Ass to grass vs. Parallel squats

[ShredMN]

People are ridiculous when it comes to legs. Either they won't EVER do legs or if they do leg presses only! Oh I have bad knees. The excuses come pouring out. At my gym or any gym I've ever been a member of its quite rare to see any body do a real squat routine

That's pretty narrow minded, dude. I don't squat anymore for two reasons...

1) I fractured several vertebral discs about 5 years ago snowboarding, so throwing 300+ lbs on a barbell and placing on my back isn't wise for my long term spinal health.

2) Everytime I do squat I get a stupid pump in my left oblique only, not the right... And that doesn't sit well with me either. I'm not looking to increase my waist circumference, especially with much greater hypertrophy on one side of my waist than the other.

A lot of high level trainers who train physique competitors who use AAS tell their clients to not squat so they don't increase their waist circumference too much. That's obviously not going to be a big issue for the natural competitor, but for those of us who use AAS...

 

[romaleos]

I'm surprised I missed this thread for so long.

I love squats! One of my favorite exercises. IME as to ground is only beneficial at certain weights specifically for reasons that Dr.Jim described above. Everyone has different weights that they can move comfortably without jerking their body or using "english" as I like to call it. When preforming deep squats control & form are of the upmost importance. You need to keep your head looking up, chest out and you should be pinching those shoulder blades back. You can then allow yourself to go down and go as low as possible (with proper weight).

Now when I start using heavy weights the as to ground goes out the window. I only focus on breaking parallel and keeping good form. Box squats is good for this because you can set a box that is just below parallel (for you) and then do touch and goes off the box (you don't want to sit & stand!). But when using heavy weight on squats it is easy to get down in the hole on your 4th or 5th rep and realize that you don't have the energy or strength to fire out of the hole. That's when shit can go bad, I've seen guys rock to one side (unintentionally) and end up pulling a muscle. I know a few big powerlifters that always drop into the hole and if they can't fire out of it they just throw the weight back off of their shoulders (really dangerous).

Shoes are actually really important with the squat and IME basketball shoes work the best. They give decent ankle support while providing just enough of a heel to allow you to really push. I've tried squatting with my wrestling shoes (I use them for DL) and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, learning how to eject from a failed lift is very important. It should actually be practiced from time to time. Also know that when I am giving training advice it is under the assumption that the lifter has access to proper equipment, ie power racks, bumper plates, olympic platform, etc. These are normally not found in a globo gym like 24hr or planet fitness.

Lifting partners are best. But lack of training partners shouldn't hinder training under maximal loads. Yes a little more dangerous to set PRs alone. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[Kinikuman]

That's pretty narrow minded, dude. I don't squat anymore for two reasons...

1) I fractured several vertebral discs about 5 years ago snowboarding, so throwing 300+ lbs on a barbell and placing on my back isn't wise for my long term spinal health.

2) Everytime I do squat I get a stupid pump in my left oblique only, not the right... And that doesn't sit well with me either. I'm not looking to increase my waist circumference, especially with much greater hypertrophy on one side of my waist than the other.

A lot of high level trainers who train physique competitors who use AAS tell their clients to not squat so they don't increase their waist circumference too much. That's obviously not going to be a big issue for the natural competitor, but for those of us who use AAS...

I've had fractures of both thoracic and lumbar vertebrae, I'm old, I have osteoathritis and sqautting has done nothing but help those challenges.

I would suggest that your unusual muscle pump is due to a technique flaw. Fix your form and you may be surprised at the results.

 

[A-a-Ron]

If you can go all the way down and back up with no pain, then do it that way and only that way. Slow progression with the load, strength comes over a lifetime. It's not a sprint, strength is a marathon. Find a good program and stick to it. When you plateau, change it up. The human body is an amazing thing, you will adapt and progress. But you will also have times when you are stuck, how you deal with those times is what determines the type of person you are. A man or a pussy. Don't be a pussy!

All the stuff about below parallel being bad for you only applies to pre-existing injury and limitations and pussies who are scared to squat.

