TaoPhD
New Member
I would dude but I'm only running Test as this is my first cycle. Or I definitely would
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Anabolic Steroids
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- Thread starter gotPEP
- Start date
I would dude but I'm only running Test as this is my first cycle. Or I definitely would
I have a small knot and some PIP as you guys call it. I am not a veteran though and I may be putting it in to fast or not deep enough or something?
As for PEP that guy is pretty cool in my opinion. I am not as experienced as most here but PEP helped me with all the questions I had. He shipped quickly and the product is all evenly filled and came wrapped really tight.
As for PEP that guy is pretty cool in my opinion. I am not as experienced as most here but PEP helped me with all the questions I had. He shipped quickly and the product is all evenly filled and came wrapped really tight.
TaoPhD
New Member
Did you massage or warm the oil first? How fast are you putting it in? How deep are you going?
calvare2
New Member
I found this online:
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
This may make you laugh but I had my chick put it in her bra for a bit. It was very warm lol!
I am using a 1/2" 1cc insulin with a 27 gauge. I would say the whole syringe took maybe 30-45 seconds?
TaoPhD
New Member
1/2" length may be too short. What site did you inject in?
Glute so i wouldn't have pip. I had my chick inject me. I am not blaming PEP here at all. He seems legit and I think he is honestly trying to do right by people and that is all you can ask of a guy.
calvare2
New Member
I would say having a 300mgs/mL concentration for his Test E instead of the usual 250mgs/mL might be the cause.
I use 1 inch minimum for glute injections.
TaoPhD
New Member
Maybe try a 1" needle. I use 1.5" needles. I don't go down to the bevel but I get at least an inch deep every time. The length of time for injection seems long enough.
As far as PEP's stuff, I've had PIP from both his Test Prop and his Test E.
Of course, when you look at what Calvare posted a few posts ago, it could be a myriad of things that cause it. I say try the 1' needle or 1.5". If you need a source for that, PM me and I'll give you a reliable one. It's the same one all the people on this site talk about
johnnyBALLZ
Well-known Member
Yes, I use slins but can't imagine not using 25g 1" pin for glutes..
yeeyee
New Member
@Beergut
Bro you REALLY need to get longer pins for glutes. I use 1.5" and yeah, i know they look huge but its a helluva lot better than worrying about getting a abcess/ not getting deep enough into the muscle.
Bro you REALLY need to get longer pins for glutes. I use 1.5" and yeah, i know they look huge but its a helluva lot better than worrying about getting a abcess/ not getting deep enough into the muscle.
1forthegeeks
New Member
If you guys are pinning his test e, you should cut it or go with your most seasoned muscles. I shoot my quads with a 50/50 test tren mix and it had no PIP.
If your avoiding throwing in any extra compounds, maybe someone can throw out a source for sterile oil? I am sure the homebrew guys can walk us through making it as well.
If your avoiding throwing in any extra compounds, maybe someone can throw out a source for sterile oil? I am sure the homebrew guys can walk us through making it as well.
calvare2
New Member
I get pip from Astro's Test E, but last time I mixed it with deca I noticed less pip.
searay
New Member
Best place for accessories is right here from meso!
searay
New Member
Cem-meso.com
radcon
New Member
I used 27g 1/2" slin in my glute last week and didn't seem to have any problems. I'm going to do it again today. My bodyfat % is probably around 10%.
yeeyee
New Member
@Radcon
Damn bro, I don't even own pins under 1" lol. That's scary
Damn bro, I don't even own pins under 1" lol. That's scary
Do you push it in super hard to reach the muscle? I only use slins in quad and delts.
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