Sciroxx Labs Testodex Enanthate 250 - GC-MS/MS - 2016-01 - performed by ChemTox via AnabolicLab.com

[canadian mutant]

It's no different than an MDMA dealer sprinkling in some speed or meth to make it hit harder. Complete dirtbag move! Karl is one shady fucker and shouldnt be trusted. Who knows what he puts in his other prodcts....

 

[Gramps]

Who knows what he (Karl) puts in his other prodcts....

Based on his Tren results, air. Over 25% air if I remember right. And it's not on the label either.

 

[intel]

So ive done both my past cycles only using karls products. In fact the log in doing on here is all his products and the test e and the tren a is the exact ones you've guys have posted.
Idk what say and I'm not going to freak out because some of you might know from another thread everything else in my life is in the air. All i know is that on my last cycle i jumped 20+ lbs with amazing results and I'm about to entire the 3rd week on this one and it looks a fucking hit so far.
So on the plus side the quality of the actual product, pinning, and there is no PIP are really good

 

[Millard]

The initial explanation from ChemTox is that there was a "limitation" solely in the analytical method used for detecting testosterone phenylpropionate and this limitation has been definitively solved by a new analytical method.

I am still awaiting a more technical explanation plus raw data from analysis of second preparation of the sample.

 

[Millard]

This is why I respect you. I knew you'd look into it and make it right. Imo, all this does is make me trust Anaboliclab.com even more because when something seems off, you're going to follow it to ground even if it could make AL look bad.

The fact Millard listened and dug for answers just reflects better on him and AL. I'm God damn impressed. I didn't think it would happen and old Karl just caught a tough break he'd have to deal with. Real good to see this from AL team.

And Millard and AL come away from it earning even more respect, imo. A public retraction and clarification didn't have to occur but did. I'm donating again.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

AnabolicLab has procedures in place in the event that the results of the analytical reports are disputed. The accredited lab testing facility is compelled to defend its work. AnabolicLab authorized transparency and disclosure of the methods used by ChemTox to any third party who disputes the results. If a mistake is discovered and acknowledged by the accredited lab, AnabolicLab will publish a correction.

The process worked.

 

[Millard]

Imo, chemtox just didn't do the cross checks it said it did, unfortunately.

I don't know how many times I've seen you cock jockeys reference "accredited lab" over and fucking over in this thread like it means they were the ultimate authority immune from all error, and most important, what occurred here - misrepresentation of work done that wasn't.

At the very least, chemtox will do the labs it represents it has from now on. The cutting corners was not by Karl, it was probably by Crimele at chemtox.

It seemed to me from the start the chemtox cross check never occurred per the pdf's representation and I belive this is what occurred. Crimele cut corners on the testing. Why aren't you truth warriors attacking him?

In the interest of truth, ChemTox made no such admissions. ChemTox reiterated that it tested for all of the anabolic steroids listed in its anabolic steroid screen. It has not been proven otherwise.

ChemTox only acknowledged a limitation in the specific analytical method used to detect testosterone phenylpropionate at the levels presented. ChemTox admitted the limitation and solved the problem with a new analytical method.

Regardless, the fact that ChemTox admitted a flaw or "limitation" in one of its analytical methods will inevitably damage its credibility to some degree.

 

[Millard]

You idiots have no idea how little "accredited lab" means. Crimele did what it takes to get chemtox certified and accredited. It's his small time shop operation. Again, you guys make judgments not really having a fucking clue. Oh oh oh it's an accredited lab. Shit it's gospel then. Wait what does that even mean again? Not much.

I couldn't disagree more. The use of fully accredited and licensed analytical lab testing facilities makes all the difference in the world. This is why:

It means that the accredited lab facility is 100% accountable for the results it publishes. It is professionally and ethically compelled and obligated to defend its reported results. And in the event that a mistake is uncovered, it must be acknowledged, disclosed and reported.