I'm comfortable going down pretty far. The only body issue I have is in my left arm, which obviously doesn't come into play. My knees, hips, ankles and back are all fine. I could double the weight I'm using and still knock our 4 sets at 8 to 10 reps easily, but I'm going to keep where I'm at for a couple of reps as I want to focus on form before I challenge myself more. I guess for long range goals I should at least split the difference of parallel and where I am going to now.

 

[ShredMN]

I've had fractures of both thoracic and lumbar vertebrae, I'm old, I have osteoathritis and sqautting has done nothing but help those challenges.

I would suggest that your unusual muscle pump is due to a technique flaw. Fix your form and you may be surprised at the results.

What's your opinion on front squats, because I honestly enjoy doing those more than back squats.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Front squats actually activate the quads more than back squats. I just find them difficult to do. At least with a traditional barbell. Now most gyms have a machine that allows front squats to be done easier but I dont like them either. But ya front squats will really bring out the quads. Not so much glutes and hams

 

[A-a-Ron]

Front squats actually activate the quads more than back squats. I just find them difficult to do. At least with a traditional barbell. Now most gyms have a machine that allows front squats to be done easier but I dont like them either. But ya front squats will really bring out the quads. Not so much glutes and hams

Damn! My whole leg training is going to be undergoing some major transformations.

 

[tubesox]

Yeh...so dont lock out on a leg press, this video made me gag http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...man-s-leg-bone-SNAPS-doing-leg-press-gym.html

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Yeh...so dont lock out on a leg press, this video made me gag http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...man-s-leg-bone-SNAPS-doing-leg-press-gym.html

Haha wtf

 

[ShredMN]

I have a pretty strong front squat but my hamstrings are definitely less developed than my quads

 

[tubesox]

I have a pretty strong front squat but my hamstrings are definitely less developed than my quads

This goes for the majority

 

[Dr JIM]

If you can go all the way down and back up with no pain, then do it that way and only that way. Slow progression with the load, strength comes over a lifetime. It's not a sprint, strength is a marathon. Find a good program and stick to it. When you plateau, change it up. The human body is an amazing thing, you will adapt and progress. But you will also have times when you are stuck, how you deal with those times is what determines the type of person you are. A man or a pussy. Don't be a pussy!

All the stuff about below parallel being bad for you only applies to pre-existing injury and limitations and pussies who are scared to squat.

LOL! Although your final comment was preempted by qualifiers, many novices don't understand just how important your provisions are.

Fact is they can often be the difference bt a successful lift and a f...ed up knee or back!

It's critically important squats are done correctly first, and that takes time, patience and perseverance. I'm all for challenging mates to achieve higher goals but to refer to others, that have NOT reached the objectives and competencies of a highly trained lifter as "pussies" is asking for problems IME
Jim

 

[romaleos]

I'm comfortable going down pretty far. The only body issue I have is in my left arm, which obviously doesn't come into play. My knees, hips, ankles and back are all fine. I could double the weight I'm using and still knock our 4 sets at 8 to 10 reps easily, but I'm going to keep where I'm at for a couple of reps as I want to focus on form before I challenge myself more. I guess for long range goals I should at least split the difference of parallel and where I am going to now.

Nothing wrong with mixing the movements in order to develop lagging muscle groups or correct imbalances. But all that comes with time and experience with your body. Again, strength is built over a lifetime. I would advise just to prioritize the movements.

First and foremost you should develop the full ROM squat. It takes 10,000 repetitions to master a motor pattern. Form is not gonna appear overnight.

Secondly, if you are going to program parallel squats, I would highly recommend doing box squats. Research Louie Simmons and Westside Barbell, they wrote the book on box squatting.

Lastly, if you are training for longevity. Program your workouts to break thru plateaus and illicit new adaptations. Don't just do a different exercise because you think you need to "not be hard" on your knees. Not saying go till you injure or break something. I'm just saying you have to be smart with programming and periodization. The truth is there is a fine line between super compensation and injury. It is playing with fire but you have to walk that razors edge because that's is where gainz are.

