do labs simply assume all their Raws are accurate? I'm sure they know that a lot of labs are selling low dose or bunk gear. Wouldn't that make them test it? If most Raws are comming out bad wouldn't it make sense to test it and if they need to dose it correctly then do so? I'm so tired of ugl s. So much time is wasted with playing with doses and never really knowing what's in it. Yes you can get bloods but what about everything else? Since I been using ugl not one has been good. Maybe one or two items that's it. Frustrating.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Why don't labs test their Raws?
- Thread starter ErikR
- Start date
Never Been Pinned
New Member
Why? because they are cheap and most are just in it for a quick buck. A source put out one good batch and then demand goes up so instead of testing they just keep putting it out because it's lucrative AF
Its a $$$ thing . Private MassSpec testing is anywhere from several hundreds of dollars to a grand or more . Labmax is cheap but highly limited in terms of potency . Bloodwork is effective but only for testosterone , and it takes a month or longer to achieve optimal blood levels . Of all the illegal drugs sold on the black market, AAS are the easiest to pass off as bunk ....
mission2
Subscriber
Large scale UGLs have very good profit margins...they could definitely afford it, but it's not exactly legal or easy to test raws.
Unless they can do it locally it would take way too long and set back production big time.
Unless they can do it locally it would take way too long and set back production big time.
It's crazy. It's like all the general rules of dosing per cycle flys out the window because nobody knows what their taking. It's almost you need to go by feel. And the guys that never cycled before cant go by feel because they don't know. It can get more dangerous than it needs to be.
I doubt many UGLs have any idea where to look for a lab to test their raws. I personally have zero interest in being a source, but I would give a lot to have a reliable testing service. I've looked at and contacted a lot of labs in the US, in Europe and in China. I've paid some of them to do tests, and a couple have accepted samples for free to prove they can get accurate results.
I've sent out the same sample to seven labs in the last six months, and have so far received zero data from anyone. Most kept my money and tossed my samples, I'm sure. One gave me a refund when it was realized standards were not available.
I expect Capt Forest will be the first one to give me results, hopefully in less than six weeks though I'm at the end of week five now. If I can't get results from at least one other lab, I'm going to be forced to brew and pin the gear and use blood work as verification.
I think there are UGLs that would pay for reliable testing if they knew where to have it done. One Pharma, for example, didn't blink at $300 and expressing his sample to the Netherlands, but the test result was unfortunately nonsensical.
I've sent out the same sample to seven labs in the last six months, and have so far received zero data from anyone. Most kept my money and tossed my samples, I'm sure. One gave me a refund when it was realized standards were not available.
I expect Capt Forest will be the first one to give me results, hopefully in less than six weeks though I'm at the end of week five now. If I can't get results from at least one other lab, I'm going to be forced to brew and pin the gear and use blood work as verification.
I think there are UGLs that would pay for reliable testing if they knew where to have it done. One Pharma, for example, didn't blink at $300 and expressing his sample to the Netherlands, but the test result was unfortunately nonsensical.
hotdog23
New Member
Say you have 6 compounds 6 kilos, you get them tested. By the time you get results.. You have 6 new kilos....
hotdog23
New Member
It's just impossible to keep up with. ESPECIALLY for a one stop shop.. Which is what everyone wants
Gramps
New Member
One other MAJOR reason, also, is SHILLS. A lab shows up, a shill makes an account the same time and starts with "This shit is THE shit! I've been on it for 3 days and my dick is driving nails at the same time I'm bench pressing Buicks!" and BINGO, newbies who don't read line up and buy it. Once word gets out it's only olive oil, 4-6 weeks have gone by before the bloodwork settles, the label is changed, new shills come out, and it's a new game. Who needs testing when dumbasses make it THAT easy? Another bad thing is there really may be a couple labs out there who want to do it right but so many suckers are taken away from their potential sales the income doesn't justify the testing.
There are several problems that I've run into in locating a lab.
The first obtaining the standards for AAS testing and deciding what taht particular company will do with the leftovers. Because these are scheduled substances certain documents must be completed whenever the standard is used or "wasted". Truthfully it's a pain in the ASS that most labs just don't want to hassle over. But for instance I searched diligently for months before locating the Standard facility used.