If it were a private or anonymous or unauthorized lab testing facility conducted the analytics, there never would have been the transparency and disclosure necessary to uncover the mistake. This means there never would have been a retraction or a corrected report.

The retraction only happened because AnabolicLab used an accredited/licensed laboratory to perform its analyses.

The fact that ChemTox was government accredited/licensed means everything when it comes to fairness to all parties involved.

Having said that, all accredited/licensed lab testing facilities are not created equal. Some have much more experience and specialization with steroid analytics. Some have much less and consequently may not have sufficiently refined its analytical methods. Lessons learned.

 

[G.I. Bro]

I couldn't disagree more. The use of fully accredited and licensed analytical lab testing facilities makes all the difference in the world. This is why:

It means that the accredited lab facility is 100% accountable for the results it publishes. It is professionally and ethically compelled and obligated to defend its reported results. And in the event that a mistake is uncovered, it must be acknowledged, disclosed and reported.

If it were a private or anonymous or unauthorized lab testing facility conducted the analytics, there never would have been the transparency and disclosure necessary to uncover the mistake. This means there never would have been a retraction or a corrected report.

The retraction only happened because AnabolicLab used an accredited/licensed laboratory to perform its analyses.

The fact that ChemTox was government accredited/licensed means everything when it comes to fairness to all parties involved.

Having said that, all accredited/licensed lab testing facilities are not created equal. Some have much more experience and specialization with steroid analytics. Some have much less and consequently may not have sufficiently refined its analytical methods.

OK Millard, that said, Crimele took your money and represented cross analysis was done by Chemtox that wasn't. So in the end, what did his accreditation do for you or anaboliclab.com? Nothing. False sense of security. Absolutely agree, you must use an accredited lab. But it's still only as good as the people behind it. In this case, it doesn't look good for Chemtox running a laundry list of cross checks as they infered they did when they clearly didn't for TPP.

What is there to disagree with? Accreditation means shit if Crimele or his people are cutting corners. That is my sole point. Nobody would suggest not using an accredited lab. Let's not be silly.

 

[Docd187123]

OK Millard, that said, Crimele took your money and represented cross analysis was done by Chemtox that wasn't. So in the end, what did his accreditation do for you or anaboliclab.com? Nothing. False sense of security. Absolutely agree, you must use an accredited lab. But it's still only as good as the people behind it. In this case, it doesn't look good for Chemtox running a laundry list of cross checks as they infered they did when they clearly didn't for TPP.

What is there to disagree with? Accreditation means shit if Crimele or his people are cutting corners. That is my sole point. Nobody would suggest not using an accredited lab. Let's not be silly.

It's funny you keep "spinning your wheels" to use your words. Nobody said a corner was cut, only a possible issue with the technology used to do the testing. Derp derp. Once again, fuck yourself very much and have a wonderful day

 

[Wunderpus]

Thus far the serums and IGF-1's have been good, but the only true lab tests that exist are from Karl himself; so obviously they are not independent. However, that is all about to change. We are doing a HGH Lab Testing project over at Pro Muscle and Karl is one of the sponsors who has stepped up to the plate and volunteered to pay for his own testing and therefore will be tested shortly in the first round. We are actually using 2 different labs with 2 different methodologies and testing for content and purity. The samples that will be sent to the labs will be coming from trusted members who recently received orders from that sponsor, where the sponsor did not know that they were going to be used for any kind of testing.

So, my initial thoughts is that Karl would not be investing his own money and participating in this if he didn't have some strong belief in what the results will be.

Not to sidetrack this thread, but will the labs KNOW that their products are being tested? One of the advantages of AL is that the sources don't know the products they just sent out are going to be tested, until all of the samples have been received by AL.

Will this be the case?

 

[Millard]

Crimele took your money and represented cross analysis was done by Chemtox that wasn't

If you have proof, please provide it.

