Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)

[Para_33]

Why do you want higher SHBG?

More anabolism through the SHBG-RC (receptor complex) bringing androgens into the cells through the cell membrane instead of the nucleus. It’s an addition anabolic pathway outside the androgen receptor itself.

 

[Twizted]

More anabolism through the SHBG-RC (receptor complex) bringing androgens into the cells through the cell membrane instead of the nucleus. It’s an addition anabolic pathway outside the androgen receptor itself.

Oh. I was under the impression that lower SHBG was better

 

[Type-IIx]

Oh. I was under the impression that lower SHBG was better

It is generally (basically you should not listen to anything Para has to say) but there is still a role for the SHBG promoter gene (megalin) in the development of secondary sex characteristics and some association with megalin genetic polymorphisms and prostate cancer risk (a potential attenuated link to androgenic effects), and megalin receptor has been shown to be present in human skeletal muscle (but with no discernible relevance for anabolism).

SHBG-T complexes have not been shown to be an "additional anabolic pathway," but they are relevant for healthy sexual function, and partially contravene the free T hypothesis. If these play a role in hypertrophy, there's no evidence of it.

Still, free T trumps SHBG-T for net effects on anabolism. You just need enough SHBG bound to T for normal functioning.

 

[Twizted]

It is generally (basically you should not listen to anything Para has to say) but there is still a role for the SHBG promoter gene (megalin) in the development of secondary sex characteristics and some association with megalin genetic polymorphisms and prostate cancer risk (a potential attenuated link to androgenic effects), and megalin receptor has been shown to be present in human skeletal muscle (but with no discernible relevance for anabolism).

SHBG-T complexes have not been shown to be an "additional anabolic pathway," but they are relevant for healthy sexual function, and partially contravene the free T hypothesis. If these play a role in hypertrophy, there's no evidence of it.

Still, free T trumps SHBG-T for net effects on anabolism. You just need enough SHBG bound to T for normal functioning.

Thanks for the information. I thought about tagging you for further clarification but you beat me to it.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

I wrote a post in this a while back if you want to check it out: Soybeans and phytoestrogens? Why does nobody talk about beer? Or Flax?

It isnt nicely formatted like yours but it'll have to do and serves as a good starting point for discussion.

Hops contain an extremely potent phytoestrogen, i believe it is actually still is the most potent phytoestrogen known thus far: 8-prenylnaringenin (8-PN) It is so potent that one study found 2 or 3 light beers enough to treat menopause symptoms in menopausal women! In a nutshell, beer is lowering Testosterone via alcohol and activating estrogen via 8-PN.

Anyway, check it out. Feel free to comment or provide more insight as always.

In the middle ages, doctors prescribed beer for pregnant women to induce lactation. Beer equals estrogen and prolactin. It's best to not drink any alcohol whatsoever, especially beer.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

It is generally (basically you should not listen to anything Para has to say) but there is still a role for the SHBG promoter gene (megalin) in the development of secondary sex characteristics and some association with megalin genetic polymorphisms and prostate cancer risk (a potential attenuated link to androgenic effects), and megalin receptor has been shown to be present in human skeletal muscle (but with no discernible relevance for anabolism).

SHBG-T complexes have not been shown to be an "additional anabolic pathway," but they are relevant for healthy sexual function, and partially contravene the free T hypothesis. If these play a role in hypertrophy, there's no evidence of it.

Still, free T trumps SHBG-T for net effects on anabolism. You just need enough SHBG bound to T for normal functioning.

Thanks Type-IIx.....love reading your posts. You are a wealth of knowledge brotha...

 

[lukiss96]

That's the last thing I would ever consider taking, even if my life was depending on it. Taking female hormones, that's ridiculous, why? I'd rather smash dbols in case I'm so deprived of estrogen that I risk dying or something...

 

[Para_33]

It is generally (basically you should not listen to anything Para has to say) but there is still a role for the SHBG promoter gene (megalin) in the development of secondary sex characteristics and some association with megalin genetic polymorphisms and prostate cancer risk (a potential attenuated link to androgenic effects), and megalin receptor has been shown to be present in human skeletal muscle (but with no discernible relevance for anabolism).

SHBG-T complexes have not been shown to be an "additional anabolic pathway," but they are relevant for healthy sexual function, and partially contravene the free T hypothesis. If these play a role in hypertrophy, there's no evidence of it.

Still, free T trumps SHBG-T for net effects on anabolism. You just need enough SHBG bound to T for normal functioning.

One could easily argue, we said the exact same thing more or less.
- Shbg isn’t useless, it’s still important. -That’s my claim.

Shbg isn’t something that should just be thoughtlessly crashed into the ground as low as possible. You want some of it. How much, nobody knows exactly.


“Basically you shouldn’t listen to anything para has to say” lol.. Not offended, but damn man, you have quite a way with words lol. Are you a Virgo ?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I was prescribed Arimidex to take with my TRT; I was doing 1mg per week. I actually stopped taking it, even when on blasts and I'm fine.

 

[MFAAS]

I was prescribed Arimidex to take with my TRT; I was doing 1mg per week. I actually stopped taking it, even when on blasts and I'm fine.

That is a crazy dose for TRT...I usually take 0.125 mg twice per week. Sometimes I skip it too. That is at 180 mg per week. I usually take that much when blasting, I will take 0.25 mg 3x per week or maybe 0.5 mg twice at 500-600 mg test

 

[Type-IIx]

One could easily argue, we said the exact same thing more or less.
- Shbg isn’t useless, it’s still important. -That’s my claim.

Shbg isn’t something that should just be thoughtlessly crashed into the ground as low as possible. You want some of it. How much, nobody knows exactly.


“Basically you shouldn’t listen to anything para has to say” lol.. Not offended, but damn man, you have quite a way with words lol. Are you a Virgo ?

Heh I respect you brother - and I believe a lot of what you've been reading comes from the anti-aging community so it's reflective of a mess of strange ideas in my view - this has been my observation from statements you've made on this thread. I view your comprehension of androgens and how they work as inaccurate.

We don't agree: you want to increase your SHBG arbitrarily under the rationale that doing so provides "More anabolism through the SHBG-RC (receptor complex) bringing androgens into the cells through the cell membrane instead of the nucleus. It’s an addition anabolic pathway outside the androgen receptor itself."

I pointed out that the matter of T-SHBG complexes, megalin, etc is far more nuanced than "more SHBG is better." It's almost entirely the opposite (that free hormone prevails in activity), but it would seem that a reservoir of SHBG must exist to satisfactorily provide for some role (as yet not fully elucidated) involving AR-SHBG interaction & PKA activity. Basically all that we know is that may be some interaction between these complexes and SHBG receptor that increases PKA activity and this could influence AR-mediated transcription by altering AR phosphorylation and that of its coactivators.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks Type-IIx.....love reading your posts. You are a wealth of knowledge brotha...

You're welcome bro

 

[Deleted member 123722]

That is a crazy dose for TRT...I usually take 0.125 mg twice per week. Sometimes I skip it too. That is at 180 mg per week. I usually take that much when blasting, I will take 0.25 mg 3x per week or maybe 0.5 mg twice at 500-600 mg test

My doctor is a friend of the family, and I basically told him I needed 1mg a week, so he gave it to me. He also initially Rx'd me 200mg of Cyp, but then told me to get down to 100mg after the 200mg shot me to 1500mg/dl.

 

[OldGHGuy]

What's the final verdict on flax - does it increase E2 or not?

 

[Millard]

What's the final verdict on flax - does it increase E2 or not?

It increases phytoestrogens.