The second most of the money labs make comes from "batch" testing! So the more of a SPECIFIC test they do the more profitable. (So rest assured AAS assays would be a POC IF several companies ALSO needed this lab service, but excluding a few token AAS manufactures there is simply no demand) Oh I know what many SAY they would pay but when push comes to shove MOST just can't afford the cost associated with the testing THEY WANT
The third is the fact the DEA essentially forbids the publication of illicit drug concentrations and that means while one may be able to locate a lab that can do a MS they can't provide quantitative or "purity" information
The fourth issue is the complexity of evaluating ANY mixture of compounds with so many contaminants they make a landfill appear clean
The fifth is locating a lab that has the experience to perform AAS analyses or is even willing to give it a go!
The sixth is finding a lab that charges a reasonable rate for the type of an analyses most AAS users can afford AND that's about $250 buck per sample. Anything much more than that and their testing volume falls precipitously.
The seventh is ensuring a lab provides the turn around time originally promised. Many ask why these delays? Well understand these assays have bc very complicated and the amount of work required on the part of the involved lab is usually grossly underestimated.
The eight factor is delivering samples to a lab willing to do all that which AAS users need (in violation of DEA standards) but ensuring people don't blab like Oprah Winfrey!
Now why do you think myself and Capt have not posted what lab we use, loose lips sinks ships and forums are full of the former, guaranteed!
Trw008
New Member
The UGL i buy from tests his raws. He supplies to himself and friends and a small group with his stuff so always tests it before making a batch. I have made more gains on his stuff than anyones, its amazing how good AAS can be when the ugl does things right.
FuriousWO
New Member
Define "tests" please
I don't think the technology is there. Mass spec testing is a complex procedure that not just any average shmuck is qualified to perform anyways.
We know that scams exist as well. People saying that they mass spec, but in reality do no such thing.
That leaves us with what? Labmax, melt point tests and blood work. None of that tests purity with any pin point accuracy.
We know that scams exist as well. People saying that they mass spec, but in reality do no such thing.
That leaves us with what? Labmax, melt point tests and blood work. None of that tests purity with any pin point accuracy.
I_know_nothing
New Member
jim pretty much sums up why almost no UGL has MS/HPLC testing. there are a lot of hurdles for them to jump through to get actual legit testing done. i believe there are some UGLs out there that would pay good money if they could have an actual lab do their testing to the fullest extent. the problem is, as flenser mentioned, buying from these "labs" is just like buying from UGL. it's the nature of the black market i guess..
Here is more general info and I only post this so you mates know what is involved in AAS testing and perhaps to enable Meso members to better understand why UGLs selling bunk often escape detection by AAS users for prolonged periods.
Oh there is another important factor I overlooked which is, does the facility have ALL the equipment required to perform the tests desired?
No doubt the single most important device is an HPLC with SEVERAL columns (Vitamin D column works great for many yet not all AAS) Excluding the expertise of the chemist, and I do mean a PHD level chemist, and the availability of RESEARCH standards, the next most important factor is the COLUMN itself. These puppies are NOT cheap ($600 - $1500) and most are designed to better evaluate specific compound classes.
For example these classes of AAS are best assayed using DIFFERENT columns
1) 19-Nor Deca, Bolo, Tren
2) Ester = Var, A-drol,
3) Nitrile = Stanozolol
4) Halogenated = Turnbol,
5) Multi Hydroxy groups = Test, Dbol, Master
The lab I use carries four of these five columns at a cost of $3800. Did someone say so what Jim
Well the problem is only 3 of the 4 columns are capable of multi-compound analyses and as such are limited to the evaluation of a few AAS.
Now if your a business and are aware of the limited demand, now understanding the startup cost will approximate 4K, most wise businessmen will say, NOT to the prospect of testing AAS.!
Next is a MS and there are SEVERAL types, each having their specific benefits, areas of expertise, pre-procedural qualifications, means of ionizing the sample compound, MW range limits of the sample compound etc.
