Deca Dick / Nandrolone Issues

[EazyE]

This is a good read I found. Interesting....

Nandrolone 'deca dick' real cause and potential remedy + other information
u/MezDez1y
As I mentioned earlier in /r/peds, deca dick is not due to prolactin, is not due to estrogen, is not due to progesterone, it isnt because it is 19nor

1. Nandrolone activates progesterone at 1/20th of the affinity of progesterone, thereby acts as an antagonist in most cases.
   
   
2. Nandrolone has Dopamine modulation effect, similar but different to Trenbolone.
   
   
3. Nandrolone through reward pathway modulation, can attenuate dopaminergic response.
   
   
4. DHT is not a by product of Nandrolone. DHT can be further metabolised to Neurosteroids which have potent antianxiety and antidepressant effect. DHN does have similar metabolites but lack these pharmacology.
   
   
5. Nandrolone and testosterone, both exogenously, in studies increase prolactin equally at equal doses (if someone can find this study I looked at awhile ago, would be appreciated).
   
   
6. Nandrolone produces enough E1 that can be converted to E2 naturally by the body. Optimal doses to match natural levels would be around 300mg/wk.
   
   
7. Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone.
   
   
8. Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.
   
   
9. DHT antagonises Estrogen in androgenic tissues and other places such as breast tissue. The lack of androgenic stimulation via DHN causes gyno symptoms to occur even with normal estrogen levels (NO it isn't from progesterone, or prolactin).
   
   
10. DHN can displace DHT and can partially activate the androgen receptors in androgenic tissues such as prostate and hair follicles, this can actually reverse prostate hypertrophy and cause hair regrowth.
    

• The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.

• What is actually causing 'deca dick'

1. lack of neurosteroid production from DHT
2. lack of penile androgen receptor stimulation AND brain androgen receptor stimulation
3. Dopaminergic response issues

• What is not causing 'deca dick'

1. not running testosterone or enough testosterone with Nandrolone
2. Progesterone
3. Estrogen
4. Prolactin

So how do we solve this issue? Im against running testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!

run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)

But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as fuck, you'll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to fuck 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).

Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).

So if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.

Some interesting sources

[1] Sub-chronic nandrolone treatment modifies neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats - ScienceDirect

"Sub-chronic nandrolone treatment modifies neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats"

• "Analysis of the behavioral data suggests that effects of the amphetamine and MDMA are dose-dependently attenuated by AAS-treatment, paralleling DA results. In conclusion, the results of this study show that AAS-pre-treatment is able to modulate the reward-related neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and MDMA."

[2] Error - Cookies Turned Off

"Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on Gene Expression in Endocrine Systems Related to the Adverse Effects of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" - This one is very interesting, it shows what enzyme systems Nandrolone downregulates and which ones are upregulated. Very very important information

[3] Prolonged in vivo administration of testosterone-enanthate, the widely used and abused anabolic androgenic steroid, disturbs prolactin and cAMP signaling in Leydig cells of adult rats - ScienceDirect

"Prolonged in vivo administration of testosterone-enanthate, the widely used and abused anabolic androgenic steroid, disturbs prolactin and cAMP signaling in Leydig cells of adult rats" - "The results showed that prolonged (10-weeks) intramuscular administration of testosterone-enanthate, in clinically relevant dose, significantly increased prolactin"

[4] Error - Cookies Turned Off

"The anabolic-androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects the density of dopamine receptors in the male rat brain"

[5] Increased dopamine transporter density in the male rat brain following chronic nandrolone decanoate administration - ScienceDirect

"Increased dopamine transporter density in the male rat brain following chronic nandrolone decanoate administration"

[6] The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats - ScienceDirect

"The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats"

Just some calculations.

lets take the following into consideration.

1. Nandrolone is a weak substrate for SHBG. So, overall, it is a much better anabolic than testosterone, even if you take the 125:37 vs 100:100 profile into consideration. therefore, there is more nandrolone per mg exogenously administered 'free' to bind to androgen receptors, than is testosterone per mg exogenously administered.
   
   
2. Nandrolone aromatises at the rate of 20% of Testosterone.
   

Lets say, we produce equivalent to 70mg/wk Testosterone enanthate. Taking the molecular mass of the ester into account, you would need an optimal 500-600mg NPP (or deca) per week to produce a decent amount of estrogen (but still within limits) - remember, you need neither high or low amount of estrogen for optimal mental and dick health - we also have to take into consideration the fact of how the androgenic potency of an anabolic would also act to oppose estrogen at the estrogen receptor.

