wouldnt prefer testing enanthate because its raw material is cheap I havent seen any that doesnt contain some kind of testosterone so far.

I will start by testing the blend to see if it just contains what is written on label, will ask them to apply "qualitative GC/MS" do I need some database or some kind of monograph for this? Mix is test enanthate, boldenone and nandrolone Later on I will hopefully keep on learning and the university lab will learn what to do to move on with normal lab tests with MG and content.

PS: BTW I got some clients asking for lab tests to be done for themselves which is not possible because I am very noob about this issue and cant get tests done whenever I like, as we said to university that my father is getting (biggest lie ever because he probably has more testosterone in his body than me even though he is natural ) androgens from another country which we want to test. For professional lab testing anyone can contact @janoshik

 

[janoshik]

Janoshik your help is really very precious thank you. I dont like being sponfed -actually everyone likes it a little bit - but I cant seem to find other steroids' monographs online. Maybe I dont know how to search for them. If I could get some kind of lab test, I try to analyze oxandronole, trenbolone or a mix.

My another reseller friend had one Opiox pharma tren acetate lab tested by a client ( product turned out as labeled) thinking, if an UGL puts really tren or oxandrolone inside a product, all other contents should be also good to go. So if there is somewhere I can get also other anabolics' monographs I would really be more than happy.

I wouldnt prefer testing enanthate because its raw material is cheap I havent seen any that doesnt contain some kind of testosterone so far.

I will start by testing the blend to see if it just contains what is written on label, will ask them to apply "qualitative GC/MS" do I need some database or some kind of monograph for this? Mix is test enanthate, boldenone and nandrolone Later on I will hopefully keep on learning and the university lab will learn what to do to move on with normal lab tests with MG and content.

PS: BTW I got some clients asking for lab tests to be done for themselves which is not possible because I am very noob about this issue and cant get tests done whenever I like, as we said to university that my father is getting (biggest lie ever because he probably has more testosterone in his body than me even though he is natural ) androgens from another country which we want to test. For professional lab testing anyone can contact @janoshik

Honestly, I don't work with GC/MS, so I don't have the spectra saved, so I just google it.

Oxandrolone - Predicted GC-MS Spectrum - GC-MS (DB00621) - DrugBank
Trenbolone acetate - http://www.restek.com/compound/view/10161-34-9/Trenbolone

You may want to google a bit more to compare it with other GC/MS spectrums that you will find.

However, especially with trenbolone I'd pay close attention to adulteration with testosterone propionate. In my experience it's common that a product with claimed 100 mg/ml tren acetate content contains 20mg/ml tren acetate and 100mg/ml test prop.

If you will ask them to test the blend with qualitative GC/MS, just ask for generic testing program and ask to receive the raw data.

Raw data should consist of at least Total Ion Count chromatogram and spectra of all the major peaks in TIC chromatogram.

Then you can simply paste the raw data here and honestly, it's easier helping to interpret the data that already are available

Thank you for the kind words again.

cheers

 

[master.on]

GC-MS only tells what substances are there
and they'd need a complete library to spot steroids.

HPLC machines are much more affordable than GC-MS
you need to contact a lab that does pharma quality control, order steroids reference standards, and that's pretty much it
the lab can do the rest for you.
Just ask if they have HPLC or UPLC equipment and go from there.

 

[Logan44551]

To be more specific - if you see spectrum like this in your GC/MS raw data:

View attachment 92162

Then you can be sure that your sample contains testosterone enanthate.


EDIT: Also, if you want to determine if the blend really contains the claimed components, without needing concentration, qualitative GC/MS would be great for that.

Can you explain what NMR method is for concentration of compound?

 

[mercury]

GC-MS only tells what substances are there
and they'd need a complete library to spot steroids.

