Water Retention HGH

[Dirthand]

is it this one? @Thegodofwar

Absorption of human growth hormone injected subcutaneously and intramuscularly in growth deficient dwarfs - Pediatric Research

Hunan growth hormone (HGH) is commonly administrated by i.m. injections. The high purity of the present HGH preparations makes s.c. administration an attractive alternative enabling self-administration. In this study time courses of plasma HGH after s.c and i.m.injections of highly purified HGH...

www.nature.com

That study does not back up what he says.. actually it says the opposite. Also it's just comparing sc vs Im. Injection.

 

[Thegodofwar]

Maybe gh isn't for you

EOD GH injections are better!..... study says

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The present study was based on the hypotheses that 1) growth deceleration after withdrawal of hGH therapy in idiopathic short stature is due to tolerance at the target organ level; 2) tolerance is due to the unphysiological pharmacokinetics of daily-injected hGH; and 3) alternate day hGH therapy will allow for alternate day physiological GH secretion and prevent tolerance during therapy and growth deceleration thereafter. To investigate these hypotheses, the present study enrolled patients with idiopathic short stature for either daily or alternate day therapy schemes and compared their growth responses over 2 yr of hGH therapy and after its withdrawal

That’s one of the studies but there are a couple more that show alternate day therapy is equal to the Ed therapy for all the benefits with less side effects.

 

[Thegodofwar]

Respectfully, I would avoid HCTZ. It depletes the body of potassium, which can lead to heart rhythm issues such as Flutter and A-Fib. I found this out first-hand several years ago.

That’s why you supplement with potassium
Hctz more can cause pancreatitis (had it twice from regular usage of this shit drug) and would avoid its fairly long acting for a diuretic
Best is furosemide (Lasix) but still at the dosages to get rid of water would probably need potassium.
Don’t touch spironolactone unless you want big double d breasts lol

 

[jdubzzz44]

12.5 mg once per day. Went into A-flutter with 150+ bpm. Waited a day and half hoping it would resolve but eventually landed in the ER. The first and second line drugs failed to budge it so after 8 hours or so they sent me in for cardioversion, which fixed it. The rest of my heart is healthy/normal as were all my hlood markers (I was just on my TRT dose at the time).

Two cardiologists, including the guy that did the procedure, told me to stop HCTZ. I did and havent had a problem since...

I had afib in 2020 and had to be put to sleep to have an electrical cardioversion to bring my heart back to normal rhythm. The day it happened I was working outside in south florida in the summer heat drenched in sweat and within a couple of hours drank a whole gallon of plain water. My theory was by sweating so much and only drinking plain water I flushed my body of electrolytes. The doctors seemed clueless about this but it’s what I believe happened.

Anyways since then I have always supplemented high amounts of sodium and potassium when doing anything strenuous and have not had any issues with afib in over 4 years. Also now when running heavy cycles I use telmisartan/hctz without any issues because I believe it is because I keep my electrolyte balance very high

 

[OldGHGuy]

EOD GH injections are better!..... study says

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The present study was based on the hypotheses that 1) growth deceleration after withdrawal of hGH therapy in idiopathic short stature is due to tolerance at the target organ level; 2) tolerance is due to the unphysiological pharmacokinetics of daily-injected hGH; and 3) alternate day hGH therapy will allow for alternate day physiological GH secretion and prevent tolerance during therapy and growth deceleration thereafter. To investigate these hypotheses, the present study enrolled patients with idiopathic short stature for either daily or alternate day therapy schemes and compared their growth responses over 2 yr of hGH therapy and after its withdrawal

That’s one of the studies but there are a couple more that show alternate day therapy is equal to the Ed therapy for all the benefits with less side effects.

Not exactly. The study is referring to growth in children and pre-pubescents in the 2-year period following cessation of treatment and goes on to summarize:

"Although alternate day GH administration is somewhat less growth stimulating than daily therapy, this is more than compensated by the prevention of growth deceleration during the 2 yr after stopping GH administration."

So unless you are 1) a still growing child or 2) planning to stop GH for 2 years following 2 years of treatment, this study really doesnt apply.

 

[Thegodofwar]

Not exactly. The study is referring to growth in children and pre-pubescents in the 2-year period following cessation of treatment and goes on to summarize:

"Although alternate day GH administration is somewhat less growth stimulating than daily therapy, this is more than compensated by the prevention of growth deceleration during the 2 yr after stopping GH administration."

So unless you are 1) a still growing child or 2) planning to stop GH for 2 years following 2 years of treatment, this study really doesnt apply.