Never stop learning and thirst for as much knowledge you can obtain thru books and coaches/mentors/lifting partners. You'll get there if you want it bad enough.

 

[romaleos]

LOL! Although your final comment was preempted by qualifiers, many novices don't understand just how important your provisions are.

Fact is they can often be the difference bt a successful lift and a f...ed up knee or back!

It's critically important squats are done correctly first, and that takes time, patience and perseverance. I'm all for challenging mates to achieve higher goals but to refer to others, that have NOT reached the objectives and competencies of a highly trained lifter as "pussies" is asking for problems IME
Jim

Sorry Doc, I'm not saying if you can't do it you're a pussy. An athlete that is limited to above parallel squats but shows up to the gym everyday to give everything they got is the epitome of beast.

I'm speaking to those that can but are afraid because of what others may think of their capability in the beginning or the potential for injury or the unfamiliarity/learning curve.

I'm an advocate for mastery with whatever physical talents the Lord has blessed an athlete with. Whether an elite pro or a housewife getting back into shape, we all can be the best with what we have. Just don't be a pussy!

 

[A-a-Ron]

Nothing wrong with mixing the movements in order to develop lagging muscle groups or correct imbalances. But all that comes with time and experience with your body. Again, strength is built over a lifetime. I would advise just to prioritize the movements.

First and foremost you should develop the full ROM squat. It takes 10,000 repetitions to master a motor pattern. Form is not gonna appear overnight.

Secondly, if you are going to program parallel squats, I would highly recommend doing box squats. Research Louie Simmons and Westside Barbell, they wrote the book on box squatting.

Lastly, if you are training for longevity. Program your workouts to break thru plateaus and illicit new adaptations. Don't just do a different exercise because you think you need to "not be hard" on your knees. Not saying go till you injure or break something. I'm just saying you have to be smart with programming and periodization. The truth is there is a fine line between super compensation and injury. It is playing with fire but you have to walk that razors edge because that's is where gainz are.

Never stop learning and thirst for as much knowledge you can obtain thru books and coaches/mentors/lifting partners. You'll get there if you want it bad enough.

Thanks for the information! It's strange to say, but after 20+ years, I'm finally learning the value of squats. I've always heard it and believed it, but I've never put it into practice.

 

[ShredMN]

What's the best stance to take on a squat for maximal hamstring activation while minimizing the glutes doing a lot of work. My genetics favor packing on a lot of mass in my ass, which isn't terrible but I desperately need more depth in my hams. The thickness is there, but the depth is lacking... And yes, I do SLDLs on leg days

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

The hamstrings come in to play in the negative portion of the squat. The hamstrings cannot push upward with force. Used mostly to control suppression of the weight. Gotta do leg curls and deads for hammy growth

 

[romaleos]

What's the best stance to take on a squat for maximal hamstring activation while minimizing the glutes doing a lot of work. My genetics favor packing on a lot of mass in my ass, which isn't terrible but I desperately need more depth in my hams. The thickness is there, but the depth is lacking... And yes, I do SLDLs on leg days

Sumo stance box squats. Check out Westside Barbell for the correct technique as I haven't really mastered box squats and am reluctant to tell you how to do them. But from experience they are great for hamstring and hip extension development. Outside of leg curls and deads of course.

 

[Kinikuman]

What's your opinion on front squats, because I honestly enjoy doing those more than back squats.

Love them. I really do. For me it is actually a more natural feeling exercise than the back squat. I find they really help me with improving form on my back squat as well. Everything from chest position, foot spacing and angle, breaking points of the hips and knees, and the locking of your core throughout the exercise get a boost from becoming proficient at the front squat. The most important thing, again is to learn to do the exercise correctly to avoid injury. A 20 rep set of front squats done @ 70-80% of 1RM will blow your quads up big time.

 

[A-a-Ron]

Great stuff, guys. I'm going to read the last couple of pages before my next leg day. Very inspiring.

What do you think about splitting leg days between groups?