HPLC machines are much more affordable than GC-MS
you need to contact a lab that does pharma quality control, order steroids reference standards, and that's pretty much it
the lab can do the rest for you.
Just ask if they have HPLC or UPLC equipment and go from there.

you are misinforming. the design of GC/MS comes from late 60s and was funded by US government. There was a need to identify biological / chemical weapons.

any GC/MS software contains library of 200 000+ components including steroids. So in most cases you do not need any new library. unless there is a new design drug then you need to update it. this is why it is wonderful tool to get unknown sample and find what you have inside. but like with all type of equipment there is limitation too what GC/MS can do

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

you are misinforming. the design of GC/MS comes from late 60s and was funded by US government. There was a need to identify biological / chemical weapons.

any GC/MS software contains library of 200 000+ components including steroids. So in most cases you do not need any new library. unless there is a new design drug then you need to update it. this is why it is wonderful tool to get unknown sample and find what you have inside. but like with all type of equipment there is limitation too what GC/MS can do

I was losing hope, as I am sure they(the university I have found) have no idea about what androgens are and would have no specific library about it too.

Now I will give it a go even if they cant specify the mgs of products to start with.

 

[mercury]

I was losing hope, as I am sure they(the university I have found) have no idea about what androgens are and would have no specific library about it too.

Now I will give it a go even if they cant specify the mgs of products to start with.

with GC/MS they can identify steroids but without standards they cannot tell you mg/ml.

post the manufacturer of the GC/MS and I will tell you how to run it and get the data. I cannot imagine that there is some clueless guy who does not know how to run the GC/MS

it might not be worth the hassle unless you have tons to test.

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

with GC/MS they can identify steroids but without standards they cannot tell you mg/ml.

post the manufacturer of the GC/MS and I will tell you how to run it and get the data. I cannot imagine that there is some clueless guy who does not know how to run the GC/MS

it might not be worth the hassle unless you have tons to test.

I have a lot to test. People think sellers know content of every product they have, but as I am not producing, I can never be %100 sure about what UGL producers put inside. Also some pharma grade products come from other countries, some of them need to be tested too. I want to start with mixes, like pump stack a combo of deca bolde and test e.

Here is the machine:

 

[mercury]

this is classic Thermo GCMS, it comes with software and there is an extra package where you run the raw data and it will identify everything from its included huge library. I see also that it comes with autosampler.

if you can arrange with them then go for it but you still need standards to calibrate it for quantitative testing, it some countries you can buy them with no hassle.

then you need right column for it, there are also mater of proper detectors, it usually comes with most popular called FID. you need to talk directly to somebody there.

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

Here are the analyzes they can do with it, dont know if it helps or makes it easier:


GC-MS ANALİZLERİ GC-MS ANALYSIS
GC-MS Kalitatif Analizi Qualitative GC-MS Analysis
*GC-MS Kantitatif Analizi Quantitative GC-MS Analysis
Numune Hazırlama Sample Preparation
**Metot Geliştirme **Method Development **
GC-MS Head-Space Kalitatif Qualitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Head-Space Kantitatif Quantitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Termal Desorber GC-MS Thermal Desorber
Kütüphane Tarama Library Screening

 

[master.on]

Can you explain what NMR method is for concentration of compound?

Can modern NMR even quantify?
I was taught at college that it doesn't, but tech moves fast.

I have a lot to test. People think sellers know content of every product they have, but as I am not producing, I can never be %100 sure about what UGL producers put inside. Also some pharma grade products come from other countries, some of them need to be tested too. I want to start with mixes, like pump stack a combo of deca bolde and test e.

Here is the machine:

View attachment 93272

this is classic Thermo GCMS, it comes with software and there is an extra package where you run the raw data and it will identify everything from its included huge library. I see also that it comes with autosampler.

if you can arrange with them then go for it but you still need standards to calibrate it for quantitative testing, it some countries you can buy them with no hassle.

then you need right column for it, there are also mater of proper detectors, it usually comes with most popular called FID. you need to talk directly to somebody there.

How accurate is GC-MS for quantifying?

I remember you had to repeat HPLC tests 5+ times and get less than 0.25% variation in all tests.
But that was because the FDA sets +-15% average, and no unit beyond +-25% for pharma meds.

+-5% or even +-10% will be acceptable for UG gear testing.

@Turkish Pharmacy ask for quality control labs that have HPLC
Buy some legal veterinary gear there, and tell the labs that you're doing quality control for them.

 

[mercury]

How accurate is GC-MS for quantifying?

it is very accurate this is what you would expect from equipment which usually cost over $100 000 But all depends what you test.