No not only this study there are many look into it
This is one that has a bunch of studies that show this grouped together

 

[Thegodofwar]

Not exactly. The study is referring to growth in children and pre-pubescents in the 2-year period following cessation of treatment and goes on to summarize:

"Although alternate day GH administration is somewhat less growth stimulating than daily therapy, this is more than compensated by the prevention of growth deceleration during the 2 yr after stopping GH administration."

So unless you are 1) a still growing child or 2) planning to stop GH for 2 years following 2 years of treatment, this study really doesnt apply.

Growth hormone therapy in GH-deficient adults: continuous vs alternate-days treatment - PubMed

In the present report, we have compared 12 months of rhGH therapy given daily (D) at the beginning and then on alternate days (A) to 20 subjects with severe adult-onset GH deficiency (GHD). Aim of the study was to establish whether the lower frequency injection regimen is as effective as the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is one
This is in adults more relevant to yourself

 

[OldGHGuy]

Growth hormone therapy in GH-deficient adults: continuous vs alternate-days treatment - PubMed

In the present report, we have compared 12 months of rhGH therapy given daily (D) at the beginning and then on alternate days (A) to 20 subjects with severe adult-onset GH deficiency (GHD). Aim of the study was to establish whether the lower frequency injection regimen is as effective as the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is one
This is in adults more relevant to yourself

More relevant, yes. At the end of the day, discover what works for you and go with that protocol.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Growth hormone therapy in GH-deficient adults: continuous vs alternate-days treatment - PubMed

In the present report, we have compared 12 months of rhGH therapy given daily (D) at the beginning and then on alternate days (A) to 20 subjects with severe adult-onset GH deficiency (GHD). Aim of the study was to establish whether the lower frequency injection regimen is as effective as the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is one
This is in adults more relevant to yourself

This study showed no difference given same weekly total dose. More favorable compliance because those patients didn't like injecting every day.

I don't mind injecting GH every day (even twice a day).

So far, no studies showing superiority of EOD vs ED in efficacy (body comp, IGF-1, etc.).

 

[songsofpyramids]

I don't mind injecting GH every day (even twice a day).

I went back to twice a day cause I think it feels best and ALA and eating clean keep my blood sugar cool.

 

[MadaFacor]

Personally I love 2 - 2.2 IU. I'm older than you though and I don't bodybuild so I'm not familiar with higher dose use. If you feel like it sometime just titrate up and find where your ceiling is for side effects.

Wait.....WTF....your really influential on this board and you don't body build. Shit, guess I am asleep at the wheel but what the fuck? Did you retire or something? Maybe used to be into hypertrophy and are now taking a siesta? Not busting balls, genuinely interested in the back story?

 

[UncleBuns]

Wait.....WTF....your really influential on this board and you don't body build. Shit, guess I am asleep at the wheel but what the fuck? Did you retire or something? Maybe used to be into hypertrophy and are now taking a siesta? Not busting balls, genuinely interested in the back story?

Lol. Not sure about being really influential. I'm just a dude. Older now but very passionate about athletics. I'm a small guy, way smaller than most of here. Power/strength to weight ratio matters a lot for me. Seasonally I do some very specific hypertrophy but these periods are short and it's quite minor compared to a BB. Honestly what I'm into is pretty far away from BB but there's no great place to discuss a lot of the topics like PEDs out there unless it's BB related. I've learned a ton from BB and power lifting world. A lot on PEDs and training. Most of my training information I get from different sources though.

I know it seems like I'm being cagey but for different reasons it's very important I stay anonymous so I don't go into too much specifics on these things. I'm not a professional or paid for my athletic pursuits. Basically I'm a smaller guy who tries to Ken as little total body weight as possible and just be strong as hell, mobile, powerful, and low BF. I do a good amount of training in the year including with barbells and kettlebells and such but a lot of my training involves integrating physical training with skill acquisition.

 

[Sector]

I went back to twice a day cause I think it feels best and ALA and eating clean keep my blood sugar cool.

same I was doing split doses, then went to BOLO night dose, now I'm back to split dosages. just feels better having constantly elevated levels

I notice some slight water retention on the TP mauves, but my test e dose is also higher too which is a factor. Been growing like a weed the last two weeks. Can only imagine what some low dose slin would do...

 

[Sector]

Lol. Not sure about being really influential. I'm just a dude. Older now but very passionate about athletics. I'm a small guy, way smaller than most of here. Power/strength to weight ratio matters a lot for me. Seasonally I do some very specific hypertrophy but these periods are short and it's quite minor compared to a BB. Honestly what I'm into is pretty far away from BB but there's no great place to discuss a lot of the topics like PEDs out there unless it's BB related. I've learned a ton from BB and power lifting world. A lot on PEDs and training. Most of my training information I get from different sources though.