In the interest of truth, ChemTox made no such admissions. ChemTox reiterated that it tested for all of the anabolic steroids listed in its anabolic steroid screen. It has not been proven otherwise.

ChemTox only acknowledged a limitation in the specific analytical method used to detect testosterone phenylpropionate at the levels presented. ChemTox admitted the limitation and solved the problem with a new analytical method.

 

[Millard]

@Millard Baker Is there an update on the raw data as well? If they detected it, it should be present in the data, and displayed on the plots.

ChemTox just delivered the raw data. The AnabolicLab website has been updated here with the new information. The data has also been included with my post as a PDFattachment.

This is really unprofessional and surprising from an accredited lab. It concerns me regarding the other tests performed by Chemtox and how this reflects on the AnabolicLab program. I know AnabolicLab is not at fault for the mistakes of the laboratory. However, the program is built on the basis of reliable and infallible data provided by these labs. Questions need to be answered and the situation addressed correctly for the integrity of the program. If there is a solution to prevent this in the future, this also needs to be addressed.

ChemTox's technical explanation of the mistake:

"Testosterone Phenylpropionate is the last compound eluted in the analytical method for determination of anabolic steroids and esters in substances. It is also the less sensitive compound of our screening.

"In order to be in the linearity range of the GC-MS for the determination of testosterone enanthate in sample 15-09429, it was initially diluted 1 for 10000 before analysis.

"With this dilution, Testosterone Phenylpropionate was not detected.

"After that, we analyse the sample with only a 1 for 100 dilution in order to confirm the presence or not of Testosterone Phenylpropionate.

"From now, screening samples will be analysed with a high and a low dilution."

 

[G.I. Bro]

If you believe that excuse, fine. I respect your opinion. However, the representation is that they have a specific limitation as to TPP analytic analysis (that somehow doesn't apply to other esters?) which caused this oversight. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It couldn't detect 60+mg of tpp? But could detect trace remnant of say, another testosterone ester or another compound?

The simplest solution is usually the correct one (the razor). So, that said, what's most plausible to me is that chemtox represented certain cross checks were done that didn't get done. Maybe this is not the case, but the prior excuse seems off to me. You can't offer that service in the first place if it's limited enough not to be able to detect 60mg of another ester (or even more fishy, only as to tpp). Of course, chemtox/Crimele would not admit this. He would explain it away with some excuse like he gave you (specific analytic limitation as to tpp, we'll fix it next time with a procedure that's not limited)... Lol. Cmon know. I think you're smarter Millard. Maybe it's true, but I'm not buying.

/devil's advocate

 

[rpbb]

OK Millard, that said, Crimele took your money and represented cross analysis was done by Chemtox that wasn't. So in the end, what did his accreditation do for you or anaboliclab.com? Nothing. False sense of security. Absolutely agree, you must use an accredited lab. But it's still only as good as the people behind it. In this case, it doesn't look good for Chemtox running a laundry list of cross checks as they infered they did when they clearly didn't for TPP.

What is there to disagree with? Accreditation means shit if Crimele or his people are cutting corners. That is my sole point. Nobody would suggest not using an accredited lab. Let's not be silly.

yet it was ok for karl to mislabel his gear and lie to people

 

[Millard]

If you believe that excuse, fine. I respect your opinion. However, the representation is that they have a specific limitation as to TPP analytic analysis (that somehow doesn't apply to other esters?) which caused this oversight. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It couldn't detect 60+mg of tpp? But could detect trace remnant of say, another testosterone ester or another compound?

The simplest solution is usually the correct one (the razor). So, that said, what's most plausible to me is that chemtox represented certain cross checks were done that didn't get done. Maybe this is not the case, but the prior excuse seems off to me. You can't offer that service in the first place if it's limited enough not to be able to detect 60mg of another ester (or even more fishy, only as to tpp). Of course, chemtox/Crimele would not admit this. He would explain it away with some excuse like he gave you (specific analytic limitation as to tpp , we'll fix it next time)... Lol

/devil's advocate

As an attorney, you know very well that it's not what you think, it's what you can prove.