For example if you calibrate for steroids, you calibrate in specific range to get accurate results for example 150 mg/-300 mg/ml.

and your sample has 50 mg/ml this is when you can unpredictable results. HPLC is better suited for steroid testing.

 

[mercury]

Here are the analyzes they can do with it, dont know if it helps or makes it easier:


GC-MS ANALİZLERİ GC-MS ANALYSIS
GC-MS Kalitatif Analizi Qualitative GC-MS Analysis
*GC-MS Kantitatif Analizi Quantitative GC-MS Analysis
Numune Hazırlama Sample Preparation
**Metot Geliştirme **Method Development **
GC-MS Head-Space Kalitatif Qualitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Head-Space Kantitatif Quantitative GC-MS Head Space
GC-MS Termal Desorber GC-MS Thermal Desorber
Kütüphane Tarama Library Screening

Ok Head-Space or Termal Desorber is not for steroid testing. They have GCMS, who are you talking to ? I do not think that you are talking to chemist. Talk to the chemist there. he can do Quantitative testing on GCMS.

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

Ok I will ask her to do this: Quantitative GC-MS Analysis

Its not a man, its a woman so I cant trust her much you know women lol

 

[master.on]

Ok I will ask her to do this: Quantitative GC-MS Analysis

Its not a man, its a woman so I cant trust her much you know women lol

1 No offense, but why do you middle-easterns often fear women?
WTF?

2 Just tell her something like
'I'm a consultant hired to arrange getting quality control tests done on our customers veterinary products. "
Buy some veterinary gear for the first tests done there. It won't raise any suspicion.
Gear is legal there, so there's no problem.

3 Is she hot?

 

[Turkish Pharmacy]

1 No offense, but why do you middle-easterns often fear women?
WTF?

2 Just tell her something like
'I'm a consultant hired to arrange getting quality control tests done on our customers veterinary products. "
Buy some veterinary gear for the first tests done there. It won't raise any suspicion.
Gear is legal there, so there's no problem.

3 Is she hot?

1. Turkey is not exactly a Middle Eastern country, Turkey is also not exactly an European country, neither exactly an Asian country. Nobody is sure what Turkey really is lol. I personally dont fear woman, I sometimes fear their dumbness (basicly its the same thing haha), you should see them drive on roads where I live and you would think the same way

2. The problem is not about legality, its about the woman in charge has no clue on testing an androgenic compound. Now with all info I gather from here, I will talk to her again once more and get this done hopefully.

3. I just stalked her out of curiosity, she is not hot unfortunately. Maybe better not talk to her anymore

 

[master.on]

1. Turkey is not exactly a Middle Eastern country, Turkey is also not exactly an European country, neither exactly an Asian country. Nobody is sure what Turkey really is lol. I personally dont fear woman, I sometimes fear their dumbness (basicly its the same thing haha), you should see them drive on roads where I live and you would think the same way

2. The problem is not about legality, its about the woman in charge has no clue on testing an androgenic compound. Now with all info I gather from here, I will talk to her again once more and get this done hopefully.

3. I just stalked her out of curiosity, she is not hot unfortunately. Maybe better not talk to her anymore

Do they also have HPLC equipment there?
GC-MS ain't guaranteed for quantification (how much is there), albeit great for identification.

Experience testing androgenic compounds ain't really necessary, as long as she knows how to use the HPLC machine.

You just need:
1 a supplier of steroid reference-standards.

2 look for a suitable 'method' to test steroids.
You can find them online:
i.e.
HPLC Analysis of Testosterone and 1-Testosterone on Ascentis® Express C18
https://www.phenomenex.com/Compound/Testosterone

A method means: choice of solvents, buffers, column type, flow rate in the machine.

3 eventually you may need to purchase a new column and bring it there yourself, just in case they don't have the proper type there.
Although I believe a C18 column will work fine, wouldn't it? @mercury

Then she can take care of the rest.
She dissolves some reference standard in the proper solvents, adds a buffer if needed, feeds or programs the machine to feed itself with samples,
creates a calibration curve, repeat to ensure repeatability, and so on
Then you can bring samples for testing.

I've seen pharma quality control labs get ready to test meds they never tested before in just a couple weeks (after getting the reference standards).