I know it seems like I'm being cagey but for different reasons it's very important I stay anonymous so I don't go into too much specifics on these things. I'm not a professional or paid for my athletic pursuits. Basically I'm a smaller guy who tries to Ken as little total body weight as possible and just be strong as hell, mobile, powerful, and low BF. I do a good amount of training in the year including with barbells and kettlebells and such but a lot of my training involves integrating physical training with skill acquisition.

Nothing wrong with that man. The important thing is that you're in there training, moving, etc. (whatever your training style may be).

There's this 67 year old dude that goes to my gym that I look up to. Dudes always there, always working hard, busting his ass, strong as hell even at his age. I'd say he can even hang with most of the 20 something year olds (maybe not strength wise but endurance wise). That's the type of dude I want to be one day, to be knocking on the door of my 70s and still training (if I make it that long, fingers crossed)

 

[UncleBuns]

Nothing wrong with that man. The important thing is that you're in there training, moving, etc. (whatever your training style may be).

There's this 67 year old dude that goes to my gym that I look up to. Dudes always there, always working hard, busting his ass, strong as hell even at his age. I'd say he can even hang with most of the 20 something year olds (maybe not strength wise but endurance wise). That's the type of dude I want to be one day, to be knocking on the door of my 70s and still training (if I make it that long, fingers crossed)

I've been physically active for a long time. The training I do and performance periods are on par time and energy wise with BB. So I find commonanility in that aspect. Size wise I my body is WAY different than a BB and that's ideal for me. Any extra weight is a hindrance. I've crafted it to be used for a different purpose. Having physical pursuits that require a ton of time, attention, and energy keep me sane.

AAS use by athletes is quite different from BB use, but you guys are the most open about it and I've learned A TON from the BB community. A lot about nutrition as well. AAS is very useful for athletes, especially when you are in your 40's like me or older. The ability to build strength, hypertrophy when needed, and most importantly for me recover faster so I can put in more work and do more training is wild. A big limiting factor for me is how much training I can recover from. AAS allows way more high quality volume to be done, aka skill practice which is more important than pure strength at this point. That volume adds up big over time amounts to much greater and faster advancement in my pursuits.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Respectfully, I would avoid HCTZ. It depletes the body of potassium, which can lead to heart rhythm issues such as Flutter and A-Fib. I found this out first-hand several years ago.

Interestingly, all of my levels were normal at the time - potassium, magnesium, etc. so they really didn't have a good reason for the episode

If the mechanism by which HCTZ could cause heart rhythm disturbances is potassium depletion, and your potassium at the time of this incident was normal, blaming HCTZ and warning people away from it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[OldGHGuy]

If the mechanism by which HCTZ could cause heart rhythm disturbances is potassium depletion, and your potassium at the time of this incident was normal, blaming HCTZ and warning people away from it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Except that two cardiologists warned me about HCTZ and took me off HCTZ. And one blood test (and even one incident) does not a trend make...take from my story what you will and make your own decisions. That's the point of sharing these experiences

 

[Thegodofwar]

Except that two cardiologists warned me about HCTZ and took me off HCTZ. And one blood test (and even one incident) does not a trend make...take from my story what you will and make your own decisions. That's the point of sharing these experiences

More than likely their “normal” was the your abnormal
I get AFib with my potassium at 3.5 and they consider it normal for the the population but if you are a muscular individual it’s very low
You cannot take HCTZ without proper supplementation with span k (potassium) and magnesium(this spares the potassium in your body well)
HCTZ is good but it can cause nasty side effects like glaucoma and also pancreatitis.
What dosage where you on at the time ?

 

[OldGHGuy]

More than likely their “normal” was the your abnormal
I get AFib with my potassium at 3.5 and they consider it normal for the the population but if you are a muscular individual it’s very low
You cannot take HCTZ without proper supplementation with span k (potassium) and magnesium(this spares the potassium in your body well)
HCTZ is good but it can cause nasty side effects like glaucoma and also pancreatitis.
What dosage where you on at the time ?

12.5 mg

 

[Thegodofwar]

12.5 mg

That dosage is fine I am on 80mgs Lasix and 25 mgs Hctz every day and my electrolytes are fine if I take my span k in the morning and night (only if you are not taking Ace inhibitors or ARBS) as they can cause you to retain potassium and that would be a literal shit show