Can you prove it? If you can, it would have ramifications far beyond a this single test. It would be scandalous. Would ChemTox risk losing its accreditation/licensure over a couple hundred euros?

 

[rpbb]

As an attorney, you know very well that it's not what you think, it's what you can prove.

Can you prove it? If you can, it would have ramifications far beyond a this single test. It would be scandalous. Would ChemTox risk losing its accreditation/licensure over a couple hundred euros?

is GI an attorney. that explains his talking bullshit and complete disregard for the truth. the more he talks, the more I realize anyone would have to be an idiot to buy from karl

 

[muscle96ss]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but will the labs KNOW that their products are being tested? One of the advantages of AL is that the sources don't know the products they just sent out are going to be tested, until all of the samples have been received by AL.

Will this be the case?

I am not sure I understand the question in terms of the meaning of the word "labs". Are you referring to the "labs" as in the labs doing the actual testing or referring to the sponsors. In either event, the labs that are doing the testing will have no idea what samples are from who as they will be labeled in code to prevent any bias. In addition, they will not know what the actual total content of each vial is supposed to be.

Now from the sponsors end, the samples that will be sent to the lab will from trusted members who have already received an anonymous order from that sponsor, where the sponsor did not know that his order was going to be used for testing. In other words, TP has 3 different GH's he wants tested; greys, blacks with logo without batch number, and blacks with logo with batch number. So we will find members that the forum agrees are non-biased and trusted members, who already have these in possession from an anonymous order. All the samples will be sent to RP so he can verify they are what they are supposed to be, and then he will code them and send them all out to both the respective labs. Hope that answers what you are asking.

 

[Gramps]

is GI an attorney. that explains his talking bullshit and complete disregard for the truth. the more he talks, the more I realize anyone would have to be an idiot to buy from karl

He claimed he was. And he's so intent on "proving a point" he can't shut the fuck up resulting in more and more lost sales to the person he's defending. Wonderful fella right there. ...and he'll pop in soon to once again state he's not standing up for anyone - many pages here prove otherwise.

 

[G.I. Bro]

As an attorney, you know very well that it's not what you think, it's what you can prove.

Can you prove it? If you can, it would have ramifications far beyond a this single test. It would be scandalous. Would ChemTox risk losing its accreditation/licensure over a couple hundred euros?

Fair point about his risk for such a misrepresentation. I agree. But don't you think the excuse about there being some vague testing limitation as to tpp, specifically, sounds odd? Does to me...

And no, can't prove shit. I couldn't have proved what Karl alleged was even true. But I'm damn glad you have the moral fortitude to at least hear the questions and have looked into it. Posting the formal retraction on AL and here was stand up. I expected nothing less, if you go back into the first few posts I made I said I had faith you'd get to the bottom of it, even in it was empty allegations. As I said, all the fuss does benefit the community and AL because in means such things won't occur in the future. Chemtox will either dot all their "I's" in the future or you'll find another lab. Either way, the reliability is improved.

 

[rpbb]

Fair point about his risk for such a misrepresentation. I agree. But don't you think the excuse about there being some vague testing limitation as to tpp, specifically, sounds odd? Does to me...

And no, can't prove shit. I couldn't have proved what Karl alleged was even true. But I'm damn glad you have the moral fortitude to at least hear the questions and have looked into it. Posting the formal retraction on AL and here was stand up. I expected nothing less, if you go back into the first few posts I made I said I had faith you'd get to the bottom of it, even in it was empty allegations. As I said, all the fuss does benefit the community and AL because in means such things won't occur in the future. Chemtox will either dot all their "I's" in the future or you'll find another lab. Either way, the reliability is improved.

when are we going to get a formal apology from karl for selling mislabeled gear