Finally the optimal compromise is a LC/MS where the specificity of MS is combined with the sensitivity of HPLC.
But remember for optimal accuracy and reproducibility ALL of these tests require the use of STANDARDS for comparison purposes. So sure you will see labs post a MS of their Test-e BUT what you should also see in the backround is the MS of a RESEARCH grade standard for comparison purposes.
Bc in the absence of that standard the ONLY factor that may be determined with utmost certainty is the sample compounds Molecular Weight!
Thus the take home point in this post is, STANDARDS are the STANDARD which all labs use to confirm or refute any compounds presence or absence and without them the test is INCONCLUSIVE at best.
Regs
jim
Oh there is another important factor I overlooked which is, does the facility have ALL the equipment required to perform the tests desired?
No doubt the single most important device is an HPLC with SEVERAL columns (Vitamin D column works great for many yet not all AAS) Excluding the expertise of the chemist, and I do mean a PHD level chemist, and the availability of RESEARCH standards, the next most important factor is the COLUMN itself. These puppies are NOT cheap ($600 - $1500) and most are designed to better evaluate specific compound classes.
For example these classes of AAS are best assayed using DIFFERENT columns
1) 19-Nor Deca, Bolo, Tren
2) Ester = Var, A-drol,
3) Nitrile = Stanozolol
4) Halogenated = Turnbol,
5) Multi Hydroxy groups = Test, Dbol, Master
The lab I use carries four of these five columns at a cost of $3800. Did someone say so what Jim
Well the problem is only 3 of the 4 columns are capable of multi-compound analyses and as such are limited to the evaluation of a few AAS.Now if your a business and are aware of the limited demand, now understanding the startup cost will approximate 4K, most wise businessmen will say, NOT to the prospect of testing AAS.!
Next is a MS and there are SEVERAL types, each having their specific benefits, areas of expertise, pre-procedural qualifications, means of ionizing the sample compound, MW range limits of the sample compound etc.
Finally the optimal compromise is a LC/MS where the specificity of MS is combined with the sensitivity of HPLC.
But remember for optimal accuracy and reproducibility ALL of these tests require the use of STANDARDS for comparison purposes. So sure you will see labs post a MS of their Test-e BUT what you should also see in the backround is the MS of a RESEARCH grade standard for comparison purposes.
Bc in the absence of that standard the ONLY factor that may be determined with utmost certainty is the sample compounds Molecular Weight!
Thus the take home point in this post is, STANDARDS are the STANDARD which all labs use to confirm or refute any compounds presence or absence and without them the test is INCONCLUSIVE at best.
Regs
jim
I think it's great you have located a source your happy with, but I'd bet Vegas there is no "always test" standard he's willing to prove. Moreover if he does show you some "results", the majority will be narrative summaries with a few scattered MS assays at best.
Regs
jim
MANWHORE
Subscriber
When I buy from a lab, I want results..
The lab can throw all the testing they did
at me all day long but if I am not getting
results from their gear, then those tests mean nothing...
Some guys will buy just because of nice colorful labels..
Give them some nice labels and some MS HPLC bullshit
test sheets, and they feel nice and cozy inside..
Until it's time hit that new 550lb bench record that they
been planning for months, that they fail because the gear sucks..
and all the hot girls in the gym watching as they
drop the weight and 2 of the smallest guys
in the gym have to pick it off their chest..
very embarrassing ...
Continued...
The lab can throw all the testing they did
at me all day long but if I am not getting
results from their gear, then those tests mean nothing...
Some guys will buy just because of nice colorful labels..
Give them some nice labels and some MS HPLC bullshit
test sheets, and they feel nice and cozy inside..
Until it's time hit that new 550lb bench record that they
been planning for months, that they fail because the gear sucks..
and all the hot girls in the gym watching as they
drop the weight and 2 of the smallest guys
in the gym have to pick it off their chest..
very embarrassing ...
Continued...
MANWHORE
Subscriber
Remember this:
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
MANWHORE
Subscriber
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
I rest my case
M
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
I rest my case
M
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