Those who have done DECA only cycles and have complained about deca-dick - here is the only and only reason:

• You didnt front load deca. so what occured is that the first 4-5 weeks whilst the ester is peaking in the blood, you arent getting sufficient blood androgen levels (levels not high enough to provide optimal androgen and estrogen signalling).
  
  
• and/or you arent taking suffice dose. If you arent taking testosterone with your nandrolone, it makes logical sense to use more nandrolone (500-600mg/wk(
  

Best method is to front load... or just take NPP

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comicsansisunderused
Contributor
1y

I'm liking these guides you're posting. It's real world stuff.


1

ItsWobble
1y

Amazing shit my man.

 

[penche]

Run finasteride? Lol have you read the horrid side effects on it killing your dick. No thanks

 

[Mdrock98]

Fuck deca

 

[Iron Frenchie]

I read this over a year ago on reddit. You should check out the other stuff u/mezdez has written. It’s pretty interesting stuff.

Someone bald should run some finasteride with nandrolone and see if it’s true

 

[EazyE]

I read this over a year ago on reddit. You should check out the other stuff u/mezdez has written. It’s pretty interesting stuff.

Someone bald should run some finasteride with nandrolone and see if it’s true

Yeah for sure some interesting stuff to read over there. I liked this one in particular as there are so many other opinions floating around as to Deca side effects or what is perceived as Deca sides. Lots of questions always surrounding Deca use in a cycle and what ancillaries to run with it and why....

 

[Weights]

I never had an issue with deca. Always kept e2 in control

 

[bambam333]

Run finasteride? Lol have you read the horrid side effects on it killing your dick. No thanks

Yea I’m more afraid of finasteride syndrome than deca dick any day

 

[johntt44]

Yea I’m more afraid of finasteride syndrome than deca dick any day

Hmm, let's see? Hair or dick?

 

[johntt44]

I almost said I choose dick. Caught myself though! Phewww!

 

[Mdrock98]

I almost said I choose dick. Caught myself though! Phewww!

Lmfao

 

[Human_backhoe]

Finasteride syndrome.... FOR LIFE. Or last a little longer in the sack for a few months?

Fuck that!

 

[Human_backhoe]

I almost said I choose dick. Caught myself though! Phewww!

As long as you call no homo..... But hey it's 2019 and no one gives a fuck anymore anyway.

 

[ironwill1951]

alot of studies on rats,
also a lot of bro science..

 

[Old]

This is a good read I found. Interesting....

Nandrolone 'deca dick' real cause and potential remedy + other information
u/MezDez1y
As I mentioned earlier in /r/peds, deca dick is not due to prolactin, is not due to estrogen, is not due to progesterone, it isnt because it is 19nor

1. Nandrolone activates progesterone at 1/20th of the affinity of progesterone, thereby acts as an antagonist in most cases.
   
   
2. Nandrolone has Dopamine modulation effect, similar but different to Trenbolone.
   
   
3. Nandrolone through reward pathway modulation, can attenuate dopaminergic response.
   
   
4. DHT is not a by product of Nandrolone. DHT can be further metabolised to Neurosteroids which have potent antianxiety and antidepressant effect. DHN does have similar metabolites but lack these pharmacology.
   
   
5. Nandrolone and testosterone, both exogenously, in studies increase prolactin equally at equal doses (if someone can find this study I looked at awhile ago, would be appreciated).
   
   
6. Nandrolone produces enough E1 that can be converted to E2 naturally by the body. Optimal doses to match natural levels would be around 300mg/wk.
   
   
7. Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone.
   
   
8. Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.
   
   
9. DHT antagonises Estrogen in androgenic tissues and other places such as breast tissue. The lack of androgenic stimulation via DHN causes gyno symptoms to occur even with normal estrogen levels (NO it isn't from progesterone, or prolactin).
   
   
10. DHN can displace DHT and can partially activate the androgen receptors in androgenic tissues such as prostate and hair follicles, this can actually reverse prostate hypertrophy and cause hair regrowth.

• The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.

• What is actually causing 'deca dick'

1. lack of neurosteroid production from DHT
2. lack of penile androgen receptor stimulation AND brain androgen receptor stimulation
3. Dopaminergic response issues

• What is not causing 'deca dick'

1. not running testosterone or enough testosterone with Nandrolone
2. Progesterone
3. Estrogen
4. Prolactin

So how do we solve this issue? Im against running testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!

run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)

But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as fuck, you'll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to fuck 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).

Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).

So if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.

Some interesting sources

[1] Sub-chronic nandrolone treatment modifies neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats - ScienceDirect

"Sub-chronic nandrolone treatment modifies neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats"

• "Analysis of the behavioral data suggests that effects of the amphetamine and MDMA are dose-dependently attenuated by AAS-treatment, paralleling DA results. In conclusion, the results of this study show that AAS-pre-treatment is able to modulate the reward-related neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and MDMA."

[2] Error - Cookies Turned Off

"Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on Gene Expression in Endocrine Systems Related to the Adverse Effects of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" - This one is very interesting, it shows what enzyme systems Nandrolone downregulates and which ones are upregulated. Very very important information

[3] Prolonged in vivo administration of testosterone-enanthate, the widely used and abused anabolic androgenic steroid, disturbs prolactin and cAMP signaling in Leydig cells of adult rats - ScienceDirect

"Prolonged in vivo administration of testosterone-enanthate, the widely used and abused anabolic androgenic steroid, disturbs prolactin and cAMP signaling in Leydig cells of adult rats" - "The results showed that prolonged (10-weeks) intramuscular administration of testosterone-enanthate, in clinically relevant dose, significantly increased prolactin"

[4] Error - Cookies Turned Off

"The anabolic-androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects the density of dopamine receptors in the male rat brain"

[5] Increased dopamine transporter density in the male rat brain following chronic nandrolone decanoate administration - ScienceDirect

"Increased dopamine transporter density in the male rat brain following chronic nandrolone decanoate administration"

[6] The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats - ScienceDirect

"The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats"

Just some calculations.

lets take the following into consideration.

1. Nandrolone is a weak substrate for SHBG. So, overall, it is a much better anabolic than testosterone, even if you take the 125:37 vs 100:100 profile into consideration. therefore, there is more nandrolone per mg exogenously administered 'free' to bind to androgen receptors, than is testosterone per mg exogenously administered.
   
   
2. Nandrolone aromatises at the rate of 20% of Testosterone.

Lets say, we produce equivalent to 70mg/wk Testosterone enanthate. Taking the molecular mass of the ester into account, you would need an optimal 500-600mg NPP (or deca) per week to produce a decent amount of estrogen (but still within limits) - remember, you need neither high or low amount of estrogen for optimal mental and dick health - we also have to take into consideration the fact of how the androgenic potency of an anabolic would also act to oppose estrogen at the estrogen receptor.

Those who have done DECA only cycles and have complained about deca-dick - here is the only and only reason:

• You didnt front load deca. so what occured is that the first 4-5 weeks whilst the ester is peaking in the blood, you arent getting sufficient blood androgen levels (levels not high enough to provide optimal androgen and estrogen signalling).
  
  
• and/or you arent taking suffice dose. If you arent taking testosterone with your nandrolone, it makes logical sense to use more nandrolone (500-600mg/wk(

Best method is to front load... or just take NPP

Share26


10

26 Comments sorted byBest

Post is archived
comicsansisunderused
Contributor
1y

I'm liking these guides you're posting. It's real world stuff.


1

ItsWobble
1y

Amazing shit my man.

Well, since finasteride reduced DHT as well as DHN and the article says part of the problem is DHN displacing DHT ... how exactly does that make sense? Does finasteride work much more against DHN?

 

[Turbo charged]

I will just pop cialis

 

[Blange89]

Well, since finasteride reduced DHT as well as DHN and the article says part of the problem is DHN displacing DHT ... how exactly does that make sense? Does finasteride work much more against DHN?

That's what I was thinking as well

 

[EazyE]

Well, since finasteride reduced DHT as well as DHN and the article says part of the problem is DHN displacing DHT ... how exactly does that make sense? Does finasteride work much more against DHN?

Agreed. Like I said interesting read...

 

[Robfromga]

So everyone is different right?
I run the shit out if npp. I love it. 400-500mg with 500-600mg test. Probably run it for too long. I do run everything with mast e or proviron. .25 arimadex e3d keeps my e2 good along with b6. No Ed issues.

I am running 400-500npp with 1.2 test just to see how we do.

 

[thinman]

I’d have to take this with a grain of salt. Like already mentioned, everyone is different.

I’ve ran NPP within 100mg of my test dose (more test than NPP) for up to 10 weeks and literally couldn’t keep my dick down. Felt great as well.